Job Cut Status Archives2 !
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Comment 12/31/08: Does anyone know what happens when a supplemental employee is laid off? Would she get any severance? I mean, I'd give IBM two weeks notice if I was'd be nice if they did the same. -Wondering-
Comment 12/31/08: Heard from a reliable source today. Jan 22 is the date. 20% headcount cut (it was not specified to me if this figure is WW or US only), SW will be hit hardest. -Concerned-
Comment 12/31/08: In regards to retirement - 54 and bridge with 14 years but 52 with 26 years, the last two ratings 2+ and get screwed. 2 years younger but gave the company 12 more years. Someone needs to fix this crap. Go Alliance!!! -screwed for sure-
Comment 12/31/08: to -just1waiting- Don't take Cringley too seriously. He's been wrong more than he's been right, especially when it comes to IBM predictions. He most likely has no reliable inside information on IBM and just feasts off the rumor-mill. I noticed that he made no predictions for lay off numbers. Remember back in early/mid 2007 he claimed 150K layoffs at IBM by year end 2007 - that never happened. Interesting reading, but remember, it's all just a prediction from ONE guy who's batting less than .500 with IBM related predictions... -waiting_for_the_axe-
Comment 12/31/08: To: -dia- "Presently guys are working there asses off to pay for the pension benefits of the 200000 retirees who ritired earlier."
I think you are mistaken. The money the 200000 retirees are receiving is money that was put into the pension during the time that we were working our asses off. You, on the other hand when your time to retire comes, will bear the brunt of what IBM has become. I feel for you. -Retiree-

Comment 12/30/08: The upcomming layoffs in 1Q09 will be an excellent time to prune the US workforce in the name of a poor US economy. In reality, companies like IBM will take advantage of the opportunity to reduce US workforce under the pretense of a bad economy instead of the real reason: Outsourcing. Just think of the heat that IBM would catch if it cut jobs during prosperous times only to turn up the employment in lower cost countries. Watch the RIF numbers by country during 1Q09 and this will tell the real story. -xbeemr-
Comment 12/30/08: To -concerned BTVer- What can I do to protect MY job? That about sums it up. Answer. NOTHING. What WE can do to protect OUR jobs is organize into a Union. Every day that passes with no action by YOU is another day too late to save anything. Wake up and smell the pink slips people. The look-busy-and-no-one-will-notice does not work when IBM is dumping entire divisions. Have you discussed a Union with your co- workers? Have you handed out flyers? Have you done anything more, then try to hide under your desk when a big bad manager walks by? It sounds like you already figure you're gone so what do you have to lose? If nothing else, they may respect you as they walk you out the door; because you didn't just take it like a sheep. I suspect either way you will be walking out the door, so why go meekly? This goes for all who are sitting on their thumbs waiting for the axe to drop. Rage against it. Like Sprinsteen's song says, "These jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back" (My Home Town). -Exodus2007-
Comment 12/30/08: The new Cringley site with a little more on IBM for next year and beyond: -just1waiting-
Comment 12/30/08: to: -concerned BTVer- I have no idea what it's like in BTV, but hopefully you're using this lull in work to look for a new job. Based on the postings in this forums, BTV is going to be toast very soon. -waiting_for_the_axe-
Comment 12/30/08: I think IBM should be FAIR. That is either it should give same benefits for everyone or no benefits to anyone. Presently guys are working there asses off to pay for the pension benefits of the 200000 retirees who ritired earlier. That is NOT FAIR. We don't deserve it. The market takes care of such distortions. Like the car industry... What will happen is IBM will lose business share next year so bad that it will go into bankrupcy in 2010, then all the pension benefits will be torn up and every one will be working more or less on a equal basis. I know this sucks, what with the promise made by IBM and all that to the retirees. But, guess what one has to be careful who one BELIEVES in. -dia-
Comment 12/30/08: I frequently look at comments about IBM in Here is a recent one that would come as no surprise to most of us:

Management lies, and as a first line manager, I know ... Indeed my management chain requires me to lie to my team: people I trust and respect. Lies and misrepresentation are the IBM family values, particularly for personnel issues and also for business metrics. That is the biggest downside - you never know when you're getting the straight story. For example, the PBC system is a ranking system. A first line manager is told what their "skew" has to be - the company advertises that a first line manager can use their own judgment for differentiation between team members, subject to some oversight to ensure equity. In actual fact managers are told what to do and are required to lie to their team members so that the executives can make
their metrics.There are many other examples - and I see them every day - it always comes down to managing the metrics, rather than the results.

Comment 12/30/08: To worried: I am 45, and worked for big blow for 10 years before I got the axe. I now work for a smaller company, better salary, and am treated right. Like many have said, it's better on the outside. There are other jobs out there, you just have to get out and find them. Those of you who sit there worried and wait for the axe to fall will definately get hit by it eventually. Unless the Union takes place in this company, there is absolutely no hope for American employees. -Not_Worried-
Comment 12/29/08: From Cringely's last PBS blog post:
"I predicted that IBM would have bad earnings, would try to sell Global Services, and failing that might fund the sale itself. Wrong, wrong and wrong. IBM's earnings were saved by the weak dollar or I would have been right. They couldn't sell Global Services because no company was stupid enough to buy. But they didn't have to finance anything because the credit crunch came and it was clearly not going to happen."
So maybe IBM won't sell Global Services - yet. Meanwhile, more functions move offshore to Fukupistan, East Failia and Screwupland (a.k.a the BRICs) and US jobs continue to be hacked. -Frank-
Comment 12/29/08: I've been reading this message borad and very worried about what I should do to protect my job. I'm in BTV and just search the internet all day. There is absolutely no work. My manager just tells me to play the game and look busy. I cannot work in an environment like this very long. When will it all end? -concerned BTVer-
Comment 12/29/08: Brown Nose- Unfortunately your post here seems to have been taken the wrong way. I understand your post as "you need to do something to save your job". It seems that the people here only want a forum to complain that they might be losing their job. They are not willing to Brown Nose, Unionize or Quit. The majority of people that post here are just concerned about griping and are not willing to take any real action. To those that post here, unfortunately you know it's true, otherwise the alliance would not have had to layoff their employees. I used to be an employee at IBM, I work for another company now, where my involvement is cherished. I urge people on this board to start taking action, Join the union, quit, just do something. Taking some form of action won't hurt you, it will only make your situation better. -I dunno-
Comment 12/29/08: I've seen a few references to IBM selling off part of its business. I was at first doubtful on this rumor, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Why would IBM sacrifice support levels for cheaper labor? The answer is two-fold - one, to make it look extremely profitable with low overhead, and two, why would IBM care about customer sat. when they're going to sell it off this year (all rumor of course, I haven't seen anything official). Accounts are already being impacted by the teams in India and Brazil (I've had a database be down for 48 hours+ while the Brazil DBA team was being engaged (they couldn't FIND the team, and when they did, not a single one of them had user id on the system). It's pretty obvious that IBM is only interested in keeping the accounts' heads above water until they can sell. -waiting_for_the_axe-
Comment 12/29/08: Between the economy and IBM's ongoing plans to offshore our jobs regardless, we are in a terrible pickle. Even if the economy were excellent, IBM would be plotting and planning to get rid of us in favor of Chindians, who are paid 25% of our salaries and have no benefits strings attached. The situation is hopeless for us in IT. Even if we get placed on commercial projects, the pressure will be on to lower costs, and in order to lower costs, IBM will need to maximize the use of Chindian resources. I don't think there's any choice but to re-invent yourself in another profession as there will be constant and continuous downward pressure on your US IT salary from here on out. The problem is that many of us are 40-something and are supposed to be making big bucks from here on out to retirement in order to have a comfortable retirement. It's less of an issue if you're 30 years old...there's time to re-invent, go back to school, etc. But what about us 40-something and 50-something year olds? -Worried-
Comment 12/29/08: To Brown Nose: Unfortunately this is true. My manager was in charge of 5 different teams all on different accounts. Each team had at least one major brown noser. One guy bought the managers coffee every single day and sometimes his lunch. He is still there to this day. I for one can't live like that. I would much rather have a UNION in place, and work with pride and get rated fairly on how I do my work. I was never given an honest review for my hard work, ever. With companies like IBM, Union is the only way to go. -refusedtobrown_nose-
Comment 12/28/08: -Brown Nose- , gee, thanks for the great advice. Now please find yourself some facial toilet paper!!! Brown nosing is such a selfish, shameful endevour in this environment. We are supposed to band together, not compete with one another. That's exactly what Armonk wants. Let me guess, you are in over your head in debt, 3 kids, 2 suv's and a house you cannot afford. Too bad, you lose. See you in the "line". -reality=me-
Comment 12/28/08: Here is how the managers decide who goes and who stays. The managers get together at the beginning of the year and you are ranked. Here is where it pays to be a brown noser. The higher up on the ranking the better the chances you have to stay. The browner your nose the better your chance of staying. It is all politics. Start brown nosing your management team so you have a better chance of not losing your job. You start worrying when you see all employees with brown noses. -Brown Nose-
Comment 12/28/08: You can bridge if you are within 1 year of retirement eligibility. If you are 52 and have 29 years in, you can bridge to 30 years. If you are 54 and have 15 years in, you can bridge to 55. The key is "Retirement Eligibility". You can bridge if you are retirement eligible within 1 year. You are retirement eligible at any age with 30 years or at 55 with at least 15 years. I think when you hit 62, you are eligible with 5 years, although I am not sure about that one. -Beat Up-
Comment 12/28/08: Re: IBM is laying off 400 jobs in its software division with 1 month to find another position; mainly marketing and admin positions. -Anonymous-
Again, this is an old news copied from that Middle East web site 5 years ago. Pls stop the guy from spread false old news. -old news-
Alliance reply: We should have looked at the link closer, before we posted the eroneous comment. Our apologies.

Comment 12/28/08: Every rumor you hear or read here, is just that, a rumor. Someone, somewhere, is talking about it, thinking about it, or planning for it. Only a small fraction of those contingency plans get executed. The only rumors that are true, are those that have already come to pass, and they aren't rumors anymore. So Don't Panic. Look at the "16,000". First it was early December, then mid-December, then early January, then late January. Nobody here knows. The only thing you can do is (1) keep doing the best job you can, (2) polish your resume, and (3) make sure you've got a list of contacts in your field that you can call if you're tapped. Prepare, but don't panic. -Ford Prefect-
Comment 12/27/08: I would like to know what everyone thinks about the bridge.. If I get the ax before my 29 years , say 1 month before, what then? and the Family and Medical leave is a pretty good idea.. !! thx! -ohmygod-
Comment 12/27/08: IBM is laying off 400 jobs in its software division with 1 month to find another position; mainly marketing and admin positions. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/27/08: That SWG layoff news looks like an old news - dated 9/28/2003? -OldNews?-
Alliance reply: We should have looked at this link closer, before we posted this eroneous comment. Our apologies.

Comment 12/27/08: Comment 12/27/08: Layoffs in SWG have started: -Anonymous- Good job! This was news over 5 YEARS AGO! -WakeUp-
Alliance reply: We should have looked at this link closer, before we posted this eroneous comment. Our apologies.

Comment 12/27/08: To -ohmygod - You have almost 29 years and IBM seems to always give a bridge to people within 12 months of 30 years, so you are getting close to being safe from losing the FHA. What I always wondered was about this situation: let 's say you are 15 months from getting 30 years and they tap you for resource action with the dreaded '30 days to find another position'. During those 30 days you inform IBM that you need to use the 12 week Family and Medical Leave for a semi-legitimate reason like an ederly parent needing help and you need to start the 12 week leave like tomorrow? I think IBM pretty much has to give you the 12 weeks. After the 12 weeks you are now within 12 months, so you can keep the FHA because of the 12 month bridge? Any comments out there about whether or not this would work ? I've been counting down the months for my 29th anniversary for years and wondered if I could shave a few months off my countdown. Maybe IBM is smart enough to never tap anyone with 28.5 years so the situation never happens. Of course anyday the one year bridge may beome a 6 month bridge, etc.
To -Exodus 2007 - You mention a bridge for those within 12 months of 55 years old.... I always thought that existed also, but someone who looked like he might need it checked with HR and the only bridges are for those with 29 years..... not for getting to 55 with 15....
-Ticky Dick-
Comment 12/27/08: I always believe in giving a dollar worth of work for a dollar worth of pay. Since IBM cut people's pay by 15% then they should reduce their output by 15%. Fair is fair, tick for tack. Also people bring told to trsin their replacements, should take their sweet time and if they don't finish training their replacements so be it. They are still out the door so why try to make the time frame for training, managers can always finish training. Ha Ha! Retired -Vinnie-
Comment 12/27/08: Here is info on bridge agreement from IBM websites.
The Bridge Agreement has the following text in the agreement document you sign at this url.

When I contact IBM for retirement processing, I will be granted IBM service credit to determine retirement eligibility and for calculation of early retirement reduction factors under the
core benefit of the prior IBM Retirement Plan formulas for the period of the bridge. If I am a participant in the IBM Personal Pension Account, I will receive only
Interest Credits on my Personal Pension Account from the date my bridge commences .
The following is the 2008 plan document with a section on bridges.

About Your Benefits
IBM Personal Pension Plan - Prior Plan
As of December 2008

1.3.5 Retirement Benefits and the Leave of Absence Program
Bridge Leave of Absence:
Under this type of leave of absence, you receive credit towards retirement eligibility only. If you are eligible to take this type of leave, the period of time while on the leave will not be recognized for
1) any pension eligible earnings or,
2) any service credit used in the pension calculation -anonymous-

Comment 12/27/08: I have a theory about some of the stuff going on. As many of us are, IBM is in the process of created Global Delivery Facilities, based on the theory that we work better when we are near other people on our team to make communication easier. I think there is a major flaw in this They are supposedly only making people who live within 50 miles of the sites go in to work. So what about the rest of the team? One thing I've heard from someone who works at a GDF site; is they bring a bunch of people in from a specific area to work, so they can bring them in a large conference room, so they can tell them all at once that they are being laid off. So if you live within 50 miles of one of the GDFs, your dept is going to have to watch out. -thinkingman-
Comment 12/27/08: Layoffs in SWG have started: -Anonymous-
Comment 12/26/08: Yikes, what next. Any idea what the numbers will look like for BTV and what areas will be hit the hardest? Mfg? Dev? We are plugging ahead as 'normal', but maybe that is part of the 'plan'. This will just kill the greater BTV area. -Depressed in 2009-
Comment 12/26/08: Can I suggest a work slow-down from 1/5 till 1/23. They already have their list (sammy Grinch demanded it before XMAS) so why bust ass??? Can't wait to see the look on the faces of brown-nosers as their told to hit the street. LMFAO -Rich French Fry-
Comment 12/26/08: Exit packages may contain a bridge agreement. For those that are retirement eligible do not sing the bridge agreement as your retirement benefits are already frozen and you receive no benefits from this bridge. Check first with the assigned separation Project
Office if this is OK. It should not affect you receiving your severance checks. -Anonymous-

Comment 12/25/08: IBM managers have been thru some training. Manager pipeline says all cuts will be done by early March and hear of a possible buyout. Buyout probably wont be lucrative but another sign of the times. Dev Mgrs cutting projects, Support Mgrs being asked to particiapate - Walt Ling org have not heard numbers but they should participate, also see an increase of contractors from last cuts (Nov) going into Support areas. -anonymous-
Comment 12/25/08: has anyone heard what the exit package will look like? -problyonthelist-
Comment 12/24/08: Of the 16,000 scheduled to be let go, does it include only perms or contractors too? In our area, several contractors were let go and subsequently brought back due to poor communication skills by the offshore replacements. Thanks. -curious-
Comment 12/24/08: The bright side is at least they waited until after Christmas...and deliver the good news. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/24/08: to Grinch... We souldn't be rooting for people to get tossed out of IBM (...although that's probably not what you meant...).On a brighter note... to any one that does get affected by what's coming... it may not seem like it now... but things will get better. IBM does this so regularly now-a-days that other employers are used to it, and look forward to the opportunity of hiring such GREAT TALENT!!!... ;) Things will be OK. Have faith in that. I wish you a heart felt Merry Christmas to all. -Happily Out...-
Comment 12/24/08: 16k on 1/23 sounds plausible. Does anyone know what sites or divisions are targeted, and any #s? Is there to be ANY cuts from non-US locations? -Sure miss TJW-
Comment 12/24/08: BTV will get hit hard on January 23rd. You can't keep 6000 employees working when there is no work. We can thank Sammy Palmashito and his cronies for that. GREED, GREED, GREED is all I can say about Sammy. The greedy bastard. And he will continue to cut jobs in the US and continue to offshore until everything created by the Watsons are gone. Gone for good. What a way to ruin a great company. I used to love working for IBM and was proud to wear my badge. Now I am ashamed to be working for such a greedy bastard who is only interested in his own personal wealth. Millions and Millions of dollars per year. It would be Billions and Billions if the greedy S.O.B. could figure out a way to do it. I am totally disgusted with IBM management right now. Merry Christmas to all. Enjoy it now because it won't be a Happy New Year. -Tiny Tim-
Comment 12/24/08: All movement (transfers) are completely FROZEN until February 2009. The tool on w3 is disabled and no one can transfer employees in or out. Anyone know if this has to do with the massive lay offs being discussed here? -anon-
Comment 12/24/08: Personally, I would like to see a Union Representative on the Board of Directors of every major US Corporation. This business of instructing managers to LIE and mislead their employees is crazy. As a former IBM Manager, I know that most of the HR roll (Randy McDonald's role) is coaching management on how to lie. It really depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. With a union rep on the board of directors, we'd have a resident whistle blower, and these wormy bastards might behave themselves. -John-
Comment 12/24/08: Merry Christmas all. For most of you, this will be your last Christmas at IBM. Sammy the Grinch has seen to that. Next time, UNIONIZE !! -Grinch-
Comment 12/23/08: To -ohmygod- If you get within 12 months of 55 or 30 years they may bridge you out. With so many variations of pension out there now who knows for sure anymore. Merry Christmas and good luck. -Exodus2007-
Comment 12/23/08: The layoff date is January 23rd. Approx. 16,000 employees worldwide will be affected. The majority from the US. I heard this from a 2nd line mgr. Confidentiality agreements were signed in the upper ranks to keep this hush, hush, but nothing this big stays out of the light for long. Good luck everyone. -the fix is in-
Comment 12/23/08: My manager is involved in the layoff planning in our division (part of the technology group). He told me the numbers in our division were going to be very large, a lot larger than what the other managers were expecting. He moved half of us onto projects with government funding commitments and thinks he can protect the people he has left, but he's not sure. Nobody wants to fear-monger, but the layoffs are coming. I used to be in management (I got better), and I can see the familiar patterns here (sudden movements of people they are cherry-picking to protect,
the way denials are given, the acceleration of the review process so they have the lambs lined up, etc.). -Tom IBM Emp-

Comment 12/23/08: To Sonf Samp: why not ask for our names and serial numbers too? People in the know have to protect themselves and their sources, and that may come at the expense of specifics. Any future layoff talk on this board is rumor until it actually happens, no matter how detailed the post. -NaN-
Comment 12/23/08: To -darwin's radio- All the divisions within ibm are affected. From what I was told, many areas didn't make the 80 - 85% globalization of accounts in 2008, so they're pushing hard for 1st quarter results. As they did with lean, they will lay off first, then re-organize later. If you have a technical job, developer job, dba job, S/A job, PM job, or work in the software groups, manufacturing areas, etc ALL are
affected. If you have a good mgr, they might give you an inkling as to whether you need to start looking for something else, but from what
I was told, the mgrs are being told to respond to employee questions as follows: "I have not heard anything specific about reorgs/resource
If you hear that, watch out, they know something. -miss understanding-

Comment 12/23/08: I have confirmation from two independent, well-placed SWG sources that a major layoff is underway. No confirmation of when or extent at this time. -NaN-
Comment 12/23/08: Yes I have almost 29 years with IBM and I live in a rural area where there is NOTHING compareable where I live. I am sooooo afraid I am going.. If they would just wait until I have my 30 years , lots of things would fall in place.. my daughter would be graduating high school in 2010. my husband would be able to get on medicaid since he has prostrate cancer and will be 65 . (Yes, is 11 years older than me). I don't wanna lose our life insurance , health insurance or my Future Health Account .. which I will lose if I don't get 30 years... right? this sux big time.. I am already having anxiety attacks.. merry Christmas.. I don't which is worse? knowing or not knowing. -ohmygod-
Comment 12/23/08: Can those in the know about a large January layoff please post some details? Otherwise you are merely perpetuating rumors. What divisions? Your source? Your location and level, etc. If your sources are good enough to post here, then also alert your local press. Otherwise, please stop spreading fear, especially at the holidays. Thank you. -Sonf Samp-
Comment 12/23/08: I was one of the chosen few who went to Qualxserv for 2 years and then was axed when IBM moved the printer contract to a cheaper co. I ran into one of the PSG CE's who moved to the Ricoh/IBM quagmire who said they have to clean up IBM's messes all day due to unqualified people pissing off major accounts. You get what you pay for.The main reason I was "chosen" to be moved was I was over 45 years old. I now work for a smaller company as a field engineer mainly with servers and federal government contracts so the customer isn't going anywhere. I am paid 50% more than IBM's pittance and my contributions are appreciated. Funny, in my government server rooms, I see and work with plenty of Dell, HP, and Sun equipment and there is very little Big Blue, less than 5%. I got some very good training and experience in my 15 years with IBM and I was able to utilize this to get a better position. My advice: get out while you can. The market's tough right now but jobs are out there. Don't leave any stone unturned. My thoughts andd prayers are with those about to be laid off and their families. In today's world your're just a number on a spreadsheet and one day they plug in a cheaper number. Sign me: -Happy to be away from the Blue Monster-
Comment 12/23/08: -miss understanding-, can u elaborate a bit? which divisions, areas, etc? -darwin's radio-
Comment 12/23/08: What happens to the people who are on short- or long- term disability? Is the almighty IBM legally allowed to target those folks too? -HappyNewYear-
Alliance reply: IBM has 'ways' of doing it. It's been done in the past, to people that did not have the wherewithall to fight back. Legally? Good question.
Comment 12/23/08: -CP- I can agree with you except for one point. Gerstner did not bring IBM out of the crapper: IBM employees did. We should not let anyone forget this! Lou Jr. also was interested in lining his pockets at the expense of IBM. He made well over $500M in stock options and bonuses in about 9 years. He still has his retirement perks. LOU JR KNOWS THE VALUE OF A CONTRACT TOO. HE HAS ONE STILL WITH IBM. Why can't we get ours while still employed in IBM or have our retirement benefits protected in writing when we leave IBM? -All4LouNone4U-
Comment 12/22/08: The official layoff notification date is January 23rd, 2009. IBM is laying off a large number of people (16,000+) so they were required to notify the government. If you're affected by this your manager already knows your status! Good luck to everyone as they outsource our jobs to foreign nations. -miss understanding-
Comment 12/22/08: Good luck to everyone. The layoffs are coming. All divisions in IBM will be affected. The majority of those cuts hitting the US workforce. End of January. Get all your ducks in a row. Time is running out. -tai mai shue-
Comment 12/22/08: I've been very quiet for a while. Last year, I was offered a contract at a IBM outsource in my local community. I took the interview just to make sure I had my bases covered and was offered the position. Abiet at a lower pay scale than I left IBM. It was a job and given that it was close, I did accept. One year later and after the position was transfered to ATT, guess what? It was cut again. What the ATT transfer of employees did was move regular employees to another company and now since ATT got the short end of the stick from IBM, ATT is doing what IBM didn't dare. Really hacking what was left of the company. Now maybe I can wait out the Bush recession and get a real job next summer. At least I'm surviving. -RA'd bear-
Comment 12/22/08: IBM is now running business like mafia, and people are forced into mental slavery, feeling helpless with the constant changes, job & pay cuts! guess it's people unite & do something about it !!! -NP-
Comment 12/21/08: I started with IBM in the mid 1980's. Back then I was proud to say I was working for IBM. In the 1980's, Sammy Palmisano, Nick Donofrio and all of the other knuckle heads in the good ole boys club were taking IBM into a downward spiral. Lou Gerstner was brought in to bring IBM back to life. He had to make some tough decisions, but I believe he did bring IBM out of the crapper. When Lou retired, he handed control back over to the knuckleheads (Palmisano, Donofrio, etc.) who almost ran the company into the ground in the 1980's. After the pay cut last winter, I decided enough was enough. IBM had taken away so much over the years little by little, that the pay reduction was the final straw for me. I had always been a top contributor and the payback was getting my pay cut. I put my resume online. Within a month I had a new job making 25% more thank I was at IBM, I have great benefits. I love my job and I enjoy going to work everyday. This company has respect for the individual (remember that campaign??). Respect for the individual is non-existent at IBM. My nephew in college said that they use IBM as a case study of how NOT to run a company. We have all read the posts where folks that leave IBM find jobs where they are much happier. It is absolutely true. IBM is run by fear. Sammy Palmisano and Nicky Donofrio and company are only interested in lining their own pockets. I know the economy is tight now, but the best time to look for a job is while you still have a job. I would encourage you to post your resume out on while you are still employed. -CP-
Comment 12/20/08: "So how are the 1st line managers being told to target those employees over 50?" basically, the managers can structure projects and incentives such that the older folks don't get trained on the the next-gen stuff. when I was at IBM-- towards the end, training was a reward so those who weren't deemed worthy of training slipped down the ladder and new hires were trained on new tech, etc... I know quite a few companies who use the start up concept to isolate one group of workers from another and so they can easily disband one of the groups, transfer workers, etc... so if your group suddenly doesn't get resources, etc...., the dominoes start falling naturally. unionization can minimize this game. but then companies like GM "outsource" to Mexico to play their trump card. -steven-
Comment 12/20/08: Anyone involved with CDI, Comsys, Artech or other contracting companies - prepare for some huge gouging before or in March... more percentage cuts, contract cuts and percentage evals on contracts are coming up. Right now the upper tier mgt is in a bunker mentality is the joke. TT is next on the chopping block list for January after the other cuts are done in GTS and finishing in IGS for the trunover. GDC is going to take more than 30% of work from TT by mid 2nd quarter of 09 and then the options package comes in. Options package is 30-60 days to find new position, which will be great if you can move to GDC or do a 1/4th of the pay. Neither New York or NC will be getting any new buildings or positions in 09 or first two quarters of 10 as IBM wanted for tax breaks that were already told to both locations. Sorry for the bad news, but was the latest. -IBM UC'd-
Comment 12/20/08: To Anon re: vacation days. I got my pkg. in 07, was told that I earned 1.5 vacation days per month when I questioned the exact same thing. I was there more than 5 years but less than 10. Your situation may be different based on the number of years service. Hope this info helps. Good luck to you, be glad you are out. I sure am ! -Ed_Ebcdic-
Comment 12/20/08: I was laid off Dec 10. The sev package included pymt for unused vacation days. When I turned in the days, they were reduced by 2, with the explanation that I hadn't earned the final two due to leaving on Dec 10. (I earned 25 days per year. Can anyone verify this?) I no longer have the charts showing how vacation is accumulated during the year. Thanks. -Anon-
Comment 12/19/08: This is a bit relevant:
The two cables for the Middle East and Asia were cut and over 68% of the web content/traffic was cut..mainly to India. This is why they plan on India and secondary sites in Brazil. Heard it has been fun the past two days. -IBM UC'd-
Comment 12/18/08: If you know of job cuts at IBM please contact Christine Young at:
Times Herald-Record 845-346-3140
or -Christine-

Comment 12/18/08: Exodus2007: You are right on. Sam Palmisano is probably laughing his ass off right now. This is exactly what he wants. He wants to instil fear in his employees so they think they are just lucky to have a job. The whole thing makes me sick. Sam Palmisano has all the power and can abuse us all he wants. We can do nothing to fight back. Let's stay organized and get a Union so we can fight for our rights as employees! -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: In order to get union recognition in IBM we need employees to sign up with the Alliance. Unfortunately we have seen little progress on this front. We can not change IBM for the better on message boards. It takes action and mobilization of employees. For those that still have not joined: Join as a member or subscriber on the front page of our web site. This web site gets 45,000 visits a month. Only a fraction of you have joined. There is power in numbers!

Comment 12/18/08: The winner in this round of one upmanship between been there, been there too, been there 2, been there 3 etc etc etc is of course IBM. They have succesfully fragmented us with age and pension and innuendo so we bicker umongst ourselves and never quite succeed in organizing. Sammy thanks you for playing his anti organizing game of " see I'm smarter then you but not smart enough to form a union". See you in the next round where we play " My job just went to some other country and I didn't go with it but the Executives still have their jobs " This of course will be followed by the hindsight round where we say " Gee I wish I had set aside my petty differences and organized so I would have a decent job with decent benefits " . This will as always be followed by the lightning round of can we organize in 30 days before I am out on the street unemployed. I deliberately did not quote anything that anyone would feel the need to correct me on so they can feel superior but if anyone finds something by all means post it in the nastiest way possible as this hastens the bonding together as a brotherhood or sisterhood....NOT! -Exodus2007-

Comment 12/18/08: Were you recently reclassified in 2008 from exempt to non-exempt and live in the State of California? Were you recently RA'd and also live in California? If your answer is yes, I would like to hear your story. Please contact me at: -Jonathan Doely-

Comment 12/18/08: Pension rules have changed more than once. I lost track. Perhaps someone has a flowchart that shows all the rules and variables and twists. Then anyone could find their situation and understand what applies to them. -Used to be there-
Alliance Reply: This comments section is for discussion of Job Cuts. Please take the pension discussion to the pension comments section.

Comment 12/18/08: To anonymous who mentioned, "I was laid off in November and I am convinced that it was because of my age and length of service. IBM does not want people over 50 working for them." I don't think IBM is stupid enough to put out a memo to the 1st line managers saying to target older employees because that would be written proof of age discrimination. Don't forget, there are IBM managers over age 50 too who could keep such a memo and use it against IBM if they were ever laid off. So how are the 1st line managers being told to target those employees over 50? -over50-

Comment 12/18/08: BeenThereToo, YOU should check YOUR facts before YOU post YOUR bullshit on here. It is a fact that many that are now in the 25 to 26 year range did have their pension (the same one you have) taken away. There was a "special group" of us that no longer have a pension based on the announcements made in 1998. It was based on years of service in 1998 and the individuals age. If you don't believe me, I'll trade my "pension" for yours. -BeenThereTooToo-

Comment 12/18/08: I was laid off in November and I am convinced that it was because of my age and length of service. IBM does not want people over 50 working for them. Even younger co-workers made comments to me asking me what am I waiting for after 32 years....I am only 54 years old. Managers within IBM are confirming the huge movement of jobs to the global delivery centers in Brazil, Argentina and India. The news is not good for those in the US. Thanks a lot, Sammy! -Anonymous-

Comment 12/18/08: BeenThereToo - before you call something BS, maybe you too should check the facts. You have no idea how old BeenThere was when they converted pensions to cash balance plans but many of us were too young to keep the pension. -BeenThereThree-
Alliance Reply: This comments section is for discussion of Job Cuts. Please take the pension discussion to the pension comments section.

Comment 12/18/08: In response to the pension comments. Yes, everyone at IBM still gets something of a pension, but what IBM failed to clearly announce in their changing of the retirement policy from the previous PPA to a 401k contribution is that they also changed the retirement eligibility. For anyone not on the old old retirement plan there is no such thing as retiring after 30 years of service. It is now a retirement age eligibility and that age is 55. So someone like my self who has been working since I was 19 yrs. old for IBM am not retirement eligible now until I am 55 yrs old which would mean I have worked for this company for 36 years. Thats not to say I would have retired at age 49... but it would have been nice to have tried to achieve it and be eligible for it like I was a few years ago. The bad of it... IBM can decide after any time between now and then to lay me off and not only am I not entitled to any retirement benefits I will lose the option of using the FHA money already put aside for me between the ages of 40-50 yrs. Wonder where that FHA money goes if IBM lays me off between the age of 50 & 55? To spin more irony on it.. an employee who starts at age say 40.. can work for 15 yrs and be retirement eligible.. good for IBM... but an employee who has been working for 36 yrs and is not yet 55 cannot? does that make any sense? Yes I get my frozen PPA cash balance dollars collecting 4.5% interest that is barely over a current yrs. salary and whatever is left in my 401K but its far cry from what it would have been and certainly isnt enough to retire on and this isnt age discrimination? -Almost gone-
Alliance Reply: This comments section is for discussion of Job Cuts. Please take the pension discussion to the pension comments section.

Comment 12/18/08: To -BeenThere->>> If you were not 55 or older, then you should have been entitled to vested rights, OR did you do something like taking the cash balance option when it was offered . Your vested rights were payable IMMEDIATELY when you were FIRED. You were probably in the FHA, so you lost all IBM health coverage, if you did not make retirement eligibility. -sCREWED-
Alliance Reply: This comments section is for discussion of Job Cuts. Please take the pension discussion to the pension comments section.

Comment 12/18/08: -jeff_p- What happened to the Wed. 12/17 announcement you mentioned? -Wondering-

Comment 12/17/08: "I don't know where BeenThere gets his information, but those who have been working at IBM for the length of time he has, still get their pension. The only changes made in the last few years are that the pension plan was frozen at the beginning of 2008 and as of a few years ago, new hires get only a 401K and no pension. When you review posts before putting them here, you should check the facts instead of posting bullshit. Your credibility will improve." -BeenThereToo-:
You are obviously a troll. I read BeenThere's post just fine. The pension is gone at IBM. Yes, for some older employees it is still there but frozen. A new hire just gets a 401K. Lighten up jerk. -BeenThere2-
Alliance Reply: This comments section is for discussion of Job Cuts. Please take the pension discussion to the pension comments section.

Comment 12/17/08: stg layoffs are being planned right now my spouse has heard from some managers, and gts is coming up as well, whatever that means. he had this site up so i thought i would write something when i read all the sad comments. 15% stg but not equal in all areas. gts may be more. end of january for announcing. i hope he still has a job. -Anon-

Comment 12/17/08: I was terminated by IBM in August 2008, apparently for expressing my concerns online, in the Poughkeepsie Journal about IBM reducing pay (eliminating shift differential) to their lowest paid employees or as they put it "becoming more competitive". I was not alone in this freedom of expression / speech. They never provided me with anything in writing as to why I was terminated. Since then, most recently, December 2008, I was hired to work as a contractor at the same site. I worked there for one day and then was notified by that contractor that IBM had blocked my access and I could not work there. Are there laws against this? Can IBM do anything to anybody???? I would appreciate your help with this matter.
I believe it is a freedom of speech and human rights issue. I have filed a claim. -Anonymous-
Alliance Reply: I have some experience with this issue, so let me share it with you. When you are employed by IBM or any contractor using the "At Will Employment" policy; you are at the mercy of their will. If the company wants to fire you for no reason or if they wish to fire you for a reason they won't discuss with you, it is their right. If you publicly disparage, denounce, or otherwise defame the company, its products or services, or its managment policies; they can fire you for just cause and they will call it 'misconduct'. As long as you are employed by a company; what you say publicly can be construed as 'disparagement'. Freedom of Speech is
NOT an entitlement when you are employed by a company you're speaking out against. The contractor is probably an "at will" employer also; and agreed in writing to several of IBM's "at will" policies as well. Frankly, the US Bill Of Rights loses jurisdiction as soon as you step upon private property and begin speaking or acting publicly, against that company. It's unbelievably sad, but it's true. Good luck with your claim. I hope you win. I just wanted to point out that it's not an easy road.
Rick White
Organizer & Web Maintenance
CWA Local 1701

Comment 12/17/08: I don't know where BeenThere gets his information, but those who have been working at IBM for the length of time he has, still get their pension. The only changes made in the last few years are that the pension plan was frozen at the beginning of 2008 and as of a few years ago, new hires get only a 401K and no pension. When you review posts before putting them here, you should check the facts instead of posting bullshit. Your credibility will improve. -BeenThereToo-

Comment 12/17/08: I have to agree with -BeenThere-, in the posting below. IBM's been cutting its' US head count for YEARS now. So, pretty much, if you simply WORK there, then your pretty great relative to your peers out there in industry. That said, if you are reading this, whether you're an Alliance member or not.... if you are a “2” or below and have been so for 2 or more PBC periods.... even if you've juuuussst got yourself your first raise after a couple years of “stag-alary” (read: no raises for several years...) ...go to, go to, or get on, or get with a head hunter.... ...however you choose to do it.... get out of IBM.... before they push your out. You'll be glad you did. Once layoffs start and the market gets flooded with tons of pushed out IBMers, sadly, it’ll get a lot harder to stand out to other employers (but things will still work out…). When I chose to leave IBM, I told my manager basically, I’d rather go while the going is good, and on my own terms. He was upset that I would choose to leave the team when everything “looked” great at the time…. I’d bet my words are ringing around in the back of head now… sadly enough. All in all, I wish everyone well this Christmas, and no matter what. If you do get RA’d just remember there will be a brighter tomorrow! -Happily Out of the IBM mess... but still Curious-

Comment 12/17/08: Richard, Not sure what the severance package contains. It really depends on your position in the company and the facility. Once you are tapped though it is over. You are going out the door. Your manager might play some games like your performance has dropped. Once you hear that start cleaning out your desk. -Anonymous-

Comment 12/17/08: I was laid off from IBM in 2006 after 26 years. There was no full retirement package and healthcare was COBRA after 12 months. In case you don't know it, COBRA is incredibly expensive and was the only healthcare option open to me. As I read the comments here, everyone who has lost of their jobs or will lose their jobs to outsourcing need to be contacting President-elect Obama and your Congressman. The outsourcing that has happened is now biting us in the back because we have not stood up to the so-called globalization. Unless you stand up and do something, IBM will continue to lay people off with no benefits. Look what's happened to your 401(k)s. With no pension now, how does it feel to know that you'll have to live off your 401(k) as your retirement plan? Most IBMers are highly educated, professional people who should not be losing their jobs. Think Palmisano is losing any sleep on your behalf? Last I heard he was still getting his millions in salary and bonuses while the worker-bees are struggling. Where do you think our kids are going to work, after going to college and assuming loans to pay for their education, if every American corporation thinks it's o.k. to treat the American worker? Since when has it become acceptable that American workers assume the brunt of IBMs layoffs and downsizing? Where are the executives who make these decisions? Are they being laid off as well? Those who are afraid to say something thinking it won't happen to you, wake up! I didn't think it would happen to me and it did. IBM management says they will help you find a job but most organizations freeze their headcount when a resource action is underway and chances are slim to none that you'll find something. This game has been played for years on IBMers thinking someone is looking out for you and there are opportunities. It's a joke. Unless you stand up and say/do something, this will continue. The comfort level you think you have working for IBM has long gone. They told us in management school to fear the Alliance; but that seems to be the only group that is working on behalf of employees. I'm sure the automakers UAW union is getting the same response from their members. Someone needs to work on behalf of IBM employees and ensure that even those who've been resource action'd are getting the best deal. -BeenThere-

Comment 12/17/08: Cuts are going to happen in jan in STG, Tucson storage will be hit. it will happen within the first two weeks. more than likely after quarterly report. -janisit-

Comment 12/17/08: Everyone writing comments here, ask youself one question -- Do you know of anyone whos job at ibm was saved by the alliance in the USA? Do you know of anyone who was laid off or lost there job and the alliance got them back . What do they really do for you ???? Is this a bunch of smoke and mirrors? -bingo-
Alliance Reply: We have helped many employees as they go through the minefield of employment at IBM. We have helped some save their jobs, others we could not. It is very difficult to stop resource actions. We have also pushed for recall rights for employees who have lost their job. It is pretty difficult when we don't have legal representation for workers inside IBM. That is what we are fighting for.
On top of that, we are the main source of information for IBM employees on job cuts. Do you think IBM is going to volunteer the information? We don't see anyone else fighting for IBMers, but the Alliance.

Comment 12/17/08: If one gets tapped on the shoulder, are they typically offering 6 months and a bridge (my 30th is in april 09)....the way this company is now, I am almost hoping for the offer 401 k balance or not -Richard-

Comment 12/17/08: "Heard rumors of looming January cuts, but not sure if it's just the same rumors circulating to different people...Anyone hear anything else? -Annonymous-"
Definite cuts coming...I'm a part of them...Most or all temps in BTV BEOL during the 1st week of Jan., unsure how widespread beyond that -Currently Temp-lemental- (Not for long)-

Comment 12/17/08: To: -Here it comes ...- The agreement you refer to (NY not getting any cuts), is only valid until the end of this year...Most likely both Fishkill & BTV are getting hit. Here's a piece of an article from July '08: "The investment and job creation would begin by 2009 and be completed by 2011. It comes with a pledge from IBM that it will not cut jobs in New York this year." The article itself: -Currently Temp-lemental-

Comment 12/17/08: For everyone reading here if you are not a member, then give yourself a Christmas present by joining the Alliance this year. It will warm your heart and make you feel better for a whole year. -young lady-

Comment 12/16/08: Heard rumors of looming January cuts, but not sure if it's just the same rumors circulating to different people...Anyone hear anything else? -Annonymous-

Comment 12/16/08: Here is what a SWG 3rd line mgr told me about the upcoming cuts: 15.000 headcounts in total / focus on US / announcement tomorrow (Wednesday 12/17) ...... happy christmas :( -jeff_p-

Comment 12/16/08: if there are indeed large STG cuts looming then you'll see most if it coming from BTV, no doubt, seeing IBM cut a deal with NY State to limit the amount of cuts that can happen in order to maintain a certain number of employees. -Here it comes ...-

Comment 12/16/08: Has anyone heard about layoffs in SWG in US coming in January? -AliceInWonderland-

Comment 12/16/08: There appears to be a large resource action looming for STG in January 2009. No specific information has been released as to the
target % reduction. I have heard of orgs outside STG that were given targets to reduce their teams by 25% - 45%. Any insight as to the target % for STG? -Curious-

Comment 12/15/08: 4 people I know got laid off in the storage division last week. -Anoymous-

Comment 12/15/08: TATA is TaTa Consultancy Service or TCS; a Indian based contracting service company out of Bangalrore, India and NK is for the old one of "NO KIDDING". As in NK, they are that far in denial of reality... -IBM UC'd-

Comment 12/15/08: I think it is quite amusing that India is doing LEAN in case no one has told ya; check with your peers overseas. Rhythm , blues and Jazz sound familiar to those of us in ITD? Procurement was too expensive in India and was outsourced to Vietnam so even India is not impervious to the machine anymore. As for those of you mourning the libraries; the one in RTP was converted to office space years ago. There was never money to keep it up to date to begin with. -Waitingonafriend-

Comment 12/15/08: Tata= Tata Consultancy Services, an Indian consulting group. Not sure about "NK". -Anonymous-

Comment 12/15/08: What's "TATA, NK"? -Out of the IBM mess... but still Quorius-
Comment 12/13/08: Can some one summarize and post table of IBM layoffs and the loc/dept/group name? -been there-
Comment 12/12/08: I've been retired from IBM for almost two years now and I stopped following the message board on the Alliance. For some crazy reason I decided to see what was going on. Wow.....not only has nothing's gotten worse. I forgot how amazing it is how many people get cut but the number of executives and management grow. I was with the company 33 years and spent a lot of time around the top corporate executives. These guys are the epitome of what is wrong in the US today. I can honestly say you couldn't pay me any amount of money to come back. In the two years I'm retired, IBM has increased my benefit cost by 25%. If I knew that when I left I would still have left. -Happy I'm Gone-
Comment 12/12/08: I'm about to get out soon if things go like they should and the news I couldn't talk about before is very true. Rumors about large target dates originally set for first of 2010 have been moved to Feb of 09. Prepare to see huge cuts and reorganization with some massive layoffs across the board as sites in Bangalore are getting ramped up. Don't believe it? Then ask the 28 people currently in India to bring and train the IBM Certified Masters (even though they don't have any other certs) to do the other levels. Afterward's they will be the telecommute links for the GDC's. News will go out in January for notification of final in Feb. Prepare to see larger cutbacks as there was a Global Call about how mgmt is about to handle the RA allocation's. By now most of the contractors remaining are forced to 12-15% cuts in contracts and next part is limited hours never to exceed 40 ascribed as well in the new SOW's. Cuts are meant to show a 20-30% mprovement in profit lines before the next reports come out in March...that came from the top! We were told outright there are no positions available unless a customer demand of SLA's is pushed (specifically customer pushes the compliance to have specific cert people). Most PM's and SDM's are going to be customer facing here with more secondaries from India and Brazil. Too many issues with China of late to push there more right now..namely there has been more help to hire at the Bangalore facility. This is the allusion I talked about a couple of weeks ago but was afraid to; people started to leak more so now I could say the rest. Gameplan is for US to only be 30% of final workplace numbers so IBM will have more global standing and more available contracts in other locales. Sam even talked about taking away contracts from TATA, NK!!!! -IBM UC'd-
Comment 12/12/08: CDI makes commission of anywhere around $7/hr to $14/hr per employee and keep passing the entire cut from IBM to their employees. Moreover the rates IBM pays is not transparent to the Contractor. It seems there is also a policy which does not allow Contractors to change projects within IBM. Hostage Situation? -CDI-victim-
Comment 12/12/08: I heard IBM just loss the Amex account to EDS, all fulltimers/ contractors on the account will be gone by Feb 09, was told by IBMers on the Amex account.. Merry Christmas to all... -Mr. Canada-
Comment 12/12/08: "a VT State Rep commented this week that BTV was laying off 300 folks this Tuesday, 12/16. I wonder if he/she meant 1/16 ... as mid-January seems to be the new buzz with the changes forever changing BTV -BTV Brrr-"
Wow, that sucks. IBM pulling the plug on BTV just before the holidays. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. :-( -Anonymous-

Comment 12/12/08: ISSW in SWG just announced that they are cancelling their WebSphere Technical Conference (WSTC 2009) in Vegas that was supposed to be held in February. This is just the start of a major cost cutting campaign which the rumor has it will include some significant layoffs across SWG. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/12/08: a VT State Rep commented this week that BTV was laying off 300 folks this Tuesday, 12/16. I wonder if he/she meant 1/16 ... as mid-January seems to be the new buzz with the changes forever changing BTV -BTV Brrr-
Comment 12/12/08: Rumor in Tulsa is a "fat trimming" will be occuring early january. This coming from a manager forced to pick where the Fat is. Of course everyone is on a hireing freeze except our friends in Argentina. To SARAH: IBM started as an american compy but went global adn sees moving jobs from the US to other countries for less pay and less quality as leveageing ther global assets to achive buisness goals. Basically everyone else is doing it and to keep up they have to under bid on contracts to win them forcing some if not all the work to be done in other countries. American economy going in the tank because of this, people losing jobs because someone wants to cut costs to make a profi change from 1.2bill to 1.3 bill so they get a bigger bonus. Never mind the thousands of people making money that bought the products and services they sell and now can't do so. Idiots moving money out of the country at a rate WAYY faster than it is coming in. Crossing my fingers that I still have a place to work next month or at least can find a good replacement FAST(not likely in this economy) -AnnoyedwithIBM-
Comment 12/12/08: To those of you who talk about having no life at IBM. In all the years I worked there they always brought up the "work/life" total 100% BS. I never had a work life balance there, and management didn't give a damn about you or your family, because they were not up at 2am when I was working a problem. In fact my manager was NEVER there at 2am when I was online. The only way to stop things like this and actually have a work/life balance is to install a UNION. Only then will people be treated fairly. Until then, the "cuts happening now" headlines will always be there. -havalifenow-
Comment 12/12/08: Have on good authority that a large company wide RA is coming in January. Notification in the middle of the month. SWG is definitely part of it. -FedUp-
Comment 12/11/08: I'm another who's in through CDI and was hit with a 13.5% pay cut at the end of November. CDI is no help in finding another position as long as IBM has me. -CDI Doesn't Help-
Comment 12/11/08: At a recent All Hands meeting the VP of Americas SSO loudly touted IBM's commitment to 'green' computing. During Q&A when asked how taking employees that today are working from home and requiring them to drive up to 50 miles each way under the GDF initiative fit in with 'green'. After dancing a few minutes she noted that employees could take 'personal initiative' and take action such as car pooling or buying a hybrid vehicle. Let's see....15% pay cut, crack down on OT, added costs from GDF and the healthcare hike and a salary that's less today than I made 5 years ago despite 2+ ratings and raises every year I've been with IBM and I should offset the environmental impact of driving into a GDC by purchasing a new car? Every year I think IBM management can't get more out of touch with the workforce and every year I get the same surprise. -GoingGoingGONE-
Comment 12/11/08: Hey IBM’ers having been RA’d from the SWG a few months ago if you think you are not being rated and ranked think again. My manager made the mistake while letting me go on the phone (didn’t even have the guts to do it face to face) that he had to rank everyone in his group. Your current PBR’s, performance means absolutely nothing it is who you know and how much they like you. In my opinion it all starts at the top with Bob Guidotti VP of Software Sales, Americas who just like the General Motors executives are lifers and have no clue on what to do or how to make sales happen when times get tough. So internally they cut jobs, make excuses and blame everyone else so they can make their bonuses while externally telling Wall Street how great things are(look at last quarters earning report). Therefore Bob, I rank you LOW based on your integrity and ability to manage for example the System z Great Lakes region sales team has not made quota in at least 3 yrs and you justify keeping the first and second line managers while allowing them to rank their reports for Resource Actions how nice. As a result, you’ve been selected for permanent layoff and are eligible to participate in the Stockholders(owner of the company) Resource Action. To show you how nice and concerned IBM is about you and your family, you have the option to find another job within IBM in the next 30 days - Oh did I forget to tell you all the jobs are frozen and the separation package sucks. I’m Bad. Merry Christmas Bob -Golfer4IBM-
Comment 12/11/08: I was part of a resource action effective, Dec.1, 2008. I worked at the .COM sales center in Atlanta. Resource action was for S&D, Div.12 across US. There are 4-5 pages of data showing the jobs eliminated. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/11/08: So - the rumor in this board and on yahoo boards of 16k US workforce starting 1/5 might have some validity to it. The Lotus services team was to have a big training meeting in Dallas starting 1/5. Last night, an 'urgent' memo was sent asking everyone to halt their travel plans to Dallas on the 4th as it is being reevaluated. Interesting stuff. Merry Christmas. -Just speaking reality-
Comment 12/10/08: RTP actually means Research Triangle Park. Some buildings associated with this location are situated in the city of Raleigh. Of the three cities making up the "triangle": Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill, the RTP campus is closest to Durham. RTP was developed as a research and industrial park back in the 1960s. -Used to work there-
Comment 12/10/08: To Single people have lives too, I agree. I won't share my own situation, as that is irrelevant. I may have 5 children and many grandchildren, or ... HOWEVER, I believe that the family friendly policies promoted by corporations like IBM are mainly for the benefit of 1. execs, 2. people (mainly women, which I am) and 3. those dealing with other family issues such as aging parents. Historically I believe the most support and benefits have gone to groups 1 and 2. This may change over time and as the population ages. However, I also FULLY expect that these programs will become less relevant as jobs move to developing (growth) markets, where survival is the need of the day. In the interest of full disclosure, yes, I have MANY times had to pick up the slack from new mothers. And yes I am a woman, just haven't been blessed with a family. GOING IT ALONE. KILL ME> :) -Agreed-
Comment 12/10/08: To- WhyNoBenefits- Usually what happens in unemployment claims is that you cannot start collecting until after period of your severance expires. For example, if you receive 3 months severance, then you can start collecting 3 months after your last day at work. That is how it was in MN. -patriot-
Comment 12/10/08: To -WhyNoBenefits- There have been many people ra'd and even with severance pay, were able to collect unemployment benefits. It might be different state to state -Noregrets-
Comment 12/10/08: ex IBM colleagues in Lenovo and InfoPrint System are upset on the benefits and entitlement that they are enjoying now. Not as impressive as they expected. They were given a chance to debate during the negotiation because it was done by the management. Even some colleagues from Global Logistics are worried now and they are anticipating the same treatment where Geodis takes over in January 2009. Those who have been very loyal to IBM for many many years and they feel very depressed that the GL were sold to Geodis last week. Not sure what will happen to the rest - GBS, GTS, and those units which are good cash cows for IBM. 2009 will not be a good year for
many IBMers as we anticipating lay offs will happen very soon. -Anonymous-

Comment 12/09/08:
SWG=Software Group
IGS=IBM Global Delivery Services
RTP=Raleigh (as in NC)
WTF=Westford (Massachusetts) -waiting-my-turn-

Comment 12/09/08: I just heard from my source (manager), there will be a massive layoff in January, for sure, for STG in Tucson. Good luck to all. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/09/08: Waiting-for-the-axe ... Single people without kids have lives too. They have family and friends, and they don't want to have to uproot their lives and move to Siberia either. -Single People Have Lives Too-
Comment 12/09/08: Just some more information on the logistic sale, the mechanicsburg's employees were called to a site meeting in the cafe on Dec 2, to be infomed of pending sale. Otherwise, we the employees are in dark as our managers determine which departments and employees are in scope the move to Geodis. So the number of employees who will be effected is unknow, but we believe most of employees will tagged. So happy holidays to all, as we will not know our fate until early January. -In the dark-
Comment 12/09/08: ISC = Integrated Supply Chain -MrYahoo-
Comment 12/09/08: To WhyNoBenefits Indeed the benefits are different in every state. In some states people who are "retaining" for a new career get
preference in starting benefits - proof of being engaged in retraining varies, but in some states is as simple as being enrolled in a community college for just one class... check it out. -hosed-

Comment 12/09/08:
STG = Systems Technology Group
IGA = IBM Global Account
GDC == IBM Global Delivery Center.
Most of these acronyms can be found via google.... -noone-
Comment 12/09/08: To those IBMers needing to define acronyms, add to your Sametime. This is a Sametime bot that will enable you to do "whatis GDC", for example. GDC = Global Delivery Center. This is another way of saying "huge pools of cheap Indian, Chinese, Brazilian, etc., labor". It essentially means offshoring. -My_job_has_been_tagged_for_offshoring-

Comment 12/09/08: STG = Systems & Technology Group GCD - Global Delivery Center Not sure myself on the IGA. -BlueBlows-

Comment 12/09/08: To WhyNoBenefits: I have heard elsewhere that severance payments might get in the way of unemployment compensation. The idea is that severance is equal to some number of pay periods, so you are not destitute during that time. Anyway, each state probably has its own rules for this, so your experience may be better or worse than that of your buddy across the state line. Considering that you now have time to do it, read everything available so you have background knowledge, and then insist on getting clear and full explanations from the administrators of this program. You just might find an opening. -Mule Skinner-

Comment 12/09/08: Maybe someone could define all the acronyms in this string: Example: STG is what? IGA, GDC, what does that stand for? Please don't assume that all readers can translate these acronyms, kindly spell it out. Yes, I clearly understand that BTV is Burlington, Vermont, but not everyone can translate to understand what organizations are affected by cuts or rumors of layoffs. Help all us readers understand better. -Wondering-

Comment 12/09/08: TO>>-Samateme- >> The current R&D (Recession & Depression) around the world is a by-product of all the off-shoring of jobs from the USA. Now nobody can afford to buy the new products. This will cause layoffs in the off-shored countries, causing fewer left to buy new products. A self-fueling economy killing machine. I guess paybacks a Better keep that 401K money in STABLE for a while longer. -no-ky-

Comment 12/09/08: To WhyNoBenefits... I was RA'd this past summer from BTV. I wasn't able to draw unemployment until after my "termination" date (30 days from notification). I did sign the paperwork in order to receive the separation package. That did not keep me from getting unemployment. The key was to apply immediately upon being told I was being RA'd..because it did take about a month for them to "investigate" yada/yada/yada. So while you're still getting paid by IBM-they will turn you down for benefits-but as soon as you''ve had your exit itnerview-then everything kicks in (at least that was my experience). -kicked 2 the curb after 27yrs-

Comment 12/08/08: To readers of this comment section: please join the Alliance as a member for $10 a month or as an associate member for only $5 a month. Help sustain and grow the Alliance@IBM CWA organization and this web site. This site is the only true site for IBM employee issues. This organization is the only employee/retiree organization that is YOUR advocate in the workplace, with the media and with our representatives in Washington DC. Please click 'joi' above or on our front page of this web site today! -Alliance-

Comment 12/08/08: Our IGA project is being offshored to the GDC in 2009. We've all been told that we're going to have to find new jobs. How are we supposed to be motivated to train our replacements when jobs available are so scarce? How are we supposed to put aside our worries, suck it up, and train our replacements? -Worried-

Comment 12/08/08: Manpower technical contractors hit with a 11.5% pay cut. Also hearing 12/10 STG layoffs -Wall St Sammy-

Comment 12/08/08: Has anyone heard of a 2nd overtime lawsuit from the reclassification of employees that took place in Feb 08? -Blue on IBM-

Comment 12/08/08: I've read some posts here mentioning that some people were disqualified from getting unemployment benefits after they accepted the RA agree and paid severance. If that's true, can someone tell me why that's so? It seems to me if you're RA'ed, you are out of work so regardless of whether you get severance or not so you should be entitled to unemployment benefits. -WhyNoBenefits-

Comment 12/08/08: I heard System x will no longer be part of STG as of January 2009, looks like the Lonovo takeover of System x maybe true… Also, rumors of 30% cuts in STG accross the board in 09 and huge lay-offs in DOT.COM.. IBMCA -IGSCA-

Comment 12/08/08: Check this out. --

Comment 12/08/08: Here is a local link on the Global Logistics sale to Geodis Seeing the Asset Recovery Center and Unit parts Return center is included in this it is a hell of a lot more then 'several' employees locally that are affected.-Concerned-

Comment 12/08/08: Think about it. IBM is selling services at below US support prices That is, the US employees cost too much to support accounts. Brazil/India are much cheaper. IBM doesn't care about being able to support these accounts because #1: they just may sell this area of their business and #2: that's what 1-800-IBM-SERV is for - those people who claim to be technical support, but can't even spell UNIX, or claim to Linux admins because they run Ubuntu at home. And now with the GDCs in play, that's IBM's out to paying severance. Sure, your job is moving to Fishkill (or Boulder), and you can keep your job if you relocate, but if you can't, you have 30 days to find another IBM job or you're out on your ear, no severance because they offered you employment. Sneaky as all hell - the only folks in any position to relocate are single (no spouse/children to consider) and
living in apartments. Who can afford to even attempt to sell a house in today's market. I'm getting out as soon as I can. -waiting_for_the_axe-

Comment 12/08/08: Comments culled from yahoo ibm stock board: I was just told by a very reliable source (Director), that IBM will announce approximately 16K in layoffs in early January. These layoffs will be in US locations. I believe many of these will be in sales related jobs, but, that is only my thought. Rumor is internally that IBM will layoff 20-40% of US/NA sales force in 2009 starting in January (I'm guessing not only sales but all US workforce will be hit). US market has not been growing for years and this gives corporate america the chance now to truly downsize US employees and continue their investment overseas in BRIC countries as well as support the outsourcing trend that puts India as IBM's number 1 workforce by 2010. Shame on the entry by whoever who thinks all IBMers buy 40K cars and shamefully spend. That is not the case. We are thoughtful savers who watched our pension stolen and our 401K's now plunge. We are the best and brightest in the US, graduating at top unversities at the top of our class/and strong honest work ethic. We are engineers and science majors. We've seen our pensions stolen and now what we thought was safe/white collar jobs outstourced. Salaries have been frozen for the past 5 years with no increase for the price of inflation for senior employees. Those are the cold hard facts. NO finance industry, no manufacturing and now no high tech jobs in the US. What is left? This country has a tough road a head as the laws of steady state kick in and wages try to equalize across the planet. 25 years dedicated to a company with endless overtime and commitment/doesn't matter. While tax bailed out wall street and banks are worrying because their end of year bonses will be cut (shameful that tax payers are allowing failing companies to pay any bonses while taking tax dollars), the rest of the professional working world is worried whether or not we will have jobs in 2009. Oh yes, the job layoffs have already started a month ago in IBM. I've gotten 2 resumes from top IBM resources in the past month and no jobs to move to in the rest of IBM /they're all frozen! All high tech companies on the outside have hiring freezes as well. There is no where to hide. I' don't seee how the economy can possibly turn around at this point .Any rallies are bear rallies and a good time to sell! -Samateme-

Comment 12/08/08: all the btv cleaning staff was told jan 5 was their last day, wonder if sam & ditoro cleans their own work bathroom !!! -sad in vt-

Comment 12/08/08: Selling GTS? If it raised the stock price for the executives to reap more of their lucrative options, you bet they would sell it. Nothing else matters to them. Do you think for a nanosecond that Sam and the rest of his cronies care that GTS is a good cash cow for them? They don't care. They only care about their own greedy selves now. -blue_pigs-

Comment 12/08/08: Sam is definitely not even close to a Santa Claus. He is worse than Ebeneezer Scrooge. -anonymous-

Comment 12/07/08: i heard there is a layoff date of january 5 2009..1000 employees from poughkeepsie and east fishkill. -flipper-

Comment 12/07/08: Gee, why sell GTS, why did IGS? Why have most asset performing accts moved to T/T during the past year...why is GTS now almost 88% outsourced to Steady State accts? Acct locations in Brazil and India that can be sold off as acct assets while still remaining IBM later on? Starting to get a picture yet? Think about it and you can have an answer. GTS used to make money, look at the accts and client demands that were given into...with the contract demands/penalties and other things that have arisen you might want to look again at the bottom line. This has only been serving as a press relations to pump up the stock of late and for dumping hard accts into. -Anon-

Comment 12/07/08: I thought GTS was a cash cow for IBM. Why get rid of it and to whom? And how can IBM still be a serious services company if it gets rid of GTS? -Anon-

Comment 12/07/08: We Just need to STOP outsourcing of IBM Jobs to China, Brazil and India. IBM CEO's and Management does not take care, they just backstab us when we worked for them for 30 to 40 years and one fine day they throw us out. Alliance Team and to all others here Please fill up the form under this url explaining outsource and offshore problem hope Mr.Obama will do something to save our Jobs. PLEASE WE NEED TO STOP OUTSOURCING AND SAVE OUR JOBS and SAVE OUR FAMILY. -Ramki-

Comment 12/06/08: blue with bluesky - Mainframe people that came from AT&T to IBM last December did not do much better. In June they announce a third of jobs going to Brazil over the next year...funny thing is IBM can't find enough skilled mainframe people to do the work...great planning by the IBM management. -Ex-AT&T-

Comment 12/06/08: look for all of ISC to be sold off soon.... stay tuned. -homerj-

Comment 12/06/08: IGS Global Logistics sold to Geodis.
Maybe this will mean job security and a raise. -sold-again-

Comment 12/05/08: SammyIBM - agree with you totally. Not only was my PDM an idiot...he was an all out jerk. After calling to tell me I was being RA'd, at the end of October, he never contacted me once after that in the following month. And about giveback - they hang the carrot in front of you, telling you that "giveback" is the difference between a "2" and "2+" rating. I participated in a white paper group which was a "giveback" criteria....but do you think that it made any difference in my rating? No way Jose - lying bastard PDMs. PDM's are just a bunch of spineless lackey's who suck up to upper management and lie through their teeth. My previous PDM had a 30% approval rating on Mgr. surveys for 3 years in a row...and yet he's still a PDM. If any of us "grunts" would have performed like that, we'd be out pounding the streets. SOS - if you can't handle a regular job in IBM....they make you a Manager. -OutsourceGWB-

Comment 12/05/08: To Curious, Yes, Yes, Yes and look at the last four posts as to how I can prove it...did mention another contractor and RA before end of year as well. GTS is going to be shelved out shortly and then sold is what we have heard and matches what we were told back in Aug. -IBM UC'd-

Comment 12/05/08: To>>>married_to_ibm_but_a_divorce_is_pending- >>> Your problem is that the definition of QUALIFIED in the USA is "WILL WORK FOR PENUTS" with NO RETIREMENT plan and NO HEALTH plan -chimp2-

Comment 12/05/08: To blue with bluesky: You make it sound like only the AT&T employees IBM "sold off" are going to be hit. AT&T is a massive company. They have local and long distance telephone services, cable TV, internet (e.g DSL), cell phone provider and who knows what else. I haven't seen any info on who exactly in AT&T is targeted, but from the AT&T people I work with, they have a good feeling about keeping their jobs (at least for another couple months - e.g the standard 1 year employment clause) -waiting_for_the_axe-

Comment 12/05/08: "I have noticed a number of employees leaving BTV with boxes and personal pocessions this week. Are these stealth layoffs? Can anyone in BTV confirm that someone in their dept or project has received a package and become unemployed this week? I'm sure IBM wants to keep layoffs very quite."
Sam Palmisano has been kissing ass and sucking up to Wall Street telling them how the current economic situation in the USA is a great opportunity for IBM. They have him on their short list as a nominee for CEO of the Year. (Check out the General Comment section here). It wouldn't surprise me that IBM management would do a stealth layoff in BTV. If you noticed IBM let the 100+ contractors go on election day so it would get buried on the back page of the news. IBM mangement can be very clever and very evil at the same time. -BTVer-

Comment 12/05/08: To Sarah: IBM is a global company. What made you think it was American only? -waiting_for_the_axe-

Comment 12/05/08: I am a former IBMer of 10 years back as a contractor. Was notified of pay cut 11/29, and yesterday was told today is my last day. Many other contractors and regulars are losing thier jobs this week in IGS/ITD -PW-

Comment 12/05/08: Approximately 300 from, software, and hardware effective Dec 3. Locations all over. Another group scheduled for Dec 10. -Archie Tect-

Comment 12/05/08: Hearing rumours in Rochester that all of ISC is to be vendored out. No details yet... -Anonymous-

Comment 12/05/08: I have noticed a number of employees leaving BTV with boxes and personal pocessions this week. Are these stealth layoffs? Can anyone in BTV confirm that someone in their dept or project has received a package and become unemployed this week? I believe this is being kept very quite. -very concerned-
Comment 12/05/08: I just watched CNN's morning news show reporting about the 533,000 jobs lost in the US last month. As a part of their coverage they listed the "good" news about the areas for jobs where there was lots of demand. Among the "hot" jobs they listed computer software engineers. I nearly choked on my breakfast hearing that there were more software engineering jobs than people to work them. Are they freaking kidding? So my question to this board is, what is going on?
Some possibilities:
a) CNN news is totally clueless,
b) there is a widespread conspiracy in the corporate world to masquerade the truth so as to facilitate more outsourcing or
c) I (and my spouse who is a 28+ year experienced, highly educated telecom R&D software engineer who hasn't had a real job since 2002) are the problem because we are lacking in skill, experience and/or competence. It is bad enough to be facing an impossible job market in your career, but to then be told over and over (e.g., like when Bill Gates says he cannot find capable software people in the US) that your field is "hot" really drives a nail into your chest. Talk about "adding insult to injury"... -married_to_ibm_but_a_divorce_is_pending-

Comment 12/05/08: IBM entire ISC sold to geodis -soontobegone-
Comment 12/04/08: Today AT&T announced 12,000 jobs to be cut starting December - 2009. IBM outsourced its entire Network Services division to AT&T in February. Here comes the layoffs. So much for AT&T being a good career move for the IBM network people that moved. More of a move to the bread line! -blue with bluesky-
Comment 12/04/08: Doug Grose was the only friend in armonk that BTV had. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/04/08: Layoff from STG.. my old manager got hit by it -Anonymous-
Comment 12/04/08: I work as Contractor for IBM Global Services, I have been informed of pay-cut of 15% effective 01DEC08. Received information from various sources about GDF - Global Delivery Framework in Boulder will go live for Wave1 in the 3rd week of Jan'09 -VisionIBM-
Comment 12/04/08: To IBM-UD'd: You said in comment 12/03/08: "Expect to see GTS up for sale in the near future around Feb-March after some more conversion....". Is that Global Technology Services? Is that the group moving to all these Global Delivery Centers? Also, what information do you have that supports your claim of GTS possibly being up for sale? Any insider info? Any idea how this may effect IGS or ITD? Just curious.... -curious-
Comment 12/04/08: Why are all the contract consulting jobs in America subcontracted to India firms? I thought, IBM was an American company. -Sarah-
Comment 12/04/08: The first part is what I was mentioning that was already developed by five other firms I can think of right now with IBM just thinking it might be worth developing in five years??? And you wonder why Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were made rich just ripping off IBM and Xerox when they could not figure out what to do??? -IBM UC'd-
Comment 12/04/08: BTVer Lets get real. Money talks and BS walks. New York State gave the best deal on taxes and the pilot program. Vermont let the deal slip away thinking IBM needed them. As to to employee talent you must really have some blinders on or never got out of Essex Jct. Any IBMer with talent already has a resume in hand and ready for AMD. RPI students, Albany nanotech grads, Albany nanotech workers all are ready to jump onto the AMD wagon. Unless IBM makes some great offers. All AMD has to do for me is make an offer close to what I make now and a few bennies and I am out of here. -Still Here-
Comment 12/04/08: "Here's a link to information on the AMD restructuring and foreign investment in "The Foundry Company." There's a quote from John Kelly on the front page....and former IBMer Doug Grose is the new company's CEO."
Very interesting article. Doug Grose is a good man and a real loss to IBM. Funny how the good managers leave IBM for better jobs. You are right, this will create opportunities for BTV employees if the site closes. If IBM executives had half a brain they would have invested in BTV where the employee talent was instead of building the new fab in Fishkill. But that is a different story. John E Kelly III ( I love his name with all the III's) is part of the problem. He is a NY bigot. I don't trust him. -BTVer-

Comment 12/04/08: And you just have to wonder...
"IBM has just released a list of five innovations it thinks we'll see in the next five years, and they're ridiculous. It's the kind of crap we laugh at when we see old Life magazine from the 40's predicting airship kitchens by the year 2000.
Here's the list:
-Energy saving solar technology printed and stuck onto asphalt, paint and windows
-A crystal ball to help you monitor health
-We will talk to the Web, and the Web will talk back
-We will have our own digital shopping assistants
-Forgetting will become a distant memory via smart appliances in every area of the home and office
Seriously, your big prediction for the next five years of technological innovation is talking internet? Are you f***ing serious? Every single one of these predictions is laughable and idiotic. Seriously, a touchscreen in a dressing room to help you call someone to get you a different size is not an innovation, nor is it something that we will need to wait five years for. If that was a good idea, we'd have it now, but it's not, so we don't. You would think that a company that exists in the tech sphere would have a clue about the types of short-term advances we can expect. Oh well, better go make some more unfunny ads to run incessantly during football games! Watch the video here: It would just be tragic if it wasn't the delusion of what some have already said...-IBM UC'd-

Alliance Reply: Although it does appear to be a list of ridiculous predictions; an execption, prediction number one, is already a reality as an application. Solar cells are now being manufactured wiith NanoSolar technology. They use four elements to manufacture ink that is applied to a thin foil; as a solar cell that converts light into electricity with a micrometers-thick layer of a copper-indium-gallium selenide (CIGS) semiconductor. This ink technology could be used on other surfaces to serve as a solar panel that produces green energy and supplies power to cities, towns, villages, etc. all over the country. IBM, however, cannot take credit for this technology. Too bad Corporate IBM couldn't have developed this in THEIR labs and applied it to THEIR factories, such as BTV, Endicott, San Jose, etc. ....But that's a whole different discussion.
Comment 12/04/08: Here's a link to information on the AMD restructuring and foreign investment in "The Foundry Company." There's a quote from John Kelly on the front page....and former IBMer Doug Grose is the new company's CEO. -Think-
Comment 12/03/08: How many people in the ibm global logistics that was sold to the company in France? -Young Lady-
Comment 12/03/08: To -BFL-: I appreciate the thanks, but the credit for the Asia Pacific cuts link actually belongs to -cuts- -Currently Temp-lemental-
Comment 12/03/08: I have to wonder if AMD was approached by IBM to purchase the BTV site last year amidst speculation of AMD building a new mfg. plant in Malta, just north of Albany, NY. Too late now; AMD, in conjunction with an investment company in the middle east, is forming "The Foundry Company," aided with huge ($1.2B) incentives promised by New York State. They will begin construction in Malta on a $3.2B+ plant next year. Actually, AMD&Co have until July 2009 to commit to the deal. Perhaps BTV IBMers will have a nearby refuge before long: Malta is just 130 miles from Essex Jct. and the plan is for some 1400 permanent jobs. A recent piece (there are many others):
Regardless of all the hype, it seems odd for a money-losing company to build yet another manufacturing plant in an over-capacity market....and odd as well to see NY State's taxpayer money funding a largely-foreign investment. Hopefully somebody out there knows what they're doing.... -Think-
Alliance Reply: We received your contact us email, and decided to combine both posts you sent to us. One had the link and one didn't.

Comment 12/03/08: I am also a CDI contractor to IBM who received a pay-cut, approx. 15% -PlaneLady-
Comment 12/03/08: Would it be a BAD thing if BTV was sold? Like you said, IBM hasn't invested anything in the site lately, maybe some other company would. As long as I get to keep my job, I really wouldn't mind working for some other company (maybe a Japanese-owned one) that cares a little more about its employees. I used to think working for IBM was great... super benefits, job security... back then, that wasn't far fetched. Problem is, I'm not so sure I trust the current senior level management at BTV to be able to make decisions for themselves without guidance from the Big Blue Daddy. -AnotherBTVer-
Alliance Reply: For the sake of argument; IBM's track record on selling their sites to other companies is seldom better for the existing employees. A new company formed from the old IBM tends to treat its employees worse, than IBM did. Case in point; Endicott Interconnect. They bought the IBM Endicott site with the help of the then NYS Gov George Pataki; who preached that the remaining jobs both in IBM and EI would be 'saved' (about 4000). Two weeks after the ink was dry on the agreement between IBM and EI; EI fired 200 people and continued to get rid of the ex-IBM employees, in spurts of 30 or 40 at a time.... Always under the radar of the WARN act. EI started in year 2002, with around 2000 former IBMers. They ended up with about 1200 after 2 years. EI is a private company, so they didn't owe the public any explanation whatsoever. The Press never was able to know the true exact count of poeple working there or laid-off . Be careful what you wish for.
Comment 12/03/08: In the event an employee's job is moved to one of the US Based Global Delivery Centers, and is given the option to move closer to the GDC and in the unlikely event IBM provides a relocation package, does anybody know the details of these packages? Or do they vary? In a housing disaster the US faces today, I can't see where anybody would be willing to attempt to sell a house knowing it will take at LEAST 6 months to sell. Just wondering what IBM provides in their relocation packages. -waiting_for_the_axe-
Comment 12/03/08: Looks like big blew is trying to spread the wealth. Supply other organizations with the tools to screw employees (a.k.a. "Human Capital"). -Mistressofthei5-
Comment 12/03/08: Expect to see GTS up for sale in the near future around Feb-March after some more conversion....There has been talk of less China and more into India, Bangalore campus getting spread into other divisions as well. There will be one more round of RA's that we know of by end of year and should be mostly SA/TE/TL's as the PM's are mostly gone or needed only on customer facing and rest are going through the IBM certs at Bangalore. For some projects expect to get callbacks in periods of end of Jan through March as subs to prev IBM'ers and the offer will be a 10-20% less with no benefits as the SDLC starts up with many customer bases. Don't get hopes up, mostly looking for specific skill sets and customer interactions-specific Seibel, SAP, etc are the ones I heard mentioned. -IBM UC'd-
Comment 12/03/08: I was a part of the law suit for overtime, however, I was lucky enough to get a promotion before the pay cuts came through. The promotion was not monetary, but instead a lateral move into another exempt position. At least avoiding the 15% pay cut seems like a raise in these hard economic times. This seems typical of the corporate world. I do agree that management has a lot of information about us, including survey info, etc. I don't believe a frivilous lawsuit will do anything about pay cuts or being layed off because you were a part of the overtime lawsuit. We all work "AT WILL" , these are voluntary positions at IBM and they reserve the right to fire, lay off, cut pay at will as well, and there is not a damned thing that will resolve this unless there is some collective bargaining in place. You can't pit a monkey against the 10,000 pound gorilla, unless you have one thousand 100 pound monkeys fighting it. -IBM7777-
Comment 12/03/08: 15 -20 IBM employees were RA'ed on 12/01/2008. These employees were assigned to the Bank of America site in Chicago. All were LONG term bank employees who got hired by IBM as part of ABN-AMRO Bank,NL outsourcing deal of 2005. It has been a continious RA effort by IBM to RA small groups at a time to avoid a lot of headlines. The total number RA'ed is likely to be in the thousands as group after group has disappeared during the last 3 years. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/03/08: Starting to sound like we should get yet another lawsuit going. I got canned last year along with another guy on my team. We were the only two that got money from the overtime lawsuit. I heard from my peers later that the team lead mentioned to them, that the manager got a copy of everybody that was in that suit, and was making decisions on who went first based on that. Managers have an awful lot of info on you, including those past "manager reviews" that we used to fill out, that were supposed to be anonymous. Managers know exactly what you say about them so never fill those things out either. -Another#-
Comment 12/03/08: to -Currently Temp-lemental- Thank you for posting the link about the Asia-Pacific cuts. When was the last time there was a voluntary layoff in the US? 1995? "IBM Japan is conducting a voluntary retirement scheme, which was publicly announced some time ago. The Career Choice Retirement Plan is a financial assistance program for employees who voluntarily retire at the age of 55. "Since this is a voluntary retirement scheme, IBM Japan cannot predict how many employees will be involved," a company spokesperson said. -BFL-
Comment 12/02/08: to -Alliance reply- Can you tell us what you do with the information you are requesting from people being laid off? I've seen you ask for this information before, but what do you do with it? Are you keeping statistics? If so, do you post it?
"Alliance reply: Sorry to hear of your job loss. Please send the Alliance a copy of the resource action package (the section that has ages/titles/selected, title page, and the section that mentions the Rosenberg suit.) Our address is on front page of this web site.." -whytheinformation-
Alliance reply: It is the proof that a resource action took place. We also send copies to the media and lawyers; as well as tally up the number of people who lose their jobs and their ages.

Comment 12/02/08: IBM announced it is selling off it's Global Logistics division worldwide. -Concerned-
Comment 12/02/08: OutsourceGWB - I'm in SEA&T and I have to agree that the practice group sucks since they want 48 to 53 hours each week. The group is screwed up with no vision and there is no way to compare yourself with your fellow employees. Everyone is kept in the dark. Managers in this group are complete idiots. The giveback is complete joke but you have to do something otherwise they label you as not being a team player. -SammyIBM-
Comment 12/02/08: I want to believe that 2009 will not be the bubble-bursting of 2001, but I have a feeling, much like Eric Lundquist of CIO Insight, that a big portion of work in technology over the near future will be for systems integrators, contract project management and other programming and business analyst skills that can be outsourced (and not necessarily offshored) using existing or low-cost infrastructure. As Lundquist points out, the CTOs and CIOS of companies he is talking to are dealing with internal customer and financial data issues. These guys need as close to real time numbers for budgets that they can get, and are looking for easier ways to make data consistent, and they need it--like now. Don't we all. -IBM UC'd-
Comment 12/02/08: It would not surprise me at all if BTV is up for sale. IBM has, over the years, followed a pattern of selling any manufacturing entity that produced a commoditized item. US manufacturing facilities for commodities are rarely competitive with their Asian counterparts. Add to that the cost of IBM's hierarchy and you have an unsustainable business model. Look at IBM's history with printed circuit boards (raw and populated), printers, disk drives and PCs. In each case (if memory serves), a plant or business was sold off and the new owner was promised some segment of "guaranteed" revenue from IBM for some time period. It doesn't take a crystal ball to predict what's next for BTV....just a bit of 20:20 hindsight. -Think-
Comment 12/01/08: IBM Asia-Pacific culls 2600 jobs:,24897,24739480-15306,00.html -cuts-
Comment 12/01/08: Regarding number of wafer starts (multiple posters). According to our 2nd level (BEOL) a couple weeks ago, the number is supposed to "possibly" get to the lower end (throughout the EOY/ 1st Qtr...Suffice it to say, it doesn't look good. -Currently Temp-lemental-
Comment 12/01/08: Had my exit interview today. Was one of 126 canned in GBS U.S. today. Was in SEA&T sweatshop working minimum 53 hour weeks (and they wanted you to perform "giveback" activities in addition). Layoff as I see it, was due to the fact that I wouldn't live out of a suitcase (travel to External Accounts) or that I got some money from the Rosenberg vs. IBM overtime lawsuit (which was even mentioned in the "resource action" package). Second time I've been "downsized" from IBM - won't be a third....that's for sure. -OutsourceGWB-
Alliance reply: Sorry to hear of your job loss. Please send the Alliance a copy of the resource action package (the section that has ages/titles/selected, title page, and the section that mentions the Rosenberg suit.) Our address is on front page of this web site..
Comment 12/01/08: I'll echo a little bit of what Think and AnotherBTVer are saying. I've been here in BTV for over 25 years. The chip business has always been cyclical. It's very, very bad right now, but it's always been up and down. BTV managed to smooth out those bumps pretty well until this one. What makes BTV vulnerable is that (AFAIK) we make nothing for any IBM products. What makes BTV unique is that there's stuff we do for the Gov't that cannot be done by a non-US company (hush-hush, locked doors and all that). What makes BTV cheap is that it's old technologies, running on old tools, in old buildings. Like AnotherBTVer says, we've been in lows like this in the past. What we've lost is the faith that IBM will hang in there for things to recover. Would IBM sabotage BTV? I don't see that. Would IBM make a decision that looked to us like it was favoring EFK over BTV? Yes, I can see that. We'd never know the whole reason (maybe a deal with NY, maybe a tax deal, maybe a consolidation of resources). -Nuther BTV'er-
Comment 12/01/08: To AnotherBTVer: Where have you been over the last 10 - 15 years? Ever since NY won the contract for the new manufacturing fab in the early 90's BTV has been going downhill. The IBM corporation has not made any significant investment in BTV in over 10 years. The manufacturing tools are old and outdated. The technologies manufactured in BTV are old an no longer leading edge. All new technology development has been transferred to the ASTC in Fishkill. BTV does not make anything for IBM machines anymore. BTV is on its way out. Yes, this was planned by the executives of the IBM corporation. IBM wants to consolidate its operations in NY. When IBM finds a buyer for the BTV facility it will be quickly sold. Get your head out of the sand. Open your eyes and see what is going on. -AnotherBTVerToo-
Comment 12/01/08: In this current economic client, no it doesn't make sense. But the economy will turn around (eventually) and our customers will be ready for IBM to make the best semiconductor solutions in the world. The problem is, we are facing fierce competition from overseas companies that have similar manufacturing capabilities. What separates IBM from them right now is the quality of the product we make. We BARELY compete on customer cost. So, we need to cut costs. If we can't do it in energy, materials, waste, etc, then it will be labor. That will happen whether there is a union or not. -AnotherBTVer-
Comment 12/01/08: While I have no specific insider information relative to BTV, EFK or other IBM mfg. facilities, it is safe to say that the semiconductor industry as a whole has too much capacity. Increases in wafer size (assuming they occur as they have in the past) and ongoing moves to send manufacturing abroad (particularly for the fabless companies) mean less for US semi plants to do. Keeping extra facilities open may not make business sense unless additional work is secured. In the current economic climate, is this likely? -Think-
Comment 12/01/08: Where would you get the idea that IBM has planned for BTV to go down the tubes? Why would a large corporation purposely sabotage one of its sites? It doesn't make any sense. EFK business I'm sure is down as well. It's the economy pure and simple. Economy down-people hold off on electronics purchases-electronics related businesses go into a slow down. Economy picks back up-people buy again-business picks up. Pretty simple. Why would IBM "plan" to have only 200 (or whatever ridiculous number you want to believe) wafers starts when the site has fixed costs which need a certain number of wafer starts to overcome? Labor is only one of the many fixed costs, and you can only cut it so much. BTV, EFK and IBM have to ride out the low we are currently in just like lows we've experienced in the past. I've never understood everyone's seeming need to panic. -AnotherBTVer-
Comment 11/30/08: BTV layoffs coming this week. Tuesday? 800 to 1000 BEOL main target -Very concerned-
Comment 11/30/08: Open Letter to Sam Palmisano: Sam, as you close the 2008 year receiving your $10 million annual salary on top of the millions of dollars in stock options and bonuses you will receive, I want you to think about all the employees you have been screwing by laying them off, cutting their pay, sending their jobs overseas, ruining their holidays, their families, their careers, and their lives. You are a closed minded asshole. Now I know the real Ebenezer Scrooge.. Sam Palmisano. I hope you rot in hell. You are on my bad list. -Santa Claus-
Comment 11/30/08: Alliance Webmaster Comment: The topic concerning the president-elect, the president, and stem cell, etc. discussion has been moved to the General Visitor Comments section. Please discontinue posting those type of comments here. This comments section is for the posting of specific information of Job cuts, Resource Actions and Firings, and the discussion thereof.
Comment 11/29/08: Specific wafer start numbers should not be posted here. Yes, BTV is operating at a fraction of capacity, but specific numbers (capacity and/or loading) are probably sensitive. -Nuther BTV'er-
Comment 11/28/08: What about the % of lost jobs and the % of work visas allowed into the US? What about the salary for "that work" everyone claims no one wants to do and the real truth? Look at the jobs available across the country and the salary at $7.00 per hour. We the people need to join together to attempt to stand up for ourselves. A union is one way to do that, because right now a job in the US in IBM that paid $15 per hour in 1978 now pays $9.50. We are upset about our higher wage jobs, the people on wages at the bottom are really hurting. No elected official is going to help us. Our only hope is to join and stand as a group. -Young Lady-

Comment 11/28/08: "Would you believe my priest told me he heard BTV will have a major RA in February, about 1200 people. We were talking about meeting the needs of families given the economy ... fyi, BTV has also put the breaks on mask builds unless you have upper mgmt approval and wafer starts are now only 200 wafers a day. All of this in preparation, no doubt, to a reduced workforce. -VT-"
I've heard this news swirling around BTV too. This place is dead right now. No work and everyone is waiting for the shoe to drop. For a site that can handle 1000 wafer starts per day easily we are only 20% of our capacity. The IBM corporation has really been planning this for years. Ever since the new fab was built in Fishkill the writing has been on the wall for BTV. Did you ask the Priest to say a prayer for us? -BTVer-

Comment 11/28/08: Not that it is much of a difference, but where are people getting that BTV has 200 Wafer starts a day? The figures I have been getting from a Lead in PC says we have been between 300-400 a day, including 340 was the figure we had on Thanksgiving. I definitely know it seems like there are -50 wafer starts online as it is slooooow. -BTVNightOwl-

Comment 11/28/08: "IBM does not care about its workers. We are all on a short list"
So true. Thye prove this every passing day. Unless, you are one of Sam's cronies: then you are cared for by IBM lavishly and immune from any resource action.

Comment 11/28/08: IBM does not care about its workers. We are all on a short list. -j-

Comment 11/27/08: Regarding the creation of high tech (white collar) jobs in the US using the influence of the executive and legislative branches of the US government: Say for example, under the guise of homeland security, a law was passed to require that all US citizen's personal, financial and health records were to remain onshore in US facilities and access to these records was to be maintained with a higher level of security than the law now proscribes (e.g., US citizen health records databases are to be treated with the same security as veterans health records in the VA system). Given such a legal requirement I suspect that the creation and preservation of US IT jobs would be dramatic and significant. Come to think of it, why don't we have such a requirement? Perhaps if there was a strong union of IT professionals we could bring something like this up for real consideration. Just wondering... -married_to_ibm_but_a_divorce_is_pending-

Comment 11/27/08: -Captain WTF-Congrats, you have just defined the meaning I tried to show with off shoring and how management truly sees it, not as some warped version of Dr. Evil that people dumb down to believe. If more events like what happened on Friday occur, then some might see the locale as a disadvantage and unstable as well...that does effect the tax advantage, but don't think that will do it all. What will really change if this country ever gets smart enough to do a flat/fair tax it would do more to stop offshoring than anything else and polliticans truly cannot stop and the regulations or dumbfounded regulatory ideals only increase the problems a 1,000 fold. One of the main reasons for increasing is a 2007 bill that Pelosi did and that increases workers rights supposedly but it brings about an increase on the employer to pay more into FICA, SS and the general State tax base on employees and really did nothing but increase the off shoring at IBM and other related. Look at Ireland and other countries that have adopted a fair/flat tax and notice the incredible outsourcing and establishment of corporate bases there that companies have established. Exxon, Cisco and MANY others have moved their bases there while still maintaining a "National" office here that moves the majority of funds to those locales and IBM is soon to follow. To those who always promote the proletariat line of "take from the rich", well good jobs are not created by a worker making $30K a year, they are made by those investing. When more government jobs are created....great - but WE ALL PAY FOR THEM. This is nothing more than what you learn the first month of a MBA when you truly learn the costs of a tax base and operations....all of the senior Tiers at IBM know this and you have to realize that. A union would be great, but too many people see what has happened when power goes to the head of others (AFL-CIO/Teamsters/UAW) in which they have destroyed their own jobs when the cost of each auto is currently $ 2,950 for health benefits alone to cover a union agreement. Management fears that and you have to work with them to help the realization of it...want more proof? The unions in the last election pushed one candidate thinking he would proffer a bailout and save their jobs, but that's not going to happen. IBM does need some help in this to really influence direction of the company or I see the entire US base to be only 15% before 2010 and I am not kidding. -UC'd-

Comment 11/27/08: Would you believe my priest told me he heard BTV will have a major RA in February, about 1200 people. We were talking about meeting the needs of families given the economy ... fyi, BTV has also put the breaks on mask builds unless you have upper mgmt approval and wafer starts are now only 200 wafers a day. All of this in preparation, no doubt, to a reduced workforce. -VT-

Comment 11/26/08: "For example, if the president of the United States says we’re not going to allow stem cell research and enforces it, but the prime minister of Singapore says they welcome it, then the stem cell related jobs will go to Singapore."
Uhh, the government hasn't outlawed stem cell research. It just won't fund it.

I think all you people that don't want IBM jobs to be offshored are just racist. What would Obama think of all you people not being good citizens of the world and spreading the wealth. -Anonymouse-
Alliance Reply: Why do you think anti-offshoring is racist? Sure, there are plenty of racists in America; but offshoring is about losing jobs and the greed of corporations to get cheaper labor costs and relaxed or non-existent environmental/working condition standards. If countries like China, India, Brazil, Russia, and Vietnam bothered to analyze US company motives, they would find no patriotism nor loyalty to their country, coming from companies like IBM. IBM is not 'spreading the wealth' to other countries; they are stealing it from those countries just like they did from the US. If you doubt that; just take a look at the pollution being generated by Corporations in India and China, and soon Vietnam. Technology companies, in particular, are dumping their high tech trash in these countries because there are 'opportunities' for chinese, vietnamese, or indian trash collectors to make money; while they inhale and absorb all the toxic materials and chemicals from the burning and disassembly of computers, printers, etc. without any concern whatsoever. The corporation's profits are poisoned profits.

Comment 11/25/08: Obama thinks his plan will increases but it won't. It will reduce this countries econemy. -Anonymous-

Comment 11/25/08: Hi Anonymous-(11/24/08) and others who have this info: I want to post under and explain
the issue by using IBM as a company which is causing thousands and thousands of jobs to be lost in U.S.A. Can someone summarize the depth of this issue by using the numbers (approximate numbers or % will be OK). Please post it here. I will use it not only to post on the above Obama site but write to my representatives and newspapers. -WantsToAct-

Comment 11/25/08: To -A Concerned IBM'er- President - elect Obama would LOVE to create professional jobs. As would President Bush. It is just that they cannot as they do not OWN a company to do so with. Other then professional jobs within the Federal Government that would require expanding the Federal Government there is little a President or a Congress can do. Increasing Federal spending creates employment only as long as the spending continues. A short term fix at best. As I have said before , Strong Companies along with Strong Unions will save the American Economy without destroying the workers lives. The strong Unions will force a strong company to innovate and win against their competition rather then take away from employees to make their financial goals. Like IBM used to do. -Exodus2007-
Alliance Reply: You make some excellent points; not the least of which is that the employees must form and build the union and stand up collectively; thereby showing their strength. This is the only way to affect real change within a company. You've said in previous posts that
"The one thing you cannot wait for is anyone else to come to your rescue and save your job." Precisely. That's why we continue to tell our visitors to these boards; that THEY are the union, if they want it. No union bosses, organizers or political party activists will come into the company and do it for you. We still receive posts from people who scream in capital letters, "It's up to the employees to organize, blah, blah, blah. I've heard the same claptrap from you Alliance people over and over.....". These are people who refuse to believe in unions as a method of leveling the playing field or at least trying to. Globalism is here to stay. Corporate Executive control will never be relinquished or compromised without a struggle. Count on it. If anyone as a worker is not willing to fight for their right to a contract; then they need to silence their complaints
. IBM used to foist a motto on their 'bulletin boards" within their manufacturing plant in Endicott. It read: "Lead, Follow, or Get out of the way". This motto applies to unions and employees discussion of unions.
Another popular 'saying' was posted on their "bulliten boards". It read: "Some people make things happen; Some watch what happens; and some wonder what happened." This also applies.
Comment 11/24/08: We Just need to STOP outsourcing of IBM Jobs to China, Brazil and India. IBM CEO's and Management does not take care, they just backstab us when we worked for them for 30 to 40 years and one fine day they throw us out. Alliance Team and to all others here Please fill up the form under this url explaining outsource and offshore problem hope Mr.Obama will do something to save our Jobs. PLEASE, WE NEED TO STOP OUTSOURCING AND SAVE OUR JOBS and SAVE OUR FAMILY. -Anonymous-

Comment 11/24/08: IH8T3IBM- IBM probably reduced the bill rate on the PO with CDI. CDI probably reduced your salary to keep their 'profit' the same. Either way, we (the average worker) gets the short end of the stick. Working for a contracting firm, working for IBM truly stinks. You get screwed six ways to Sunday. Note to IBM UC'd - can you give a little more detail on which areas of IBM that are going to get ousted in 2009? -anon-

Comment 11/24/08: "Just received an email Friday night from my contracting company, CDI, stating that IBM was cutting my pay because of the "economic downturn". What a bunch of horse s**t!! Anyone else get a recent cut this week?"
I haven't yet but I bet Sammy and his cronies will exceed their performance goals for the year since they cut your pay. They will get a big increase in pay and bonus on top of the millions per year they already get for the saving they achieved by cutting your pay. People, when are we going to wise up to the scam going on with these corporate crooks? Let's get a Union so we have a means to fight back. Right now Sammy keeps stiffing us in the ass and we can't do anything about it. With a Union we can fight back. Go Alliance!!!! -Joe Blue-

Comment 11/24/08: -Air American-: American jobless rates ARE climbing. Its a phony number based on applications for unemployment benefits. Once you exceed your weeks of benefits you are no longer counted. With the housing slowdown and the approach of winter, construction is way down. That causes the jobless numbers to spike. The number of people out of work is really much worse then that number represents. People out of work over a year are no longer counted. But still unemployed. McCain lost more because of a viceral hatred for Pres. Bush that some Americans carried over to McCain then for his own shortcomings. Whoever won the Democratic nomination was going to win the election no matter who the Republicans ran. That Obama only won the popular vote by the population difference between New York City and the State of Wyoming tells me that McCain did a good job and Obama did a poor one. It really should not have been that close. People are panicing over the stock market. It is where it was two years ago. 7000 in 2006. What else has doubled in value in two years?? Looks to me that the market was way overpriced and its adjusting. That the idiots that pass for reporters these days just keep harping on how bad things are which drives the herd mentality that is the Stock Market ever downward has more negative effect then anything the government can do to stop it. The dow will recover as will all the markets given time. How do we create more jobs? Create more businesses! . Governments can only create short term work like roads projects by spending tax money. They spend the money on contracts with companies that actually hire people. So job creation is a function of business, not government. Companies create long term work . If I know a way to fix this mess Maybe I would be president elect. If I was that smart though I would not want that job!! -Exodus2007-

Comment 11/24/08: Dear -Captain WTF- They can and have been INsourced. Thats where you allow illegal immigrants to migrate freely into your country and work for lower then minimum wage with no benefits which forces your own countrymen to take lower and lower wages to compete. On the business side you pay lower wages and no taxes cuz they are illegal. But you still collect full price for your jobs. If anyone finds fault with you call them racists and browbeat them with America is founded by Immigrants and pass laws allowing drivers licenses for illegals which leads to motor voter laws which creates a voting block for the illegals . Make sure the illegals are welcomed by allowing their children free educations paid for by the American Taxpayers and pretty soon ( Like NOW) Americans can find no jobs because Nafta has moved manufacturing to Mexico and Canada and Illegals have gobbled up the service industry jobs and construction labor jobs. Its the best in a world wide economy. Outsource the jobs for cheaper labor then Insource the Labor for Maximum profits when you can't outsource. If you can't get away with illegals use contractors who work cheap now because you have so weakened the US economy that they are glad just to have a job. Sound Familiar. If your found out Blame the Republicans, Or the Democrats. Does not matter as long as someone falls for it and does not stop it. Blame Racism, Blame the Whites, Blame the Blacks. Create distrust to keep Americans from banding together to save their economy. Buy those cheap goods from China. Buy those Foriegn cars. Put more Americans out of work. Then sit there and look for someone to blame. Because as long as you have someone else to blame it can't be your own fault could it? -Exodus2007-

Comment 11/24/08: I believe that the thousands of new jobs Mr. Obama says he will create are mostly non-professional, as mentioned by others' postings. I am on a commercial account that is driven by the financial bottom line; not quality of deliverables, customer sat, or repeat business signings! IBM and other large companies have lawyers, accountants etc. that are out-smarting the US government, and they will not be stopped from moving more jobs offshore because they hide the truth very well. I will continue to read this web site to understand what the union believes they can do to prevent the mass exodus of jobs to less skilled Global Resources based soley on cost. -A Concerned IBM'er-

Comment 11/24/08: To: -IBM UC'd- >>> What you say sounds good, academically. BUT - If we are laid off and the others are underpaid, WHO is going to buy whatever is made ? That is why this is now GLOBAL R & D (Recession & Depression). -no-ky-

Comment 11/24/08: Ladies and Gents, whether you are Reps or Dems-the fact in Upper Mgt thinking is the same, taxes are wasted profit and a matter how many methodologies from LEAN, Six Sigma, Agile, SAP and so on I have been in that Big Blue paid for the result is the shoring will continue for two main reasons ---I was there when Sam was in charge of that group and that is what got him where he is now for those WHO DON'T KNOW IT. Second all of the locales (India, China, Argentina where Steady State is already 100% as is GS at 80%) you are mentioning have tax rates that are next to the single digits THERE NOW and Sam has stressed that through the Team Mtngs ever since 2005. It is that simple, for every employee here there is a added cost of $ .60 on the dollar for government taxes that IBM is tacked to paying outright that you never see in addition to your paycheck draws to SS, Medicare, Fed and State can rebel rouse all you want but have heard it from both sides and the off shoring is slated to increase in ways you won't believe before Aug of 09. Would like to say more but only a narrow group is aware until more breaks I am not saying anything until I am 100% out, but not even SDM's are safe or even Natl Acct Mgrs...get it? Sam is a big fan of Obama and has been a supporter up and down the halls as well as in 2 emails he sent out, reasoning is that it proves him right and makes him look good to shareholders and supporters. Both candidates I was not fond of and Obama makes Sam look better to shareholders because of increased gov't taxes and a further reason to increase offshoring. Sam is not here for the 25 year plan, he is here for the "I survived another couple of years" and most at tiers 1-8 know it like you would not believe. That means cuts that wil make him look good and basing resources where he can max the law will stop that and can't, even in Communist China - I've been there during the Lenovo talks and they use N. Koreans in some plants because they are abused refuges or rented from N Korean government and work cheaper than even farmers in factories. Get used to that part, a union would help; but put it together with tax cuts and that works best. What happened the past couple of years has actually been an increase in taxes meaning more SR
emails (Statement of Resources) and since you know who only gets those, you have an idea where I sit. -IBM UC'd-

Comment 11/24/08: Just received an email Friday night from my contracting company, CDI, stating that IBM was cutting my pay because of the "economic downturn". What a bunch of horse s**t!! Anyone else get a recent cut this week? -IH8T3IBM-

Comment 11/24/08: Would anyone be will to share their stories in print? How ibm treats employees, layoffs, reductions, global resourcing. I was recently layed off and I feel our stories need to be told. IBM has been treating people like this because they can get away with it. Let me know if you have a story and/or a possible smoking gun. -joe-
Alliance reply: Joe and others: please contact us if you want to share your stories. We have media contacts we can get you in touch with.

Comment 11/24/08: Hey Exodus, how would voting Republican save us from outsourcing jobs like we've seen for the past 8 years under the Bush administration? The Big Business community has been enjoying all their tax cuts from the current administration but the jobless rate for Americans rises. McCain had no plan to do anything differently, which is why he lost. -Air American-
Comment 11/23/08: We were also told that 100% of our project (IGS GA) is losing jobs to the GDC (Global Delivery Center) in 2009. We were also told that our jobs are being off-shored to free up resources for "all the US commercial business we are losing". What a joke. Do they think we're such idiots that we would believe that? IBM execs smell like Bush...arrogant, dirty, and self-serving. -Anonymous-
Comment 11/23/08: Roadbuilding jobs cannot be offshored; while engineering, software, help desks, etc can easily be. And the overseas engineers will work for 10% of what we get here. This is possible for them because they have a very large poverty underclass who will do the menial work extremely cheaply. So they get a car wash or a shoeshine or the toilet cleaned for ten cents. A baby sitter or a cook or a housekeeper works for a dollar a day. This is the real problem we face in the USA: the corporations can buy our kind of labor more cheaply elsewhere. Our *only* real solution is to increase our productivity beyond theirs to the point that the corporations have no monetary advantage in going overseas. Alternatively, our pay will go downward until it meets that of the Indian engineer, at which point the work will start coming back. -Captain WTF-
Comment 11/23/08: To Exodus2007: Good points! That is why I voted Republican. Let the majority of those who voted for Obama along with those who did not but want to save this country act on my suggestion. See my prior post….Who knows? Obama may listen to the many who speak the same message, loudly and repetitively. Let’s not give up. Let IBM U.S.A employees’ message (bring back jobs to America) be heard and talked about on the news, written in the newspapers and acted on by the president elect, congress and senate. -BringBackJobsToUSA-
Comment 11/23/08: to -BringBackJobsToUSA- He wants to raise corporate taxes which will drive more jobs and maybe even corporate HQ's Offshore to avoid more taxes. He wants to create Government spending jobs like federal highways and bridges so you will be forced to depend on government contracts for your income. And as the government will be Democratic control guess how you will be forced to vote to keep working. Its a form of slavery called indentured servitude. You owe your job to a polical party so they own you. Obama is not worried about keeping your high tech high salaried jobs. He wants to keep those guys leaning on their shovels at a road project employed. They vote Democrat no matter what so the more of them they have the more votes they get. Be prepared to turn in your keyboards and pick up your shovels cuz thats where the job creation is going. Its Amazing that someone ran on higher taxes and socialized medicine and won. Without a real plan just vague made up numbers that changed speech to speech and no one called him on them. Change you can believe in!! NONE! -Exodus2007-
Comment 11/23/08: All----Please submit your ideas/concerns on how to prevent jobs loss in the U.S.A. including in IBM to reduce off-shoring, and instead bringing jobs back to U.S.A. citizens or permanent residents residing on U.S.A. soils. Please bring up as many factual data as possible to make your suggestions possible to follow up by the President Elect Obama.
This is new Obama’s Web site”.
I do not see that reducing off-shoring of jobs and creating these jobs in U.SA. is top priority of the new government at all. The 2.5 millions new jobs by 2011” to rebuild bridges, road and modernize schools is President Obama Elect 1-st priority. -BringBackJobsToUSA-

Comment 11/20/08: In a director meeting this week. The director indicates that all US GBS LCM and Dev resource in his team will be replaced by GDC (Global Delivery Center) resource (china, argentina, brazil, mexico, taiwan, singapore, russia, india) in 2009. This is to save money (estimated at 6.5) for our IGA S&D client and to free up resource for commercial accounts. hahahahahaha Does he think were stupid !!! We will train our replacements just like they just did in GTS with the SDM's SDM's then there will be no jobs. Good Luck to you , remember we have value and can use it to compete with the BLUOX -Anon-
Comment 11/20/08: -IBM UC'd- >> IF these people have not been gone for at least 1 year, IBM would have to hire them on as PERMANENT employees as continuation of their previous employment, IF they applied directly to IBM. If they work for an outside agency, then IBM could hire the agency and these people could do the job. So when you get canned, you are canned from direct employment for a while at the canner company. -NO-KY-

Comment 11/19/08: The "Big 3" automaker CEOs are....well, morons:
Safety?!?! Bill Gates famously flew economy class, at least in the U.S., and he's worth vastly more than any auto CEO. These jerks couldn't find an airline flight from Detroit to DC? Which raises an interesting question: with all this belt-tightening for the rest of us, including a new worldwide economy class travel policy, is IBM management getting rid of the private jets? If not, why not? But let's even leave aside the serious question of whether private jets make sense for business travel and turn instead to company-paid personal jet use. Last year, Sam Palmisano received $406,235 worth of *personal* use of private jet travel. That's golfing vacations, a pop over to a favorite deli across the country, ferrying a treasured pet, dropping a very lucky kid off at an expensive college, or whatever. The median for a Fortune 100 CEO was a still-grotesque $121,676. If IBM flew Sam merely like every other F-100 CEO last year, IBM would liberate enough savings to avoid laying off about 3 U.S. employees. (And that's assuming those 3 employees don't generate more revenue for IBM, which is of course not realistic.) So which 3 of you paid for Sam's above-median personal jet travel with your jobs? -Anonymous & Concerned-

Comment 11/19/08: HR keeping jobs posted like they are not filled for long periods of time. If you look at the open jobs and then you have to go back a section at the time 123456 ..... you will find the jobs listed, but hard to see them, because each time it takes you back to start. I believe they keep them posted to look like they can't find qualified people to support bringing in visas. Another thing has been noted, a regular IBM person works and takes classes to learn a new feature, mgt says sure you can work on the feature, but they are never allowed to work on the feature. A visa walks in and they get the new feature assignment, but have less experience than the regular. We all need to join up, because this direction is not changing. If you're reading here, then you're already worried, so join up. Together we can be heard, rather than knocking us off one at a time. We could make history! -Young Lady-

Comment 11/19/08: In response to the Alliance reply to IBMs libraries, yes.. I meant the IBM libraries, not a public library. -Anonymous-

Comment 11/19/08: "As for Sammy's millions, better uses come to mind, homeless shelters, hungry kids in Appalachia, schools."
How about if Sammy gives a little more of his millions to his employees at the bottom doing the work and stops stiffing them in the ass? This is where a Union would help. Go Alliance!!! -Down with Sammy-

Comment 11/19/08: "hearing BTV is having big cuts tomorrow, 11/18, 800-1100 .... the start of many changes for BTV; has anyone heard any of this? Nervous in BTV"
Yes, I have heard very credible information that this is going to definitely happen. It is not "if" but "when". The last time IBM had cuts in BTV it was on election day so that it would get buried in the news. This time it will be after Thanksgiving. BTV is on a death spiral down as it continues to layoff workers. The site no longer makes anything used in IBM products. It is just a matter of time before the doors close or it is sold. God Bless America. -Joe Blue-

Comment 11/19/08: IS IBM ACTUALLY HIRING?!?! Talked with several people including former people going to the job site and basically applying for thier old jobs after being laid of from contracting and then told they were "not approved" for a position they held for years??? Is this just a ruse for allowing H1B's? -IBM UC'd-

Comment 11/18/08: Responding to Sick of Sammy: There are a lot of battles to fight. Saving the site libraries isn't one of them (IMHO). I've been one of the biggest users of our site library, and I'm saddened to lose both the library and the librarian. Our librarian has been a HUGE help to me over the years. But I'm saddened by every loss we've had. I will miss the library's resources, but not that much, with everything that's available online. As for Sammy's millions, better uses come to mind, homeless shelters, hungry kids in Appalachia, schools. -Out There in the Wild-

Comment 11/18/08: Maybe Frank can go to work for Apple. :) -Marbles-

Comment 11/18/08: Libraries closing? Who cares really. The last time I went to the library to find something was in 1984, glad to see it go. They have this new fangled thing called "The Internet" and sorry, but you can find everything on it, including books that are in the library. Yes, PDFs of everything are available, learn to use something besides and antiquated Dewey decimal system. -Anonymous-
Alliance Reply: Please correct if this is wrong: The libraries being discussed here, are the IBM internal libraries, Not public libraries. Besides, most public libraries have internet access. Many have very updated computers and methods that allow searching for books and reading materials, DVD's, CD's, etc.; without the need to know the dewey decimal system. One would think that IBM's internal libraries have at least the same technology, no?

Comment 11/18/08: This article describes apparent layoffs at IBM in Rochester, Minnesota, including (unconfirmed) Frank Soltis: -Anonymous & Concerned

Comment 11/17/08: ... hearing BTV is having big cuts tomorrow, 11/18, 800-1100 .... the start of many changes for BTV; has anyone heard any of this? -Nervous in BTV-

Comment 11/17/08: "IBM is closing libraries at these location: Essex Junction, Austin, Rochester, Poughkeepsie, and Tucson as of December 1, 2008." Interesting that Sammy approves the closure of these libraries. Have you seen Sammy offer up a portion of his millions in stock options and bonuses to keep a single library open? No. If Sammy were president he would be closing the public libraries. He is a greedy ignorant stupid bastard. -Sick of Sammy-

Comment 11/17/08: "I have to do his work now - am now doing 4 times the workload as of 18 months ago"
Why are you doing 4 times the workload? I'll wager that it's not in a 40 hour work week. It's your manager's responsibility to 'manage' the workload. If he doesn't have enough employees to do the work in a 40 hour week, it's on his shoulders, not yours. Your family is more important than IBM - don't give your life to them.

Comment 11/17/08: CTG in RTP... We have all taken a "pay cut" over the past several years due to very little or no increase in pay and a pittance for bonuses. We lost some good CTG people doing important work, so I guess you should feel "lucky" that you weren't one of the affected CTG employees that were escorted out the door on short notice. All I can say is if you can find something better in this economy, then take it and leave IBM since there are no strings attached to keep you there unless you just do it for the sheer entertainment. -Anonymous-

Comment 11/17/08: Anon in rtp, sorry to hear that - I got a 10% reduction last year in Canada - hoping to find another job before IBM dishes out another 10% pay cut ultimatum - contractor colleague of mine was let go last week - I have to do his work now - am now doing 4 times the workload as of 18 months ago. -DM-

Comment 11/17/08: CTG third paycut in 3 years and yet you continue to stay? As a retiree I could understand you hanging on for a pension maybe but what are you hoping to accomplish by staying?? Considering on top of paycuts the cost of living has been climbing so you are probably down to McDonalds wages why would anyone put up with IBM's S*** for declining wages? I am not trying to be negative or nasty but I would have to give serious thought to my situation. Even Bob Cratchet got a penny a year raise. Good Luck! -Exodus2007-

Comment 11/17/08: Steady State completely India and Argentina right now and expect them to advance plan in other areas - GS is about to go to 88% to India and China before JUNE of 09. More RA's coming Dec 1 - take any vacation before and Big Blue not planning on rehiring full timers even though some major contracts signed the past month - looking at NEW contractors only is what was heard in the halls, less rate. -UC'd-

Comment 11/17/08: IBM is closing libraries at these location: Essex Junction, Austin, Rochester, Poughkeepsie, and Tucson as of December 1, 2008. -very concerned-

Comment 11/16/08: i'm a contractor @ the rtp, nc site.. just got a call from my CTG manager saying IBM was cutting our pay %10 effective tomorrow monday 17th, 2008... Merry Christmas.. 3rd cut i've had in the last 3 years... -anonymous-

Comment 11/16/08: keeplibraries -- There is obviously a spectrum of value in the library, from zero to very valuable. If we suppose the value to be very high then it should be kept. OTOH if we suppose the value to be zero then it clearly should be dropped. Think back: IBM probably used to have a typewriter fabrication line somewhere. Should it have that now, when typewriters are no longer in the product line -- and when nobody would buy them even if they were? I think the library is like that: pretty much obsolete and therefore reasonable to drop. Now what about the librarians? Well, it would be *nice* if they could be kept on the payroll but still they need to produce something of value. Like the typewriter assembly line, probably the wrenches and screwdrivers were assigned somewhere else, and probably the building was repurposed as well; but inevitably some of the tooling was specific to typewriters and therefore could not be used. -Mule Skinner-

Comment 11/16/08: Mule Skinner: Reasonable change? It isn't a change for the better. How about the folks that maintain the library campus? They are probably on the 30-day march to unemployment now. -keeplibraries-

Comment 11/15/08: Sick ... I agree with you. When will people wake up. Every body thinks all is good, so long as it is not them. So, how many sap suckers read here and not join the union? I need you people to join up, so as a group we can have some power. -none-

Comment 11/15/08: I notice in the article from Rochester that campus libraries are being cut. Now that we get faster, fresher, more voluminous research on the net, this seems like a reasonable change. -Mule Skinner-

Comment 11/15/08: "IBM puts bottom line above their employees" Bravo for this opinion!. It is more than an opinion since it is absolutely true. -anonymous-

Comment 11/15/08: See job cuts at:

Comment 11/14/08: We Just need to STOP outsourcing of IBM Jobs to China, Brazil and India. IBM CEO's and Management does not take care, they just backstab us when we worked for them for 30 to 40 years and one fine day they throw us out. Alliance Team and to all others here Please fill up the form under this url explaining outsource and offshore problem hope Mr.Obama will do something to save our Jobs. PLEASE WE NEED TO STOP OUTSOURCING AND SAVE OUR JOBS and SAVE OUR FAMILY. -Anonymous-

Comment 11/14/08: Sun cutting 6000. This layoff thing is catching on...... -homerj-

Comment 11/14/08: More cuts in Rochester: -anaon

Comment 11/14/08: Don't look now, but someone should tell Georgia about Texas: -

Comment 11/14/08: I cannot believe it. All this time been a "good" IBM employee and to be treated this way..... -sick-

Comment 11/14/08: More on the RTP cuts: -RTP-

Comment 11/14/08: A reason to be interested in senior level or management layoffs is the possibility that they will bump out someone lower down in the hierarchy. -Old Crab-

Comment 11/13/08: I was one of the 100 contractors discarded at RTP in October. I know that everything I have to say has been said already, but I don't care. I was a contractor for 5 years, originally doing the job of a regular who was 'supervising' me. He had been a contractor at one point too, but that was back in the glorious fabled times when IBM actually converted contractors into regulars from time to time. I did a good job and was instrumental in making and/or saving several large deals for the company. The results of my work easily helped IBM get or keep several million dollars of business. Yet, when it was time for them to improve their stock report, I was spat out and left for dead. I remember a few years earlier when they had their 'preferred vendor' business, giving exclusive STG contracts to CTG. I've got nothing against CTG, but everyone knew at that time what they were really doing was getting rid of what little ability contractors had to shop around and get a better deal. I worked with regulars of similar experience who did similar or even less demanding jobs for double or even triple what I was making. I wasn't even the worst. I knew someone who had been a contractor for 10 years who was discarded at the same time that I was. I'm angry and I'm afraid. I watched jobs go overseas to Taiwan and other places - people asked to train their replacements, knowing that they were being replaced. I think this 'off-shoring' stuff is despicable. Most of all, I hate the euphemisms that IBM spokespeople use for all of this stuff. Resource reductions, rebalancing skills. It's an outrage, and it should be illegal. I think that US companies shouldn't be allow to move jobs out of the country - period. If they want to add new jobs in another country, fine, but they shouldn't be allowed to sell us out like this. These people don't deserve our loyalty. I hope IBM crashes and burns. They deserve it. -used_and_discarded-

Comment 11/13/08: Ok..My bad, mea culpa. I did re-read the article. The confusion is between the headline and the article itself. The headline reads: "IBM slashes 215 senior positions, including six VPs; 38 jobs cut in RTP"...
But the article says, "IBM is laying off a host of senior managers, including at least six vice presidents, in another round of 215 job cuts among its Systems and Technology Group. An IBM spokesperson confirmed 38 of the people affected are based in the Triangle."
The difference is obvious. The headline says "215 Senior positions" and the article says "a host of senior managers, including at least six vice presidents"
To me, the whole thing diverts attention to Senior Management/Executives job loss. I also read Alliance's quotes in the article. I realize that Alliance is NOT sticking up for ANY job cuts; but rather, outraged at their occurrence at all. Bravo Alliance. I'm a member. I get your point -newsflash-;
mea culpa et al. -Ubuntu2u2-

Comment 11/13/08: "IBM slashes 215 senior positions, including six VPs; 38 jobs cut in RTP" ....
Does anyone know the names of the execs that supposedly being let go? My bet is that if you check their names in the IBM directory in 30 days you will find that somehow they all have found jobs within the company.... I think this press release is all window dressing! -stillemployed-
Alliance reply: You are probably right. Executives protect their own. Isn't it time we protected our non-management co-workers?
We all know that most workers do not find new jobs. A union contract would fix that. No new hires until RA'd workers are brought back!

Comment 11/13/08: Very clever, -newsflash-...using Alliance's comment section title as your argument; since it doesn't specify what jobs are 'cut' and whom is part of the 'resource actions' and 'firings'.. What are you saying, "have some sympathy and some taste..." for the devil? Sorry. -Ubuntu2u2-

Comment 11/13/08: Ubuntu2u2...scroll to the very top of this page and read the first 3 lines reddish brown... -newsflash-

Comment 11/13/08: -newsflash- Pardon the interruption, but tell me why Alliance members should be concerned about IBM execs losing their jobs? Isn't this a comeuppance for their sorry treatment of US IBM employees and their families? This should have been done years ago. Frankly, I celebrate it, because I know that none of them will need to collect unemployment or dip into their 401k's to survive...
I say get rid of the majority of their "Senior" executives. Sorry, I've no sympathy for the wealthy at this point. My bad. -Ubuntu2u2-
Alliance reply: To clarify--we are concerned about non-executive jobs not executive jobs. You are right, we have no sympathy for the execs.

Comment 11/13/08: IBM slashes 215 senior positions, including six VPs; 38 jobs cut in RTP -newsflash-
Comment 11/13/08: -say it ain't so Joe!- Really? Is this true? Well they get 60 days to find another job where us serfs are only given 30.. Still not fair.
Comment 11/13/08: -Brandon123- guess again bub, was there and know what happened - was offshoring and those were the problems and that was the MAIN problem, the State of Texas was promised in SLA's that NONE would happen and that was their biggest complaint on steady state move. Happened in Global and know all of the problems there and had to even train my SA's and TL's who were switched over to Bangalore Resources after they were RA'd, how else do you explain the HUGE problem with a Indian based PM and team doing that screw up on the DA's file structure and having a completely screwed up Active Directory and botched backups/production runs as well.
Look for this to happen more as big blue goes more to this model and that we were hearing about constantly from uppers. Figured out why
the ST changes yet???? Here's a hint, few of them actually in Denver, Boulder or other locations-think time zone 11 hours ahead. Some SDMs getting word now and would not be surprised if overseas takes over customer facing accounts way before the original 2010 date, like maybe MARCH 2009!!!! Anyone else heard the same? -UC'd-

Comment 11/13/08: To: -another_IBM_serial#- , You guys just crack me up! Any word when this is coming? How many times have you guys asked this question? The answer is always the same. Without a UNION, it's coming. There is no doubt about that. Either help the cause, sit back and wait for it to happen, or get out before they throw you out. Those are your options. No more stupid questions please.

Comment 11/13/08: STG US Layoffs. "STG SG&R Resource Action (SGAR) Notifed 11/10/08 Last Day 12/10/08 Total = 215 40-49 yrs old = 32%
50+ yrs old = 55.4% Mostly in Sales, Marketing & other SG&A -anon-

Comment 11/13/08: -say it ain't so Joe!- Which divisions or sectors are the executives being packaged or pressured to transfer? What level/type and number of executives are being hit with packages or relocation options? -another_ibm_serial#-
Comment 11/12/08: Lots of executives are being given packages today. They have until January to leave IBM and some are being asked to go to Dubai or China to work. Some are being re-leveled back to the field in sales. -say it ain't so Joe!-
Comment 11/12/08: "-IBM_SUCKs- Comment 11/10/08: Looks like all TTPM PMs will be let go to be replaced by PMs in India working remote..why you ask? Because they are we hit the road." ... any word on when this might be coming? -another_IBM_serial#-
Comment 11/12/08: Responding to a message below -- I dont think that the Texas screw-up had much to do with off-shoring. Most govt contracts end up in trouble because the legacy transformation cost is way underestimated just to land the job. Poorly staffed engagements fail whether it is delivered
using local or offshore resources. On the topic of this forum -- I can confirm the story about job cuts in STG. The cuts seem to be more widespread including Band 9 & 10 senior employees. -Brandon123-

Comment 11/12/08: Adding to my 11/10 comment: The STG resource actions in the US seem to be outsourced to IBM-India. -STG-IBMer-
Comment 11/12/08: -curious-, The severence payment is a lump sum that cannot be deferred our spread out. The medical benefits are equivalent to current benefits and DO NOT include dental and vision. -25year ibm vet-
Comment 11/12/08: 25year ibm vet - What option do u have for the 2 weeks salary up to 26 weeks ...which means 13 paychecks (6.5 months worth) or 1 lump sum or is there any other option....also for the medical dental I assume u still pay the same rate as if u were an employee? -curious-
Comment 11/11/08: Many have not noticed but the predictions made about the offshoring and the consequences are going on in Texas right now show what future business with IBM will be like for IT direction. Texas recently suspended ALL PAYMENTS until security compliance is done including not sending security/HIPPA docs and data to India for Steady State! Additionally a Bangalore based PM was responsible for the fowl up of a huge DB that was for the state Attorney General office which compromised 100's of cases....get used to it....want to see where SAM thinks should go next - you better read this - really insightful...from US NEWS. -UC'd-

Comment 11/11/08: I was a manager for 15 years at IBM. When it came to layoffs, our VP’s motto was “better a 2 on the old plan than a 3 on the new plan”. Time after time, we would fire a 2 performing “old plan” person rather than a 3 performing “new plan” person doing the exact same job, to meet our layoff quota. Of course we would put them in some sort of job category that sounded different but was totally bogus, like the “new plan” person was a “customer consultant” and the “old plan” person was a “client consultant”, but we all knew they did the exact same job. All other managers I knew in all other IBM areas did the same thing. If someone subpoenaed the lay off records of all 2 or better performing employees, the IBM evidence of age discrimination and bias in firing “old plan” employees would be overwhelming. -Anonymous-
Comment 11/11/08: BTV is flying with rumors ... so much anxiety yet we know we must plug along. Many re-orgs and moving of people around ... in preparation of what? Time will tell .... -What Next?-
Comment 11/11/08: After reading a few entries in "immigration voice" I must say that I am impressed with their relative eloquence and lack of panic and backbiting. -Real American-
Comment 11/11/08: I was laid off yesterday. I work in the Systems&Technology Group-Industry Systems. Based in Atlanta. Based on conversations with numerous colleagues, I estimate that 100-200 STG employees are laid off, mostly in the US, mostly working on the STG "worldwide team." I have been offered separation and severance terms commonly extended to US employees: 30-days until official separation, 2 weeks salary for every year worked up to 26 weeks total, 12 months worth of medial and insurance coverage. I am 48 years old. -25-Year IBM Vet-
Comment 11/11/08: Seymor - I am suprised by your position on this. You believe Mark is a good man, obviously IBM thinks so as well. In this day and age of total disrespect for intellectual property, IBM in this situation appears to be putting a VERY high value on Mark. It is reported they even tried to offer him additional compensation to stay. If you believe he is an intelligent man then you must believe he totally
understood what he was signing, and the consequences.Others have signed this and waited out the year until they worked for a competitor, he apparently didn't think he needed to. On a message board where people are constantly criticizing IBM for not valuing there employees, could there be any better demonstration of valuing an employee than to fight to keep them from going elsewhere??? -Anonymous-

Alliance Reply: This discussion was moved to General Visitor Comments. This thread was steering off course from Job Cuts.
Comment 11/11/08: Well now, IBM makes +$9B in NET profits, and, of course, the next logical move to to GR as many positions as possible. Sounds about right - yes ? I've worked for this company for a while now and I'm sick of this crap. How about a "CHALLENGE" from some prissy PE? Let me translate : If you folks can work serious overtime, for no overtime pay, and meet some CRAZY date in a project plan, then our reward is that I (the stately PE) will get a HUGE bonus, and you miserable worker-bee types get to try and salvage your personnel relationships because you sacrificed EVERYTING (ie:kids' birthdays, vacations, scheduled vacations, etc...) so IBM can APPEAR to be able to deliver ANYTHING, no matter how nuts the dates and scope are! Oh, and at the end of the project, there is NO, and I mean NO, confirmation that you will still have a job. How's that sound?
There is always someone, somewhere in this great world, cheeper than you. And, IBM will give that person your job, to save a few "sheckles". It doesn't matter if they speak english well, or not...they are cheaper. Has anyone actually opened a trouble ticket with IBM internal support and gotten any sort of resonable response? A rhetorical question, I know; everyone knows that if you do not work at a location with an actual IBM hardware or software tech, or your brother, son, or neighbor is not a computer expert, then YOU ARE SCREWED!!!!!!!!!! Good luck getting anything other than "Good afternoon Mr Man, my name is Earl, from Mayanta, India, is your computer plugged in? Yes...then can I please close this ticket (so I can get credit for "resolving" more tickets than my worker-neighbor "James").
I'm not sure what the answer to this insanity is (see, I'm so messed up that my english diction is f%$ked-up also). Anyway, god bless the a-wholes at the exec level, making $$$$$, while us small workers pick up the crumbs, and HOPE our job will not be "GR'd" this year. No worries though, it will be GR'd next year so IBM can save .5% on some labor cost somewhere in some "cost-case". And in parting, all you SDM's and DPE types out there, remember that the email has been circulated to GR a large portion of the "Command and Control" positions. I think the official position must be to eliminate all of you pesky workers who have some notion of actually retiring from IBM with a livable savings. As Karl Marx was fond of saying "From each according to his abilities (the workers), to each according to his needs (IBM Mgmt and Exec)". Enjoy! -I-Used-2-Luv-IBM-Then-I-Woke-Up-

Comment 11/10/08: Looks like all TTPM PMs will be let go to be replaced by PMs in India working remote..why you ask? Because they are we hit the road. -IBM_SUCKs-
Comment 11/10/08: Significant but unknown number of job cuts in STG starting today I think, Nov 10. Not location-specific but all in the US. -STG-IBMer-
Comment 11/10/08: Just a suggestion, you might want to start lobbying at this site because the foreign workers already are.

"Obama wants to hear your idea. President elect Obama has just launched and here
They are inviting ideas for changes and one of the check box is "immigration". Guys, let them hear our voice?" -Barb-

Comment 11/09/08: Life after IBM. I left on my own after 29 years of service. I left for a job with just as much pressure. I am working just as hard as I did at IBM. I am enjoying myself more than ever because I feel I can make a difference. IBM is a good company. A lot of good companies out there. -Anonymous-
Comment 11/08/08: Just discovered yesterday that 2 colleagues in Montreal (Global Services Tech support) were given the can last week - no announcement from the manager or anything. It was only discovered/confirmed by some people over hearing 2nd Line Manager talking about them and further cuts in the coffee lounge. -DM-
Comment 11/08/08: Hey NOBAMA: And the Republicans haven't forgotten about the middle class? You betcha they have! It was under Republican "leadership" that offshoring and eliminating jobs has escalated; which of course this Big Blew embraced. -BUSHWACKED-
Comment 11/08/08: Virgil, aside from grammar problems, I think your site has some other issues: My pc slowed down to a crawl when I went there. -Snail-
Comment 11/07/08: Resource actions occurring in Software Group (Information Management). People I know affected are from Sales and Customer Support. Notifications happened this week. Don't know how many where affected. --
Comment 11/07/08: About another furlough in BTV ... it's Fishkill's turn. Period. We "took one for the team" last time, now let them take one. -BTV'er-
Comment 11/07/08: I would like to invite all of you to look at the "Wall of Shame" at
Thanks, Virgil
-Virgil Bierschwale-

Comment 11/07/08: Engineer in Fishkill NY overhear one h1b visa 'manager'/overlord talking to h1b worker saying... 'After the resource action we can bring in a few more people' (meaning h1b's). It is quite clear that ibm intends to replace as many workers with as many h1b's and L-2 (or what evers) as they can possibly find. I hope ibm'ers are calling their local reps and letting them know about what is going on! ibm gets millions in tax breaks for 'job's which it then gives to foreign workers both in the US and offshore! sam palmaselloff has hired more communist slaves and indentured servants than any slave owner that ever lived! It's time to start calling the ins, fbi, and any other agency and government rep you can think of while there are still a few Americans left working in the US. -sam-is-a-commie-slave-lover-
Comment 11/07/08: Layoffs on Election day are only the start under Obama. When Obama raises taxes on corporations, IBM will be the first to send jobs over seas and close plants that are under utilized like Burlington. Good bye jobs. On Another note... I also heard that Burlington's NON-AWS employees are going to be told they need to take a 2 week unpaid leave. The last time this happened in Burlington, the state paid those employees
unemployment wages.
Alliance Reply: This will happen regardless of who is President. IBM has been planning this for some time. Take a look at many of our past posts in our archives sections and other comments sections; such as General Visitor Comments. You'll find that many IBMer's that have posted here, believe offshoring of the USA's IBM employees is, and has been an IBM Executive Management goal since year 2000 or possibly before. Tens of thousands have already been offshored since Bush was elected in 2000. Didn't Bush cut corporate taxes, during his two terms?

Comment 11/06/08: IHateWorkingHereToo - Are you in Test or Systems Engineering within SEA&T? Do you know how many people got impacted by the Resource Action? Of course, getting any information from management is about as clear as mud. -IHateWorkingHere-
Comment 11/05/08: I have heard rumors of a possible furlough for BTV/STG employees from several people within my organization. Has anyone else heard when this will happen and will IBM give us a notice for a 2 wee furlough within a timeframe or do they furlough you without pay with no notice and you find out the next day you are on furlough? Any info would be appreciated, thanks. -Anonymous-
Comment 11/05/08: The SEA&T GBS resource action is not just for those on the bench. It is also for those with a current assignment scheduled to end in the first part of 2009. My assignment is scheduled until Jan 31 with a probable extension well in to the second quarter. Did not last day is Dec 1. -IHateWorkingHereToo-
Comment 11/04/08: While WCAX was talking about the 100-150 laid off today, they commented that more were coming. Our governor was standing there but did not comment. What else do we know about this? What is the deal with IBM doing this on election day?!!! -Anonymous-
Comment 11/04/08: STG managers with open hiring headcount supposedly can't make offers to US employees, the only possible headcount increases allowable are offshore (aka India, Brazil, or similar). Expertise is not a factor, "saving money" is all that matters. No longer needs to be "first time correct". -BTV Employee-
Comment 11/04/08: Confirmation about Resource Action in SEA&T Group in GBS (Application Services). Anyone on the bench will be let go (even though they are spinning as skills needed for current environment - total BS). -IHateWorkingHere-
Comment 11/04/08: "100 long term supplementals let go in BTV today."
The house of cards is falling in Vermont. Sad that these people were let go on Election Day. Folks, it is time to stand up and fight back against these greedy bastards like Sam Palmisano. Why does it not surprise me that Sam was elected to the board of Exxon? He has been raping the IBM corporation and now will help the executives of Exxon rape that company. It is time to stand up to these greedy self serving bastards like Sam Palmisano. -Joe the Worker-

Comment 11/04/08: 100 long term supplementals let go in BTV today. -BTV'er-
Comment 11/04/08: UPDATE 1-Exxon names IBM's Palmisano as presiding director......good choice there Exxon, since he is so good at running things aground -Gone-n-forgotten-
Comment 11/04/08: I have worked over the last 22 years at several Fortune 500 Companies. And IBM cares less about its people.... Well we are slaves. The job market sucks and I am just waiting to get my pink slip..... Good luck to all -sick of IBM-
Comment 11/02/08: -ADrone- I'm in the SEA&T Organization but currently on a billable contract. Are the only the individuals on the bench impacted right now? The business people in this group are the worse at selling the services. -SEA&T Member-
Comment 11/02/08: "I find it interesting that every time someone suggests we need to organize a union, you tell us that it is all up to us. If that's really the case, then why do we even need the Alliance? -Joe Blue-"
To -Joe Blue-
A union cannot pick a company and say this company is now a union company. The workers in the company must organize themselves enough for over half of them to say they want a union vote and that they would vote yes. It is therefore up to us to organize to that point. We would then vote yes. Become a union shop and then Viable unions would ask us to let them represent us. CWA being one of the Candidates more likely to and the Alliance being a group of organizers working with the CWA to help us organize. It is like political organizers trying to not only get out the vote but to also get you to vote for their candidate. Unlike them though we do not have a scheduled election day until we organize to the point that WE schedule it. IBM will not schedule an election for us and neither can the union so yes it is up to us. Do we have to have the Alliance. No. Is it nice to have friends in low places just like we are. You bet it is. Hope this clears up some of the misconceptions you have about organizing. Now there is a law I would like to see. A yearly national election of unions. Every year there is an automatic vote for or against a union for every company doing business in America. Bet companies would treat us very well to keep us from voting yes. I would vote yes just to spite the Bastards anyway
. -Exodus2007-
Comment 11/02/08: To -another_exibmr- Sorry to hear about that. I hope you found work at a better place than IBM. The problem here is that nobody stands up to the greed and inhumanity of these corporations. We are basically like slave labor here at IBM. They know that the economy is in the gutter so they dont have to give us raises or reasonable workloads. The same with the oil companies. They have been charging us through the nose for gas and recording astronimical earnings. But in the end, we are to blame. We allow these things to happen by not coming together and unionizing. -patriot-
Comment 11/02/08: To -patriot-; My manager told my group after a cut of contractors over a year ago that we were now safe for a while. I got it a week later. The only way to stop that madness is to Unionize and protect ourselves. As long as you are an "at will" employee, they can do whatever they want. -another_exibmr-
Comment 11/01/08: I find it interesting that every time someone suggests we need to organize a union, you tell us that it is all up to us. If that's really the case, then why do we even need the Alliance? -Joe Blue-
Comment 11/01/08: I hear through the grapevine that Infoprint Solutions, The company the printer folks got shoved into has just announced an across the board Voluntary transition option to all Service folks and Service managers. Agree to leave by Dec31 and get up to 6 months pay. This could be a new record. They just joined the new company June 1st and are already being shown the exit. I think the Qualexserv people lasted longer then this. -Exodus2007-
Comment 11/01/08: Regarding the rumored 90% cuts in ITD staff on the IBM Global Account, by year-end 2009, when is Collins-Smee planning to offshore the hardware and infrastructure? -Clarify the rumors-
Comment 11/01/08: Folks, we have a crisis in America today. 30 years ago the pay differential in corporate America from the guy at the bottom to the guy at the top was 20X. Now it is 2000X!!! Greedy CEO's like Sammy Palmidildo need to be brought into line. A Union will do just that. Please, support the Alliance and let's form a Union a get some control back to the employees of the IBM corporation. Why give control to one greedy bastard like Sammy? It just doesn't make any sense.You are all Joe the Plummer trying to keep you job and make ends meet just like me. -Joe the Plummer-
Comment 11/01/08: 2010 folks. Do you hear me? 2010 is coming fast. Every IBM quarterly report mentions it. The non-BRIC countries in IBM
need to do something to try to survive past 2009.
Alliance Reply: Organizing and joining together would be the best strategy. Alliance@IBM continues to believe that IBM will stop at nothing (in their control) to acheive total abandonment of the USA workers. The one thing they can't control is a union of employees that stand together, organize , and force IBM to the bargaining table. It is a very doable strategy. It's up to you. All of you.
Comment 11/01/08: If 20% of HQ is getting the ax in November thenat least 1 out of every 5 IBM upper management and executives (like the Sr. VP's) should be canned as well. No golden parachutes, no fanfare, just the sound of an IBM Armonk door slamming shut behind them. It's about time they need to feel the pain as well. -Anonymous-
Comment 11/01/08: For those asking about the severance -- I was one affected by the 10/1 announcement of layoffs within ITD. I'm told that I'll be getting 2 weeks pay for every year worked with the company. 6 months pay max. They're also letting me keep my benefits for 6 months,
regardless of how many years I have. Good luck to all of you. -Rage Against The Machine-

Comment 11/01/08: Heard that a few regulars were given 30 day notices last week here at RTP. Its weird, because we were told by management that there was no plan to let regulars go when the contractors got cut. So much for being truthful. -patriot-
Comment 10/31/08: Comment 10/25/08: "Can we stop using the term "laid off" when we talk about IBM terminating the contract it has with another company? I don't know why this is even looked at as a bad thing, having a flexible workforce protects real employee jobs. -Anonymous- "

I have been a contractor for IBM for 5 years, so I am not a "real" employee? The only difference between you and me is that you get the IBM perks and I I get the IBM Shaft because IBM will not convert contractors to regs.
-contractor AKA not a real employee-

Alliance Reply: This is another example of why a union contract would eliminate this kind of discrimination. Contractors have the right to form unions, too. If IBM was unionized, you would have a much better opportunity to become a regular; depending on the specifics of the contract. Contractors have been abused and mistreated by IBM for years; and "anonymous" 's comment bears out the phony employee protection speech that IBM has been giving for years.

Comment 10/31/08: I am curently in the IBM Americas Techline organization. I was just informed yesterday that my job is being eliminated and I'll be out as of Dec 1. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/31/08: My Thoughts - Working for a technology company, did you ever consider that maybe your comment wasn't received for some technical reason?Maybe a network hiccup, dropped packets, whatever? Why didn't you just try to resend your post instead of assuming alliance got it and chose not to post it? This is a perfect example of how many IBMers mostly management on up, have no clue about the technology the company delivers or how to logically think through a technical problem before making assumptions and accusations. -anon-
Comment 10/31/08: I am a recent victim of a resource action that occurred in the GTS BCRS organization. There were a total of 3 at Sterling Forest, 1 in Gaithersburg, and 2 in Boulder from the BCRS team. I was cut just shy of my 25th service anniversary. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/30/08: Do not answer calls from your managers tomorrow. 10% of all Americas will be laid off. They have thirty days and after tomorrow, the clock starts ticking. -waiting-
Comment 10/30/08: Oh, too bad all the project managers and moron CHQ management chain who do no real work are getting canned, who gives a damn. Try getting a real job where you actually make a difference and aren't taking a leave of absence. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/30/08: I heard STG is being rebuilt from the ground up and layoffs are coming. Yes it makes since that the contractors go first. Kind of messed up. As a contractor I do twice the job many IBMers do for 20k less than what I made at IBM 5 years ago. I am delusional that I can possible run the company someday. LOL So much for having an MBA and all these worthless certifications. -Tool-
Comment 10/30/08: I am curious. As a frequent reader and an occasional poster to this and other comments sections, for future reference about what is allowed and not allowed in posts, I wonder why my comment submitted 10/29/08 to the “Job Cuts” section was not posted. The post was very positive to unionization and strongly recommended all active employees join the union for several listed reasons. The post also explained accurately and factually the status of contractors at IBM in the United States to help clear up some misunderstandings and misinformation contained in other posts. Also, the post was not from a member of IBM management. I recognize and acknowledge it is solely your decision on which comments to post, which is why I am asking the question. I look forward to your response. Thank you. -MyThoughts-
Alliance reply: Our policy is to keep every comment we receive, in a folder, for future reference; regardless of whether we actually post the comment or not. I have searched our records and cannot find the comment you refer to for that date, 10/29/08. Are you sure you posted it through this comment section or General Comments, Raise & Salary, PBC, or Pension?
Was your signature "MyThoughts"?
Please resend it to us and we will post it. You are correct about some comments not getting posted here for specific reasons; but I sincerely don't believe that we received yours. Otherwise we would have posted it.
Send it again.
Comment 10/30/08: Today there was a small lay off in AIS. Rumor I've heard: 20% of HQ will be given the axe in November. (good post Joe Punchclock) -Joe.the.Plummer-
Comment 10/30/08: My manager notified my today that I have 30 days to find a new position at IBM. I have 10 years of experience as a project manager currently in the ITD group. I had just returned from family leave of absence just two months ago. No prospects in site. -Future ex-IBM'er-
Comment 10/30/08: Joe Punchclock: Line management up to the VP level are fundamentally good and should be respected. We just need to let them know how we would like to be treated, and they will do their best.
Ha ha ha! Good one! I see mostly toadies and nasty people in positions of management, all up & down the line. The only ones here that appear to be decent humans are either in positions of no power, or are being booted out, or walk in fear of it. The rest manage by fear and intimidation. -"irRational-
Comment 10/30/08: huge cuts in ISC today... Rochester,MN , Not sure what other sites. First glance at package handed out , appears to be 100's + -homerJ-
Comment 10/30/08: I know of two Project Managers on the Phoenix, AZ American Express account who are being released and replaced by personnel in Brazil. Their last day is tomorrow. (Charles Colodner & Clark Shindel). They are contractors though, not IBM employees. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/30/08: I was just informed by my manager of a "resource action" today which will effect the SEA&T organization, as well as all of IBM. They have been calling people all day to let them know that they are not effected. I'm one of those, but I fear for friends that have been on the bench. You have been alerted! -ADrone-
Comment 10/30/08: Significant action affection Sales and Distribution above-region teams for SWG sales. 20-40% on some teams... -PassedOver-
Comment 10/30/08: 2nd round of layoffs here, I just got the word yesterday. Band 8,Software Group. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/30/08: My friend left for India on an 18mo relocation He let me know IBM is excellerating their goal for 2009 from 3000 to 7000 jobs going to India. Well done Sal and great support for America, when do you move to Bangalor? -Ex-IBMer-
Comment 10/29/08: Line management up to the VP level are fundamentally good and should be respected. We just need to let them know how we would like to be treated, and they will do their best. If 2 weeks notice is good for employees to give, then IBM should give 2 weeks notice back. Long-term and Short-term Supplementals, Contractors, Child Labor and Slaves are all just co-employment methods to skin-flint labor "resources" out of being treated as human beings. SVP to CEO level there is currently rampant greed at any cost to you or your country. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. To paraphrase Bob Dylan, as we talk to Sam about stealing our pensions to line and feather his nest... "Well let me ask you one question... is your money that good? Will it buy you forgiveness? Do you think that it could? I think you will find... as your DEATH takes its toll... all the money you TAKE will NEVER buy back your SOUL". From silver spoon to golden parachute, you never stand a chance unless you learn to stand together and fight. -Joe Punchclock-
Comment 10/29/08: Something to think about: As an employee of Global Services I am also under the "Supply Chain" organization. Somewhere in time the "human" element has been removed from the service I provide. The next transition from BRIC will be CYBORG! Have a nice day. -Welcome to Skynet-
Comment 10/29/08: IGS GA (Global Account) is thousands of people, and there is an aggressive push by the CIO office to move jobs from the USA to the GDC (Global Deployment Competency) centers in India, Mexico, Brazil, and China. Bottom line....MANY people will be looking for jobs in 2009. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/28/08: "All of the IT jobs in our entire organization (in the IBM Global Account of IGS) are being sent overseas. Word is that 90% of all of the IBM Global Account will be overseas by EOY 2009. This includes Business Area Managers, Project Managers, IT Specialists, and IT Architects. Where are the jobs to absorb this huge loss, as US unemployment soars? There will be no stopping this without government intervention."
One word for this my friend. GREED. Greedy CEO's like Sammy Palmadildo are sticking us in the rear and taking away our jobs in America. Let's hope the next president does something about it. Yes, we do need government intervention to control these GREEDY CEO's like Sammy. We need government to take the plunger to free up all the mess Sammy has made. Sammy is running the IBM company down the toilet. -Joe the Plumber-

Comment 10/28/08: To -anonymous - To put in perspective your comment regarding, "Word is that 90% of all of the IBM Global Account will be overseas by EOY 2009". Can you tell us just how big IBM Global Account is? 10 people? 20 people? 100 people? It's interesting ,but I work in IGS and I haven't heard any rumors of layoffs and I don't know anyone personally who is on the bench, but I have heard (hearsay) from others who told me they know people on the bench for months and have not been laid off. -I don't hear the rumors-
Comment 10/28/08: Pay close attention, traditionally contractors are removed from the business just before employees are told they have 30 days. And regarding that 30 days, it takes a very high level of approval to allow an RA'd employee to transfer. Approvals are NOT likely as the key is to cut expenses and employees = expenses. -Smiley-
Comment 10/28/08: Contractors are the first ones to be let go. I agree they are there in as-needed basis, but at least they should give them advance notice to find another job. If you read the article the will also layoff LTS (long term supplementals). These people are IBM employees but they have until friday to find a new gig. The people that end up staying will be overloaded with work and in many cases have no clue what the contractors under them were doing, because all the IBMers did was "design" test plans. I used to work in that craphole but I've been gone for a year. Good luck to all! -Maximus-
Comment 10/28/08: I was told today that the goal is to have 60% of ITD be global resourced leaving 40% from the US by end of year 2009. Manager confirmed this and to actively start looking now. -where has our country gone-
Comment 10/28/08: Remember when I mentioned some items earlier on contracts - take a look and I did mention that this was happening.... -IBM UC'd-

Comment 10/28/08: All of the IT jobs in our entire organization (in the IBM Global Account of IGS) are being sent overseas. Word is that 90% of all of
the IBM Global Account will be overseas by EOY 2009. This includes Business Area Managers, Project Managers, IT Specialists, and IT Architects. Where are the jobs to absorb this huge loss, as US unemployment soars? There will be no stopping this without government intervention. -Anonymous-

Comment 10/28/08: How can contractors avoid knowing that their employment is less secure than that of regulars? It should be obvious that the reason for such an arrangement is to allow IBM less obligation. The problem appears when the contractor has been there for several years and is fully integrated into work operations. In my experience there was hardly any distinction in work assignments and responsibilities. Indeed, my manager would attempt to hire those who showed superior performance over time. At layoff time, however, the difference in status does appear. After all, it is the company that pays you who has to utter the words "you're fired" and manage you out the door. Perhaps in the contract IBM could stipulate how this should be done, but what contract-employee-applicant is in a position to negotiate such a thing? Unless *they* have a union . . . -Butter Duck-
Comment 10/28/08: I have a heart. I'm sorry for these folks and even helped some of them look for new jobs. It's just that I don't understand why people don't get it. These folks did not work for IBM. They were not laid off, IBM terminated the contract with their employer. I have no idea then what their employer did as far as pay, severance etc., but IBM has every right to say please don't show up for work today. The
contractor route is a different risk/reward path, these are the unfortunate consequences. -Anonymous-

Comment 10/27/08: I was one of the 100+ contractors that was terminated from an IBM contract with CTG. This "termination" was botched. Stripped the contractor of any self dignity "on stage" and thrown out the door in less than sixty minutes. The worse part of this one was that no time was alloted for work transfer to the IBMr's who will have to put in OT just to figure out which end is up. Also, it demonstrated the lack of professionalism and humanity to IBM's current employees. I seen three contractor layoffs and there IBM employee layoffs and this one was one of the worst. Many times, contractors were terminated on Wednesday and allowed stayed to Friday. I guess the rope gets shorter companies mature. -anon@RTP-
Comment 10/27/08: To Joe Punchclock As ugly as it is, I don't think IBM is under any obligation to provide notice to contractors. The managers I have had in the past have always said the nice thing about having contractors is they can get let go at any time, for no reason at all. It's been obvious in the past that they take full advantage of this. -nobody_at_blue-
Comment 10/27/08: To are right that dismissing Contractors is not technically a layoff. But is a dismissal of PEOPLE on no notice and in some cases critical members of teams. It impacts those who no longer draw the check and their families, and also impacts those left behind who must pick up the pieces. Mgt may consider the workforce flexible, but the work itself is usually NOT flexible. I do
appreciate hearing about any changes in workforce whether fulltime employees or contractors. -Have a heart-

Comment 10/27/08: Here's the story about the cuts at RTP. The last paragraphs are sad... -Maximus-
Comment 10/26/08: I asked one of the affected 100 CTG contractors some questions about his layoff here in RTP. There was absolutely no notice, no warning. He was working at his ThinkPad on Friday afternoon at the office, when a CTG rep he had never seen before came and told him he was affected by the layoff, and to packup his things. He didn't even get a chance to say goodbye. He was then escourted out of the building as if a common criminal. Pack-up, and get-out. In the blink of an eye, another job lost, and a life put in turmoil. Who knows when the reaper will come for you... but he is coming if you work in the USA. Be ready. -Joe Punchclock-
Comment 10/26/08: To won't lift a finger: My manager would not even reply to my emails for the 30 days I had left until I got the boot. When your manager is told they have to get rid of a certain amount of people, it does not benefit them to help you find another position. I had other positions I applied for and those managers were looking for a reference. I was not able to get him to respond at all. It is completely their choice who they choose and that choice is always made depending on who they like the most. In your case this person likes to be around the women. -wont_lift_a_finger-
Comment 10/25/08: Can we stop using the term "laid off" when we talk about IBM terminating the contract it has with another company? I don't know why this is even looked at as a bad thing, having a flexible workforce protects real employee jobs. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/23/08: IBM Rochester laid off 35 CTG contracters as well the other day when they laid off the 100 from RTP. Surprised no one had mentioned that yet -anon-
Comment 10/23/08: In Canada, in some areas, there's a very male dominated ex-pat culture = old boys' club. The area I was in, they laid off all the females. We'd have a meeting, come to an agreement, then in the men's washroom, they'd make new decisions together! -Anonymous-
Comment 10/23/08: "Has anyone else experienced being laid off while your manager, not willing to lift a finger to help you out, went out of his way to hook up his female employees that he is, how shall we say this, "very close" to? -LaidOff-"
Laid-Off: I knew of one male manager who laid off all of his male employees. He was left will all female employees and they were all
very attractive to boot. IBM managers really need to go to some diversity training. A male manager can't have all attractive female employees. -Anonymous-

Comment 10/23/08: Has anyone else experienced being laid off while your manager, not willing to lift a finger to help you out, went out of his way to hook up his female employees that he is, how shall we say this, "very close" to? -LaidOff-
Comment 10/22/08: IBM is transitioning the work of about 50-100 people in the security compliance area (SARM - Security Asset and Risk Management) from the US to Hungary. These workers' jobs will be eliminated and they will have to find new jobs inside or outside IBM. This is affecting employees under the management chain of "Carol Rosenberg/Sterling Forest/IBM@IBMUS". -ab101-
Comment 10/21/08: bekkoame: Quite linguistically challenging. -Japanese Illiterate-
Comment 10/19/08: "Bend over Japan. It's your turn."... One move will be to end a Japanese retirement program and do "work force actions," or job eliminations, "designed to improve Japan's structural competitiveness." ... " Interesting that Japan is experiencing the same problems we have. They copy everything we make just like China. Too bad we can't clone Palmisano and put him in places like China to speed up downfall the process. LOL Palmisano is a total jerk. I'd love to see a program on TV regarding his greed and arrogance. CEO's like Palmisano are what is wrong with America today. Yes, bend over Japan and hopfully bend over China in the near future. -I.C.Butts-
Alliance Reply: Although you may be right about China; your characterization of Japan is a bit dated. The Japanese have been innovators since the 1980's, in all kinds of technology. Also, some workers in IBM Japan are unionized. Their union representatives came to the Alliance@IBM offices in November of 2004. It was a very productive meeting. It is ironic that during the 1980's , IBM USA tried to get USA workers to emulate the IBM Japan workers...IBM didn't tell us that the Japanese were unionizing.....small wonder.
Here's a link to their site: and to the IBM Workers International Solidarity
Comment 10/17/08: Bend over Japan. It's your turn. "... One move will be to end a Japanese retirement program and do "work force actions," or job eliminations, "designed to improve Japan's structural competitiveness." ...

Comment 10/17/08: IBM claims they have a test program place to replace front software agents at the Atlanta call center. India started taking calls the week of 10/1/08, official start 10/13/08, Affecting 23 contractors. Normal actions clear out the contractors, then the IBM'ers on the back end are next. Right now the IBM'ers are fixing/recording process problems for India. Once the process is smooth, bye bye -Anonymous-
Comment 10/16/08: Alliance Reply - Most of the ups employees that are union are either drivers, mechanics, or preloaders. I work in management and am not union. However, for the most part ups promotes from within, so ALMOST everyone that is in management began work on the preload loading package cars at some point in their career. It does not happen often (i was an exception) but usually ups does not hire managment off the street. However if you can demonstrate your skills and the value add you would bring to the company you should get consideration for the job.... -a year later-
Comment 10/16/08: to retire you need 30 years OR 15 years + 55 yrs or older. You can bridge ONE YEAR to retirement in your 29th year. Check with you HR contact or call the ESC . Most management is clueless about retirement/benefits, etc. -anon-
Comment 10/16/08: Scary stuff. It has always been impossible, of course, to guess the market 100% of the time. If, however, companies are intentionally deceiving stockholders/potential stockholders, what hope do we have of guessing right at all? Without honesty we have nothing. -Egads-
Comment 10/16/08: I have selected to be let go at end of October 2008; however, I am less than 3 months away from age 54 in which case I can get 1 year to retirement. I will lose out on retirement insurance benefits. What recourse actions do I have? How can I complain to my HR person? There were over 200 GTS people affected. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/16/08: Folks it has been a little over a yr now since i received my call from the spineless first line mgr advising me I had lost my job. It was rough at first, i went through a lot of interviews and heard the usual, over qualified or they couldn't come close to paying what I was making at ibm. I did eventually find a job and a good one at that. I now work for UPS @ a distribution center. I still sit behind a computer (dont touch a box) for 5 1/2 hrs a day. The pay is about half of what I was making at ibm BUT I only work 5 1/2 hrs a day. The insurance is great, $33/month for medical and dental for the entire family, medical alone at ibm was $240/month. After working there 6 months I received a 4% raise. I have already been told by my mgr when I want to go full time to let him know and they will start me @ $60K per yr. Right now I am kind of enjoying this 25.5 hr work week and will prob go full time at some point. The meaning of this post is for folks who are looking for a job to check out UPS, the insurance is great and unlike ibm they will PAY if you are a top performer. They are a stable company and appreciate someone who can function without having someone stand over them and direct their every move... ....good luck to all -A year later-
Alliance Reply: UPS is also unionized in some job classifications; is this true for your job?

Comment 10/15/08: Trust in every relationship. When jobs are moved to India and other countries and people are put on a resource firing list that person is given 30 days to find a new job. What they don’t tell you is your manager needs you to exit IBM to count you in their exit numbers for their PBC. If you find a new job then your manager needs to fire someone else to make their target. This is why people can’t find jobs in those 30 days! -Anonymous-
Comment 10/15/08: At the end of October IBM is shipping 24 staff members and their families to Bangalore, India for 18 months, their job prepare staff over there for the 3000 jobs IBM will ship over in 2009. More Americans out of work so we can help the Indian economy out. IBM the grand old US company do it's best to drive America into a depression -Ex-IBMer-
Comment 10/14/08: The 700,000 engineer number (and 350,000 for India, and numerous other numbers) have been tossed around for a while. What I've read is that the 700,000 number includes everyone who graduates in any technical field, such as technicians and vocational college graduates (and certainly more than just EEs). The quality of those graduates is quite uneven. One study concluded that about 10% of the Chinese graduates were qualified to work for a multi-national corporation (not that 100% of the US graduates would be similarly qualified). A Duke University study concluded that the US graduated more engineers per capita than India or China, with 137,000 in the US, 112,000 in India, and 351,000 in China. All I can say (not being an expert) is that you need to look carefully at the numbers and their sources.
As an EE, I'm finding myself less worried about India and China these days. You can't draw broad conclusions without stereotyping, but from
what I've read, heard, and seen, there are project management and turnover issues with projects run in India, and the Chinese engineers
have much more language issues - plus they can't work on ITAR projects. -'nother EE-

Comment 10/14/08: I'm a new programmer in IGS. From what I've read here, it sounds like IBM was a much better company to work for in the past. But from what I've seen, this company isn't any better or worse than other companies that I have friends at. So why do we need a union for programmers? I don't plan to make IBM my career company. I'm just here for some experience and then I'm leaving. -question-
Alliance Reply: We're not advocating a union "just for progammers"; We're advocating a union for ALL non-management IBM US employees. There are already unionized IBMers in Japan, Germany, France, Italy, etc. There is union of IBMers in Australia as well.
The European and Japan IBM unions have progammers as members; along with other job types. They also have collectively baragained contracts and agreements. Our mssion here in the US, is to bring IBM employees
to the bargaining table for a collectively bargained contract. Whether you stay or go, you don't have a voice or a representative to speak for you when IBM decides to make decisions about your pay, benefits, and whether you lose your job.
Comment 10/14/08: IBM Expands Research Efforts in China

China graduates 700,000 electrical engineers each year - wow -commodity engineers-

Comment 10/13/08: Sam Palmisano's strategy is to keep cutting the older American employees until they are all gone. Think about it. Sam saves on retirement benefits. Sam is a greedy A$$hole. He has his multimillion dollar retirement and could care less about yours. We had plenty of warning to ban together and form a Union. Most of the people that read this board think a job cut will never happen to them. Think again. Sam will toss you out on your butt in an instant and think nothing of it. Sam wants cheap labor overseas. That is all that matters to him. It is as simple as that. Join the Alliance and lets try to save what little we have left of the old IBM that cares about American employees. -RedWhiteandBlue-
Comment 10/13/08: To workingforblueagain- : You want job cut status? As long as there is no union, job cut status is to continue layoffs until all the jobs are overseas. It's as simple as that. If you are lurking here from time to time just to see if your department is getting hit this month, or if you are safe for a little while so you can sleep tonight, unionize and you'll sleep a lot better. -anonymous-
Comment 10/12/08: To -Paulie (RA'D 6/07)- Oh, yeah, they are hurtin' now. Sure, it's all relative.But they still call all the shots at the table. They are still mega millionaires and maybe Sam close to a billionaire now. And if we don't UNIONIZE who will pay for the IBM EXECUTIVES losses? I will. YOU WILL! I don't give a crap about Sam. He's pond scum at best. I just care about protecting my fellow IBMers and myself. I can do that with a union contract!!! If you don't join then go with Sam. I'm sure he'll be loyal to you and lavish stock options on you. -anonymous-
Comment 10/11/08: Many are using this link to vent their frustrations with IBM and it's executives. There is a general comments area of this forum for that. I am interested in job cut status when I visit here. Stay on topic please...used the other topic for general comments. Thanks -workingforblueagain-

Comment 10/10/08: TO>>>-nobody_at_blue- >>>> Remember that most of the EXECs don't get standard stock options, as the price is controlled for options. Most are now getting RESTRICTED STOCK allocations, for which they pay nothing up to $36. Another EXEC way to bypass the new rules on options. -no_ky-

Comment 10/10/08: To: Paulie (RA'D 6/07) They aren't hurting as much as you think. Check out what kind of stock $$ the big wigs cashed in over the past months: Before the rumors fly, just remember that CEO or not, financial logic says to not keep that much money tied up in a single stock, so it's really not a surprise they cashed in those stocks and options. If you're hateful, just assume they sunk it into some other stock that took a major hit. But I can't seem them hurting all looking at some of those figures. -nobody_at_blue-

Comment 10/10/08: I am sure there are many of us who would like to punch Sam. Let me word that differently. Many of us would like to beat the crap out of Sam. The best way to get back at companies like big blow, is to unionize, so they can't treat us like scum. That would give execs a kick in the Ass. -Punching_Sam-

Comment 10/10/08: Anonymous brings up an excellent point. IBM (especially under Gerstner) reported 'Vapor Profits' in order to manipulate earnings (and bonuses). Now that the market has tanked, would they not legitmately have to report the losses too ? I think everyone should query the Congressmen and apply as much heat as possible. -John-

Comment 10/09/08: Say what you will about the stock, the EXECS HAVE TO BE HURTING. No way, does the stock drop below 90 without it Hurting the BIG BOYS! GOOD!!, Dam Fine! Chickens are coming home to ROOST. Randy, Sam and the entire gang of THIEVES are Watching part of their FORTUNES DISSAPEAR., and I could not be HAPPIER FOR THEM!!!!!!!!! How does it feel boys, to have your future\wealth go up in SMOKE.. I am GLOATING!! -Paulie (RA'D 6/07)-

Comment 10/09/08: Hmmm .... and what does this mean? See the article below; I think it's part of the steps they will take to shed MD: Ultratech Inc., a supplier of lithography and laser-processing systems used to manufacture semiconductor devices, said Thursday it acquired the rights to a collection of patents from International Business Machines Corp. San Jose-based Ultratech (NASDAQ:UTEK) said the portfolio represents both U.S. and foreign patents and includes hardware for thermal processing of semiconductor wafers, as well as patents for temperature control and metrology. "This acquisition strengthens and broadens Ultratech's annealing technology capability for ultra-shallow junction formation -- a critical step in semiconductor manufacturing," the company said. -Selling the Farm-

Comment 10/09/08: IBM will continue to make their numbers because of the huge stock buy-backs, acquisitions, and favorable currency exchange rates converting back to dollars. The stock buy-backs artificially bring up Earnings per Share and the Acquisitions artificially bring up revenues. Remember recently IBM earmarked 15 billion dollars twice in a 10 month period to allow a total of 30 billion in stock buy backs. Unfortunately there is not a measurement such as Same Store Sales as in retail to see what IBM's real year to year performance is without the spin. In the past IBM showed gains from funds held within employee retirement programs as part of their operating profit. Will they be showing the losses if these holdings lost money? Finally the currency exchange is not as favorable as it was. It was recently 1.60 Euros to a dollar. Now it is about 1.36 Euros to the dollar. IBM executives know they did not really make their objectives despite the spin provided to the public so they will cut costs through layoffs. The problem with massive layoffs to meet the next quarter earning objectives is the jobs do not go away, just the experienced IBM employees. These talented IBM employees that are let go do not come back. There experience and skills leave with them. New hires take many months to get up to speed and when they do, there are more layoffs and the cycle starts again. This lowers IBM employee moral and real productivity with a significant portion of new hires going through massive learning curves. IBM customers do not want to pay high rates to provide IBM employees on-the-job training. -Anonymous-

Comment 10/08/08: EOD Wednesday, 10/08/08: IBM affirms outlook, shares rise in late trading:

By John Letzing, MarketWatch
Last update: 6:49 p.m. EDT Oct. 8, 2008Comments: 10SAN FRANCISCO
(MarketWatch) -- IBM Corp., bucking the global panic that has gripped markets and technology shares, surprised Wall Street Wednesday evening by releasing its earnings early, reporting a 20% gain in net income, and reaffirming its forecast for the year. IBM (IBM:International Business Machines News, chart, profile, more (Last: 90.55-5.10-5.33% 4:00pm 10/08/2008
Delayed quote dataAdd to portfolio Analyst Create alertInsider Discuss Financials Sponsored by: IBM 90.55, -5.10, -5.3%) said its third-quarter net income grew to $2.8 billion, or $2.05 a share, while revenue rose 5% to $25.3 billion compared to the same period a year earlier. For the full year, IBM reaffirmed its earnings target of at least $8.75 a share, an increase of 22% over the prior period. "We remain confident in our full-year outlook," IBM Chief Executive Samuel Palmisano said in a prepared statement. Analysts surveyed by FactSet Research expected third-quarter earnings of $2.01 a share on revenue of $26.5 billion, and earnings of $8.74 a share for the full year. Shares of IBM rose more than 3% in late trading following the earnings announcement, to $94.02. The shares had fared relatively well throughout the turmoil in financial markets during recent months but began to tank last week along with the Nasdaq as nervous investors ditched technology shares amid concern about the slowing economy. Palmisano cited "a steady base of recurring revenue and profits, investments for growth in emerging markets, a range of products and services that deliver value to clients, and a strong and flexible financial foundation." The Armonk, New York-based company said it will provide more detailed financial results later. IBM was expected to post its quarterly results next Thursday. Concerns have mounted over IBM's prospects recently, as many of its business customers are expected to cut back amid the ongoing credit crisis. See related story. Some analysts had even suggested the company might issue a warning about its third-quarter results prior to their scheduled release, rather than a positive affirmation for the full year. John Letzing is a MarketWatch reporter based in San Francisco.
Hmmmm... why isn't "screwing employees" cited as a reason for positive earnings outlook? Oh, yes, that's right.. they aren't "employees"... they are RESOURCES! I get it now.
Comment 10/08/08: Maybe this won't be funny for everyone, but it was funny for me! I'm just wondering how long it will take, and I personally don't think it will take too long, for others who have been trampled by this kind of scum to do something similar. Heh heh... CNBC Confirms Lehman CEO Punched at Gym Network verifies reports Richard Fuld was attacked for financial institution's bankruptcy.
By Jeff Poor
Business & Media Institute
10/6/2008 3:59:29 PM
It seems anxiety from the financial crisis is reaching new highs, but the tipping point for one individual came at the Lehman Brothers gym in the midst of the company’s collapse. While former Lehman CEO Richard Fuld was testifying before the House Oversight Committee Oct. 6, CNBC reported he had been punched in the face at the Lehman Brothers gym after it was announced the firm was going bankrupt. CNBC and Vanity Fair contributor Vicki Ward said Fuld was attacked at the gym on a Sunday following the bankruptcy. “Frankly, I sat there and listened and I’m with the guy who apparently, the day before Barclays announced they were coming in and Lehman had already filed for bankruptcy, went over to him in the gym and punched him because that’s how I feel when I, you know, when I watched that,” Ward said on the Oct. 6 “Power Lunch.” “I didn’t think he was contrite at all, I thought he was arrogant.” Ward confirmed previous reports about the incident that reportedly occurred Sept. 21 and said the information came from “two very senior sources.” “From two very senior sources – one incredibly senior source – that he went to the gym after … Lehman was announced as going under. He was on a treadmill with a heart monitor on. Someone was in the corner, pumping iron and he walked over and he knocked him out cold. And frankly after having watched this, I’d have done the same too.” Ward determined Fuld deserved the beating based on his testimony before the committee. “I thought he was shameless,” Ward said. “I thought it was appalling. He blamed everyone. He blamed, as you say, ‘naked short sellers’ over and over in case we didn’t get the point, when in fact hedge funds like Harbinger had money locked up in Lehman and was shorting it to try and make the most of the money that they already had. He blamed everybody but himself.” Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in September 2008 and its assets were later snatched up by the British bank Barclays for $1.35 billion, which included Lehman’s Midtown Manhattan office tower with a $960 million price tag.

Hope a few other execs get a little of the same. It is much less than they really deserve.

Alliance reply: While violence may be entertaining and seem justified; it is not the action that needs to be taken. Many companies that have filed for a piece of the $700B "bailout" have treated their employees poorly, by laying them off and worse. It's a good bet that many, if not all, were not employed with a union contract. The right strategy is to organize your co-workers and make the company come to the bargaining table. Violence begets violence; collective bargaining can beget a contract. Stand together, organize.

Comment 10/08/08: The lawsuit on executive compensation is a suggestion only unfortunately - I'm hoping that the Feds will not only investigate banks but also other companies -Anonymous-

Comment 10/07/08: Employees really disheartened at BTV. 700 employees to be layed off in November is what I've heard. No one is working. Everyone is waiting to be tapped. What a crap company IBM has become. We should have had a Union years ago to protect our jobs. :-( -I.C. Butts-

Comment 10/07/08: Lawsuit to demand Executive Compensation reviews and cuts, before any further RA's -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: Is this a suggestion or an actual filing in process? Please clarify.

Comment 10/07/08: To use nautical jargon; when seeing a storm of the magnitude we're seeing now, the old IBM would batten down the hatches and try to get through intact. The goal would be to come out of the downturn positioned to grow quickly and strongly when things turned upward. The new IBM will probably just start throwing things overboard, anything and everything that's not nailed down (by the way, panic is not a strategy). The sad part is that it probably won't make any difference. IBM's stock will rise and fall mostly due to the larger economic conditions and what investors guess the impact will be on IBM. Anything (or anyone) we jettison now is wasted, because it won't make the stock go up, it'll just make us weaker and less well positioned when the economy turns upward. IBM will lay off thousands and it won't make any difference, except to the people who get tossed out the door into a crumbling economy. By the way, one of my long time questions is just how many people total has IBM laid off since 1993? Have we churned the entire US workforce yet (i.e. laid off as many people as we have working now)? -BTV'er-
Comment 10/06/08: Ben Dover ... I'm hearing BTV will be ghost town .... huge cuts coming before the hoildays -GhostTown-
Comment 10/06/08: I heard there is going to be a big layoff mid November.. Has anyone heard the same? -Ben Dover-
Comment 10/06/08: IBM UC'd & Goat Rodeo Clown - How is new business being signed and GR'd without the Graco/Sarm Risk Review in place? New work can't be GR'd without the Teams in place and most of them should already have approved RRs for the work. This is auditable and Graco should know about it if you have proof that new business is transitioned overseas without approvals in place. As for Goat's comments about the stock market and not investing in IBM - I'm not a stock market genius but I think that most folks invest in IBM long term and will wait for things to rebound. When we choose what to invest in, most of us little guys are looking for things that retain their value over time, not just overnight. With retirement 25 years in my future (if I'm lucky) I'm not about to ditch all my IBM stock because there are idiots running the show right this moment. Eventually there will be new idiots running a new show and, with luck, I will still be here plugging along and watching my tiny investment slowly grow despite many ups and downs over time. The bigtime wall st investors don't care if a$$holes run the show today or tomorrow as long as they can keep playing the game. You say that long term investors would ditch IBM stock if only they knew how greedy our brass is? I don't think so. I think they know it and don't care as long as they can keep playing their games too. -FreedomIsHard-
Comment 10/06/08: AS mentioned numerous times in the past, IBM is going to gut the 08A family. This is in addition to the SE's. I am glad to be gone, but feel for my fellow I BM'ers. Cringley was correct on his statement. PLEASE do not doubt that. I think you can all see the writing now that JCS and Sam - Team have continued to gut the teams. The BOTTOM LINE is IBM is not cost competitive against TCS (Tata) and the other off shore companies. They are orders of magnitude cheaper than IBM. You will continue to see IBM slash jobs. There will not be back fill from US contractors, but will backfill with GR folks. IBM will push for the centers of excellence in fishkill and bolder. You will be offered a job there and if you refuse, no severance. BTW, your move is on you. They will gut ibm resources in North America (Canada as well) down to a skeleton staff. The sad part is that most clients are open to off shore resources due to the cost savings. What we all need is a goverment that doesnt encourage off shoring.. stop the tax breaks. Its going to get darker before we see any light on this. Dont leave ibm until you get an offer/package, but that is a personal choice. Keep your eyes open for opportunities and dont count on ibm to change.. it never will, the good days are gone. -ExIBM'er-
Comment 10/06/08: With the current economic climate, I do not see how IBM will be able to meet Wall St's earning expectations in the 4th quarter. Financial institutions are hard-hit, and they are major customers of IBM's hardware and software. So, watch out for more job cuts, as our greedy executives will do whatever they can to dress up the numbers. IBM will cut its way to profits. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/05/08: Just heard from a friend in SWG that a bunch of 1st line managers were told to find new jobs within 30 days or take the severance package. They have until October 31st. -miss understanding-
Comment 10/05/08: Anyone know what severance pay is right now for those that have been RA'd? Are people getting 3 months, 6 months or nothing (assuming at least 13 years of service)? -Anonymous-
Comment 10/03/08: Lots of full time regs in manufacturing in Rochester being asked about going part time. Rumors of layoffs and/or forced to a part time/non-standard work schedule. Time will tell.......... -homerJ-
Comment 10/03/08: -a_saved_one- Just curiosity. When you leave on your term, will you still have any benefit (e.g., health insurance) for a grace period or they terminate that right on the day you leave? -No_IBM-
Comment 10/03/08: The unfortunate truth about IBM is that this once great company is going down hill very fast. Employee morale on my team is the lowest I've ever seen. It's apparent that it's not a question of if, but when each one of us will get the axe. IBM wants to eventually shed every American employee from its payrolls that it can to cut labor costs. That's something that we already know. But their weakness in executing this plan is that they want, even need to do it on their own timetable. Attrition rates from employees finding other positions outside of IBM are starting to climb, and the ones leaving now are the talented individuals with the prized and marketable skills. It's very apparent to our customers and our fellow colleagues that IBM's ability to deliver for its customers is being adversely impacted. Everyone sees it. Everyone knows it. Each account is the same - there are too many projects to be completed and no longer enough qualified personnel to work on completing them. The skill sets needed are literally walking out the door to IBM's competitors each and every day. The good advice someone gave me once in my BOV (Becoming One Voice) class when I joined IBM was to keep yourself marketable, and search for another job while you still have a job. Everyone on here should be putting their resumes on Monster and CareerBuilder to see for themselves the various job opportunities and the real pay scales that currently exist outside this Blue Hell Hole. IBM's current state is directly related to the culture of greed and avarice that is causing the Wall Street meltdown. Of course, we know this already. However, I struggle with the fact that I am witnessing the acts of greed by the executives of this company and feel powerless to do anything about it. I ask myself, "Am I the only one that sees what is going on?" Regarding the comments posted by IBM UC'd, deception toward the customer is one thing, but if IBM is knowingly in breach of contract then something should be done. Granted, a simple breach of contract is a civil matter, but if there are laws that stipulate non-US labor can't be used on certain accounts due to regulatory requirements and those laws are being broken, doesn't that make us an accessory to the crime? Who can we report this to so that an investigation can be considered? The US Attorney's office? If I had solid documentation that laws were being broken, I would personally report them, if only I knew where to report them! The most egregious violation of stockholder trust being committed is the manner in which new business is being signed. Contracts are being signed with customers that have outrageous financial penalties due to missed SLA targets. The SLA's are so ridiculous that it has the effect of generating a monthly annuity stream of income back to the customer. It makes me suspect that both parties involved are somehow cooking their accounting books. Profitability is not the objective with the IBM executives above me. Their directive for one high-profile account is to get the signature on the contract "at all cost." Labor and pricing models are being thrown to the wind, and the profitability of the deal is uncertain. They couldn't care less. Now, why would IBM sign a $1B contract with a customer if it's going to lose money? The motive circles back to that of the current issue of greed on Wall Street. By winning the doomed contract, IBM can issue a press release that it signed a contract with a huge customer. The news sounds good to investors and the stock price goes up. The execs cash
out their vested options for more money due to higher stock prices inflated by nothing less than deception. They won't be here in 5 or 10 years, so why should they care if IBM remains solvent? Their short-term profits will be invested safely elsewhere. Is it illegal? Probably not. However, due to the current environment on Wall Street shouldn't the investors be somehow made aware of the level of greed and incompetence in our executive ranks? Long-term investors and mutual fund managers would be quick to divest IBM from their portfolios if they knew this level of self-serving greed is taking place inside IBM. These execs are slowly destroying this company by looking quarter to quarter. How badly would the economy be impacted if IBM were to fail? How can so many of the unprofitable customer accounts that we currently have be hidden in the accounting ledgers? How is IBM accounting hiding all of these losses? I have no doubt that in 5 years IBM will wind up like Enron, or at the very least its individual divisions will be spun off and sold. Just like the networking division was sold to AT&T. Good luck to us all... -Goat Rodeo Clown-

Alliance reply: We have already sent the information about possible Sarbanes Oxley violations to some people for possible action.
Comment 10/03/08: I'm on a meeting now that describes how the new 6 India people on our team will be displacing 6 US team members. This will be taking place in mid-November or so. -Wellpoint-US-grunt-
Comment 10/03/08: IBM is in a big move to show figures before the 16th when the reports go out to stockholders; and looking for anything to scramble cut, even if tactically necessary for completion. Two full time PM's had to be let go for a part time (32 hr a week PM from Bangalore) and to cover up the fact that some replacements from India on Sametime are having their addresses changed to local data centers (Boulder, Denver, St Louis, Lexington, Schaumberg) instead of India so as the clients won't panic. Many of these client facing accounts have explicit instructions never to be offshored due to Sarbanes Oxley, HIPPA, USC 16 laws (credit protection laws including FDCRA) and even on several accounts with HS (Homeland Security) and even NSA out of Ft. Meade as well as other State (Penn, CA, MN and TX as well as GA big time) and many Federal accounts. PO's for servers are being sent out as secondhand units often with parts missing (RSA cards, etc.) to fill LPAR requests. Yet this is being done for quick cash infusion and could cause big problems. They are talking about rehiring back in January-March, but getting people back as contractors at a MUCH lower rate. I figured you would like the news from the inside. -IBM UC'd-
Comment 10/02/08: Latest news is that after the PM's and contractors were released last month is that a really bright idea came from a level 4 exec to change ST addresses on people out of India to datacenter locations so that they wont get problems with contracts that require no overseas work (SARBANES OXLEY/HIPPA). They did it, start noticing people based in Boulder, St Louis and Lexington with really long names are really in Bangalore. Start noticing that this is a trend more and more - GUESS WHY!?!?!? -IBM'r under cover-
Comment 10/02/08: Yep, India is too expensive for this blue pig. That's why even they are not immune from the ravages of IBM's "globalization" . You'll not hear any layoffs in China. Sammy loves kissing commies. That's why Gerstner who was in infacuated with Red China gave him his job. -anonymous-
Comment 10/01/08: IBM stock price dropped about $6 and change. How is IBM to recover? By cutting more USA jobs of course. When R U folks gonna unionize and protect your jobs? -Anonymous-
Comment 10/01/08: Some incredibly intelligent manager left a printout of a RA package in a common printer room. Thumbed through it...this RA will be large. The list of impacted employees broken down by Title, Band, etc. (which is standard for the package materials those who are cut will receive) was VERY extensive. I was RA'd in the past - my package printout was probably around 60 pages (2001), but this one is much larger - at least 3X the size of the list. This was a GTS printout - so I am sure it doesn't cover all affected org's. -Anonymous-
Comment 10/01/08: Rumored large layoff coming to the Rational brand of SWG, too. -irRational-
Comment 10/01/08: I'm hearing from a VERY good source that IBM India will lay-off 11,000 people ..... yup, you read right, IBM India. Also, albeit smaller, BTV will shrink down to 3800 employees in November and many BEOL operations being moved to Fishkill and Bromont .... and BTV will be focused on some large customers, like Intersil -TheyDoNotCare-
Comment 10/01/08: To -another IBM serial#- yes, October is the month. Lots of PMs, administrative folks (what's left of them), S/As and other techies slated to get the ax. I hear upwards of a thousand or so. These are just rumors that are floating around in my dept, but you know how
those rumors go. They usually turn out to be correct. Off-shoring is continuing. We're reaching the end of the year, and IGS is behind on
their target of 80 - 85% offshored US workers by years end. -miss understanding-

Comment 10/01/08: RA notifications today - Some public sector SDMs were impacted. Not getting a good feeling for how widespread it is. -mad that I didn't get the call-
Comment 10/01/08: If I hear one more time that approving this $700 billion dollar bail-out will keep jobs, I am going to barf. I say let it sink. I am already training my Indian replacements, and considered personal bankruptcy. All the money in the world will not stop greedy corporations from
sending all the jobs overseas. This is something that needs to stop! You see it everyday, don't you.
-On Borrowed Time-
Comment 10/01/08: Rumored IBM pending large scale US layoffs in Global Services. If anyone has info please post. -another IBM serial#-
Comment 9/30/08: dubious: I agree. Palmisano is a greedy bastard making an OBSCENE amount of money. He skims of the top of every hard working IBMers paycheck. The IBM employees have had ENOUGH of this greed. Your 401K may burn in hell because of the damage greedy bastards like Palmisano have done to the financial market in this country. -had enough-
Comment 9/29/08: there is a revolution brewing in this country. It is incubating. We all can feel it. I don't sense it as violent; but as a social attack on the greedy, evil. If you evil, greedy, plastic, fat, phony, not too smart, pretentious, selfishly assuming entitled, night of the living dead, spread sheet humping, no clue about day to day, absentee parents, think you will go unpunished, I'll bet my 401k account you burn in hell -dubious-
Comment 9/28/08: Has there been any progress on the second OT lawsuit? I know that myself and plenty of others didn't sign up for it as we feared our jobs would be impacted. -ExIBM'er-
Comment 9/28/08: I have heard from multiple 2nd line managers that I still communicate with that the debanding of the SA's has totally backfired! Upper management, in the ivory towers, had ZERO clue to the actual amount of hours that folks were putting in. There is now case after case after case where SA's are making more on OT than their regular checks! I am hearing grumblings from morre than one manager who wants to go back to being a tech, because the pay difference is HUGE! Save those dollars while you can.. IBM assumed this would be a pay decrease. They are now ramping plans to get more folks into the regions centers (Fishkill - Boulder) and off shore ASAP.. The money wont last, but please stick them for what ever you can get! Pay down your debts so when you do get axed, which you will, your in better shape that you are today. Much more grumbling on the PM's I have posted that they would be screwed more than a year ago. This has come to fruition. All 300 of the contractors were axed. They are using freshers from India to do the PM work. These guys are PMI - PMP, but most lack common IT experience (Picture the paper MCSE - Same thing) IBM is pushing to the same model as TCS (TaTa) where they will have a skelton staff on US soil with the core team in low cost GR's.. sad but true. TCS is eating ibm's lunch.. they cannot compete cost wise and customers dont care anymore.. if they can save 50% by going offshore.. they will. The good news is some companies are actually insiting on US based jobs.. lets hope that more and more boards become patriotic and realize that they are on screwing the US by offshoring all of their work. Killing off the middle class of America, thru offshoring, will have a negative effect.. lets hope the boards of these companies realize that. Good luck to all.. especially the 08A family.. your targeted and forced attricition / corporate snipers have you in their sites. SDM's are being target in the near future as well. Cringley's 350,000 job loss was accurate!... ibm has been back peddling and redoing the plan becuase of all of the attention. as long as you realize ibm is no longer a career, but a sweatshop to gain experience, your fine. Dont bleed blue... unless you can get a union contract in place. -ExIBM'er-
Comment 9/27/08: -Exodus2007- Set up an e-mail for this use, and abandon it after the initial contact is made. -Mule Skinner-
Comment 9/25/08: 'Is there anybody alive out there?" I think now I finally understand these Bruce Springsteen words. We are in the midst of the 'biggest' financial crisis--why, because it involves big companies and big executives. If we don't bail them out, it will be a disaster. And it probably will. But what I don't understand is talk about executives receiving cuts in their so-called golden parachutes. Cuts??? Excuse me, cuts??? Why the hell should they be paid at all? If anything, the companies should go after them and take back their salaries for the preceding years. And that is a minimum. Personally, I think they should go to jail. All of a sudden, this is a BIG deal because it's BIG companies? Nobody had any concern for the typical worker who was laid off, or had pensions reduced--or eliminated--if you look at the security of many of today's 401Ks you might as well say they were eliminated. Almost everyone who is even reading this website is someone who has been, or is being threatened to be, a 'voluntary' separation from IBM. They have taken personal hits that in some cases resulted in total devastation for themselves and their own retirement goals and also their children. But IBM and the other big shots don't seem to think about that--we don't matter at all. Well, now we do matter. Even though most of the execs in this bailout are already financially set for lives, they do have to feel some shame. I'm sure their kids feel it also. For me, though, I'm proud that I left when I did and I'm also prouder of the fact that although I was (as were many employees) always forced to look upon these 'executives' as some type of god, this whole financial catastrophe is proving what I knew all along when I worked at IBM--they are no smarter than any of the rest of us. In fact, they are probably stupider than most. Many of us at least managed to survive and did not shame ourselves or our families with our sick greed. So, if there is 'anybody alive out there,' don't you think it is time you got together and maybe joined the union?? Or do you want them to continue to be allowed to make fools of us all--stealing our pensions, etc. Think about it, please. Unless the majority of workers organizes and unionizes, these atrocities will continue. -anon-
Comment 9/24/08: To -Joe Punchclock- I am not real sure how to go about contacting one another. I do not think posting an email address or a phone number would work because I don't want to get bombarded by spam or prank calls. I will look into setting up a email just for this . Thank you for your kind words if nothing else. -Exodus2007-
Comment 9/24/08: Thanks for the advice guys. I did take the package and left.. However, the release they made me sign is the (EXACT) same one that triggered the class action lawsuit in 2005. To be honest, I managed to make a nest for myself and frankly, its never been about money. Its about what is right and what is WRONG. The dismissal is so blatant (I have it in writing requesting a "fresh college aged student" on a job req I had been doing for 5 years. Just with a new group. Time is on my side as I am in school part time, and making more money part time with a staffing agency (doing the same job I might add) than I ever did with these fools. Regarding old customer signing, I suspect the contract was pulled because they are tied in this financial mess on Wall Street, and about to be bought, or sold to the Feds. Going back would be a step backwards I realized this after doing some more soul searching. If I don't get a dime, I don't care. What I want is someone to squirm and worry like I did for the past 6 months, and if nothing else, admit they were WRONG!! Leaving for Aruba on 9/25 for 3 weeks.....YAHOOOOOOOO. If you are still around, talk to your colleagues about the union DO IT. If you have left like myself, life is LOTS different when you are treated like a person, rather than a piece of meat resolving the lies they tell our customers with NO HELP AND NO ONE WHO WOULD TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT ANYTHING. I wish you all much luck. Thanks all....I will miss it, but not for much longer. Have a great life all!! -Pissed Off-
Comment 9/23/08: Exodus2007 - you are a man with common sense, who's words have reached me. How can I contact you? -Joe Punchclock-
Comment 9/23/08:  I understand the purpose of a union contract. I also realize that the chance of you getting any kind of reinstatement of the pre-1995 pension is pretty much zero. Start with some small victories before tackling the big ones. -Go Blue-
Alliance Reply:  It is agreed that getting IBM to undo its dirty work of 1995 has little chance of happening. However, the point we are making, is that a union contract, could be written with a stipulation that reflects the good version of the pre-1995 pension for its employees. Retirees on the 1995 and 1999 affected 'old plan', fortunately or unfortunately, have what they have for now. If you are an active employee; a union contract could make things better for your retirement. Without a union contract, nothing will change for the better.

Comment 9/23/08: What infuriates me is if any of us go higher risk in our 401k"s and lose it all to a market fall we are told tough luck. Thats why it pays better sometimes. It is higher risk and no one bails us out. The first rule and regulation they MUST put in place before a penny is spent bailing anyone out is NO GOLDEN PARACHUTES. If an executive does a decent job his bonus money should be plenty for him or her to save towards retirement. Furthermore. Any company bailed out cannot pay ANY executives a bonus at all untill the bailout is repayed. If they had done their jobs properly they would not be reaching into my pocket. The board of directors should be fired and blacklisted from sitting on any companies board that has been bailed out as they failed to do their primary job and oversee the well being of the company they were paid to direct. As the books are " Uncooked " any executive bonuses paid for errroneous numbers should be repaid to the company towards the bailout debt for the past 5 years or whatever the statute of limitations is. Repayment of said funds or face prosecution as a criminal. Ill gotten gains are ill gotten gains. As obviously the average American can not trust the investment firms to properly invest or safeguard their pensions any company that converted to cash balance 401k hybrid type pensions must restore old pension plans. If huge investment firms cannot manage their money and survive Wall street greed how can the Average Joe be expected to. If Wall street and corporate america wants more of our money they must put back one of the pillars of our society, the defined pension. Fund the pension plans with executive bonus and raise money untill fully funded. Dont worry. Those fat cat executives will not leave and take a job digging ditches just to spite you. They will cling to their cushy offices in their ivory towers untill the playing field levels and the heat is off and they can start collecting bonus money for actual performance.-Exodus2007-
Comment 9/23/08: To: -ibmnomore- Re: Comment 9/21/08: "Tivoli managers requested WORLDWIDE to cut costs (and workforce...) by 20%. Effective immediately. (got from a trusted source...)" Do you have any more details on this you can share? Deadlines? All I am waiting for is a package offer!   -*** BOHICA ***-
Comment 9/22/08: sby_willie - whatever changes happened in 1995 are so far in the past it doesn't matter. You don't really expect any union to get those changes rescinded, do you? All I read about is how unions are sometimes able to stop any further changes. -Go Blue-
Alliance Reply: You don't understand the function of a union contract. A union contract specifys all items of agreement; which include, pensions, medical benefits, pay rate for regular hours, OT pay rate, holidays, layoff restrictions, grievance procedures, and contract renegotiation terms, just to name a few. You need to read more about other companies that are unionized and have active contracts that are functioning quite well. The SBC company contract is posted on our web site as an example: The Value Of A Union Contract

Comment 9/22/08: How long before a riot, that is what I am wondering. With the bailout of these banks that's going to put tax pressure on all of us--pressure that will hurt the middle class even more, how can they still even consider paying the exexutives such exorbitant salaries? I think there is going to come a time when a disgruntled former employee snaps as he hears about the exec payouts while he wonders how he'll pay his mortgage and feed his family. I'm amazed that no employee has yet grabbed a manager or an exec by his tie and given him (or her!) a good black shiner. Being Italian, I'd prefer two broken legs but I try to live my life in peace. However, I think riots are on the near horizon, both inside and outside offices! It's getting to the point where that is a last resort--get rid of these greedy losers once and for all!! Jail is the real place most of them should be, and for many years. They are willingly ruining the country and the lives of its citizens. -anon-
Comment 9/22/08: "Doesn't anyone remember when they took the estimator tool down so nobody could see what they had?????" Yes, one day it was gone and no one would tell me anything as to where it went. I called HR and they wouldn't tell me anything. Bottom line is that IBM can change the rules whenever they want when there is no Union to fight back. They will keep changing the rules to suit them until there is a Union. The people that think IBM treats them well now will see what I'm talking about. IBM is like a mean dog. Some days it will be nice and let you pet him but one day it will bite back and take your hand off. People, wise up and stand up to this corporate mean dog and support the Alliance! :-) -Harry Shaft-
Comment 9/21/08: anon - unemployment benefit rules regarding the effect of severence benefits vary significantly depending on the state of your employment. Not every state is as generous as yours. It is advisable for everyone at risk of being affected by severance pay issues consult their state's unemployment law and policies. Some issues to research
- when do you become eligible for unemployment if given a severance package
- the amount of the unemployment paid,
- specific rules to maintain eligibility/deny eligibility for unemployment, e.g. number of jobs applied for per month, jobs you are required to take else you lose eligibility, etc.
- how long you will receive unemployment benefits.
- what happens if while unemployed you become disabled and unable to work.

Comment 9/21/08: Tivoli managers requested WORLDWIDE to cut costs (and workforce...) by 20%. Effective immediately. (got from a trusted source...) regards -ibmnomore-
Comment 9/20/08: Severance pay--someone posted below that if you don't get severance pay, you will get unemployment. The good news is even if you do get severance, you do get unemployment anyway. I got it for about a year which was great because it allowed me to go back to school for a second masters degree since I wanted to change careers. Also, with unemployment, you do not have to accept a job that is less than 80% (or something around there) of your former salary, so you have a while to shop around rather than settle with just anything. -anon-
Comment 9/20/08: I took my early retirement back in 2005 with 25 years of service and I know you do not get the full pension--I worked in HR. My 'pension' is pitiful. Since I am single with a daughter, my accountant advised me to take it out in cash because he figured that with the cash that was there I would have to live at least 15 years before I collected it all monthly, and with no surviving spouse to leave the payments to, I'd lose it all if I died earlier! My child would get nothing--so instead we took it out and put it into an IRA. That way if something happened to me, she would still have somehing and IBM would NOT get away with keeping what was mine. Also, I know that the pension formulas were changed a few times during the last 10 years I was there. Doesn't anyone remember when they took the estimator tool down so nobody could see what they had????? -aon-
Comment 9/19/08: To>>-Go Blue- >> If you did not retire prior to YE2007, you kissed the 10% of Full Pension away. You will get your FHA, and whatever your Vested Rights payments were from the past 2'nd choicer plan. You seem to be very naive of the plan changes and the Pension FREEZE. Either that or you are "full of Palmisano". -no_ky-
Comment 9/19/08: I left IBM on my terms months ago. Could not afford to look around unsatisfied people complaining and doing nothing about job conditions. Not even writing a resume. IBM has become a greed company. HR policy is now only about top 10% (top talent, technical and exec resources) and becoming one of them mean serving your manager as a slave. It was a great satisfaction to leave 1st and 2nd line manager with a (new) salary greater than theirs. And I left behind people fighting each other to get "visibility". Today's life at IBM is just that. Manager do lot of meetings to identify poor performers (i.e. people who not behave like them expect). Good luck IBMers. You may even be in the top talent list (now), but you are getting older and your turn will come. -a_saved_one-
Comment 9/19/08: -Go Blue- The bottom line is this. If you are 55, pension eligible and have enough money to retire, then getting RA'ed is the best thing that can happen to you. You 'may' get severence and if you don't, you can go collect unemployment. However, if you don't have enough money to retire and want to continue working at IBM with the higher salary you just got, then joining the union can help keep your job secure and help prevent losing more benefits in the future. That's the bottom line.-esc-
Comment 9/18/08: Go-Blue: If you are in the old pension plan as a choicer you still lost some of your full pension in 1995. IBM changed the formula on you then. Were you aware of this? -sby_willie-
Comment 09/18/08: No, I am not in the cash balance plan. As I said, I have the full pension that employees get at 55 and 15 or more years service. -Go Blue-
Comment 09/18/08: To Joe--I left after 25 years, and it was rough at first, like an identify crisis shift! Now, almost four years later, I wonder how I ever worked there. I'm now working in public service AND IN A UNION. A little less pay than IBM but better health, and after 15 years, I have free health benefits for life so the cut in pay was worth it. You'll probably go through a little bit of a depression at the beginning but if you survived IBM for 23 years, you will definitely find something soon and I bet that overall, the quality of your life will improve drastically. Instead of commuting three hours a day and working ridiculous hours, I now have normal workdays and a commute that is between 10-15 minutes each way. I also LOVE what I'm doing--working with disabled kids. I feel a whole lot better about myself than I did doing the job I had in Human Resources which was basically looking for ways to screw people over the last few years. Be positive and be confident, and I'd highly recommend a job with a union. When I think of the sweat I went through those last 6 months at IBM, pure torture, so-called friends backstabbling, a miserable manager... The worst is behind you. Update your resume, and move forward. And most of all, don't let the SOBs strip you of your confidence. They sure tried to do it to me during my last few months, but now, finally, for the first time in many, many years, I'm actually enjoying my life and you will also! -anon-
Comment 09/18/08: -Go Blue- You think you got a FULL pension? You are in the cash pittance plan, right? Do the math. You lost big in your pension. It's naive folks like you that IBM craves. Try some more of the koolaid. The next flavor coming from Armonk is supposedly "new and improved" and sure to quench your thirst! great. -jim_Jones-
Comment 09/18/08: Go Blue: You don't get anything close to full IBM vested pension. You probably got the cash balance plan. You lost big time with it. Also, IBM froze all pension plans last year so you have no chance to get your full cash balance pension now. Do you have it IN WRITING from IBM that they GUARANTEE that you'll get the Future Hell Account (FHA)? Without a union contract IBM can take this away at any time. Look at all the takeaways or reductions in benefits from IBM. The chances of you not getting the full FHA in your lifetime is better than an even bet. Also, by the way, the FHA is a notional account. No real money in it to purchase health benefits from IBM. It's not protected like your pension by any law (pensions sare protected by ERISA). The FHA funds are basically the equivalent of poker chips. And you're all in? The bluff is very well on you then. Gerstner got his medical benefits in writing from IBM for his retirement. Then why are you so happy without a contract for your retirement benefits? -sby_willie-
Comment 09/18/08: No wonder IBM employees can't unionize if they are all like Go Blue. Gotta hand it to IBM recruiting. They hire the best gullible folks they can. -anonymous-
Comment 09/17/08: Hey Go Blue, I'm very happy for you getting a great raise! I hope you sunk it all into AIG and took a great fall!! -humpty dumpty-
Comment 09/17/08: Working for Big Blue has made me so poor (no raises) that there's a kid in Somalia with a picture of ME in his wallet! -Anonymous-
Comment 09/17/08: To Joe: I've been Ra'd, laid off, global resourced, whatever you choose to call it, many times over the last 25 years. It's a part of life. Take a deep breath, dust yourself off, and know that life goes on. It's a blow for many, and not for those of us that it's happened to many times before. You will find another job, move on with life, and forget about this. Just remember it's not the end of the world. The shock will wear off. Hang in there. -Ra'd too-
Comment 09/17/08: I lost my job in Sterling forest as part of a RA. Very sad. I work in division 23 and have been working for this company for 23 years.. -Joe-
Comment 09/17/08: Hey -Go Blue- if you're an engineer then I suppose you have some analytical expertise - no doubt you've noticed the changes, analyzed the situation, and determined that the most important skills these days are your sucking-up skills, which you must have got pretty good at to still be around - can't say much for your analytical expertise as far as a pension goes though - "full pension"?!?!? - first the pension plan was frozen, second at 15 years you would have to have the (now frozen!) crappy cash balance plan which is not a pension plan in any conventional sense of the word. -that was funny-
Comment 09/17/08: -Go Blue-: First, why do you visit this site? You apparently don't like unions... Second, Aren't you the same person that posted here in the past and went by "Big Blue"? Why do you continue to ask rhetorical questions on this board? I think you're a union buster of some flavor, and you are lucky that Alliance has posted your comment... I think Alliance should avoid giving you any benefit of the doubt. After all, you are clearly not interested in being a member..Go away. -bustunions-
Comment 09/16/08:  Congrats - IT' S TRUE - 200 PROJECT MANAGERS LAID OFF YESTERDAY. All contractors - reason why??? NO PRESS needed. First off, I am an IBM contract employee, have been for over 4+ years until the end of this month. Just learned that a ton of contract workers for various companies are getting let go from IBM at the end of this month - ALL PROJECT MANGERS (Global Svs). We started wondering when they had a "excellence through improvement" meeting last month, which is a bi-weekly meeting I am sure you have heard of. In this meeting a middle topic was the fact that a new item"IBM CERTIFICATION" for Project Managers was planned for better client facing to be heavily implemented with over 350 new Project Managers coming out of the new facility in Bangalore, India. <DANGER WILL ROBINSON - DANGER> This greatly concerned many of the PM's like me who have PMP, PMI as well as Six Sigma certs and this was a new one - how do we get it??? Answer - No way, you are contractors and right now the only new people getting it are IBM internal (IE: India). All current PM's that are US/Canada based are being phased out for contractors and then the contractors are being eliminated for this... Originally we were told that no PM's from India would be around customer interactive/facing accounts, looks like this is getting turned around. Additionally more steady state and transition work is going to South America and India completely now with no stateside support. This means all automation and source codes for all product lines are elsewhere and none here on the mainland. Usually the old line is "never show anyone the source code" - that is out of the box here now. Additionally these PM's from India don't even have BASIC PMI/PMP certifications, just the IBM CERTIFICATION. also look for more layoffs near the holidays, not LEAN this time, but basically will start clearing people - anyone close to the upper edges on dates will soon start getting sent to under/over qualified position and reassigned for bad performance reviews or no CSA's available. (couple of PM's already sent to be OTM <Overall Transition Managers> due to their seniority). What is happening is that they are told there are either no OTM positions and laid off or get bad review and let go with a "sorry to see you go". -Anonymous-
Comment 09/16/08:  This was posted on the ibm stock message board on Yahoo/Finance: "IBM layoffs in Edmonton Allberta Canada". Can anyone confirm this? -BlueSucks-
Comment 09/16/08:  I'm an engineer that got a promotion and a good raise a few months ago. I'm 55 with 15 years service, so I qualify for full pension and FHA. If I believed what I read here I would have been unemployed five years ago with a smaller pension. Why should I sign up with the Alliance? -Go Blue-
Comment 09/16/08:  GTS Integrated Technology Services Resource Action (GIRA) package in process. I rec'd notification 9/15 that I have 30 days to "find another oppty in IBM" or be "let go". The package calls this a"permanent layoff". There are 8 pages of job/titles within ITS impacted by this RA, majority are age 40+, like myself, in higher band roles so also likely within a few years of retirement and 2's on"manage out" and "prior pension plan" like me. There is no waiver per say, but the terms of signing the agreement indicate you will not sue IBM for age/race discrimation, or for any other reason. -JustanIBMachine-
Comment 09/16/08:  Agree on the off-shore of work and visas into the US is directly related to the lack of jobs and problems with economy. Everyone is afraid to ask it for some reason. Do we need to bring all these people here? Where can I vote on this question? -None-
Comment 09/16/08:  Question for the Alliance (or anyone in the know): Does anyone have a figure, by year, as to how many IBMers have been RA'ed over the past few years? Curiosity is getting to me. I was wondering if anyone is tracking this (other than the blue pig itself). -Mistressofthei5-
Comment 09/16/08:  Best of luck to Joe and his family. You have joined the ever growing ranks of people who can put the letters EX infront of IBMer. Remember you came to IBM looking for a job and you are just leaving the same way. Get even by enjoying the rest of your life! -Exodus2007-
Comment 09/16/08:  Economic crisis in US triggered by offshoring jobs. Like didn't the US govt see this coming? What about the huge number of H1B visas where people come onshore, work and get paid in their home countries? US breadwinner loses job to India, US breadwinner can't find another job, US breadwinner does not pay mortgage. But companies like IBM, well their CEOs are still getting their multimillion dollar pay and bonuses. I never thought IBM would influence the vote, but hey forget the values, whoever keeps jobs in the US ...should be the next President. -Saw it coming-
Comment 09/16/08: Re Joe's post: What is the deal with 23 years? I've seen this number more than once, and I also was RA'ed (in 2005) at 23+ years - under the rules at the time (I don't know if this is still the case), I would have received additional severance benefits at 24 1/2 years (bridging to 25 years), which made me suspicious (same old story, I had good ratings etc. - in fact I did some part time work for IP Law - THEY called me! - after I left, finishing up some in-progress patents, more to improve my resume than for the money really) - I wondered whether freezing the pension plan might cut down on this sort of thing, but apparently not. The relatively small-scale rolling RAs is a clever strategy, since it seems to make it impossible to obtain U.S.-wide longer term RA'ed age numbers (which I'm sure would show blatant age discrimination, even more convincingly than the Burlington case). Joe don't worry - part of the problem (at least this was true for me) with working for IBM so long is that your job has become part of your identity. However the fact that you lasted so long indicates that you must have excellent skills (whatever your job was), not to mention experience, which should open up many new opportunities for you. Good luck! For others: it would be a good idea to read the Alliance reply to Joe's post carefully. -jtr-
Comment 09/15/08:  I was RA'ed today after 23 years of service . I'm beside myself.. My life has been turned upside down by this company. How many lives have be ruined? -Joe-
Alliance reply: We are sorry for your job loss. This has been happening for more than a decade. The number of lives ruined is inversely proportional to the amount of IBMers it will take to decide that a union contract is what they really need.
Many others have waited until it is too late. To those IBMers still hanging on: Organize now. We can help. Join Alliance@IBM / Alliance@IBM

Comment 09/15/08:  "H-P to slash nearly 25,000 jobs as part of EDS deal"...... Not to be outdone; I'm sure IBM will try to top this -Anon-
Comment 09/15/08:  Did you hear HP is cutting 24,600 Jobs , I guess those are due to folks from EDS.. plus one of the worst days on Wall Street!! -IBM_smaher-
Comment 09/15/08:  Thanks to the Alliance for having my back. Already protecting me. Thats great. I am a retiree. I know the only way my pension will see an increase or my medical a decrease is through a union contract. That is one reason I support a union. Another is that as an SSR I saw so much rampant favoritism; that to do nothing, was intolerable to me. I would let my co workers see my Alliance union card as a way to open the conversation to join the Alliance. Management appointing their friends to bully the rest of the team and not even bothering to pretend to listen to anyone but their friends is nothing but arrogance and is certainly not the leadership that made IBM great. Workers need something to feel loyal to. IBM as a corporate entity has left that need in a vacuum. Nature abhors a vacuum. Workers can fill that vacuum by joining with their coworkers in an alliance to make their corporate and personal lives better. The greed mongers in the investment world have driven the US economy to the brink of depression. This is destroying peoples 401k's and their future retirements. Our kids will be lucky to eat when they get to retirement. The only answer to corporate greed and Wall Street running over you is to unionize America. I don't know about the rest of you, but I can not grow enough food on my property to feed myself year to year and I bet most of you are in the same boat. A decent job with a decent pension at the end is the best we can do. We need to save American Jobs and our own families future NOW. Once the jobs are gone they will not come back. For the folks sick of hearing this message from me, too bad. Do not come to a football game and expect the hometeam's cheerleaders to root for the other team. By the way. I am a Republican who believes that we need strong companies to promote job growth and strong unions for employee well being and the two entities can work together to create a booming American economy once again. -Exodus2007-
Comment 09/15/08:  To Frustrated: I can understand why they don't listen to you with a derogatory attitude like that! "idiot youngsters", "dumb", yea...I'd jump on your bandwagon -Youngster-
Comment 09/14/08:  Several big hush-hush mtgs with mgrs here in BTV ... rumor mill is 1000 employees being let go by end of the month. This would devastate the BTV area. But I'm hearing it will also show where and what IBM plans on doing with BTV. -BTV Blind-
Comment 09/14/08:  To Frustrated: I agree with you! I am also feeling frustrated too. But we know why IBM hired them: to save money for the blue pig and also pimp them so the older management can reap in their high bonuses and such by the savings. We have to still try always to make the message to those in their 20's or first job out of college that the reason they got their job in IBM is not that they are necessarily the best of the bunch, but that they came CHEAP to IBM as the primary reason. Maybe if they realise that IBM doesn't truly respect them, and that almost all of them will have no career in IBM, they might finally listen and join the Alliance. Particularly when they find that the job market for them will turn increasingly woeful in USA I/T. I think the day is soon coming for this too. Keep the faith! -frustrated-but-hopeful-
Comment 09/14/08: When I left the business a year ago, the goal was 80% of the IGS offshored. Do you think the goal has changed? Oh and do you put yourself in the 20% who are left. Another question, if you are a part of that 20%, what have you gained? More hours, more frustration, and no pay increases. You have the opportunity to take control of your future - join the Alliance - it is exactly what management doesn't want! -smiley-
Comment 09/13/08: I am 40 and work with a lot of "kids". Mid 20's. When I mention that they should join alliance and why, they laugh. Not to mention the youth today has no respect what so ever. How do we make them understand before they find out the hard way? I think if we can get these idiot youngsters to understand, we will have a lot more membership, power and pull. They are so damn dumb though, it seems you can't talk to them. -Frustrated-
Comment 09/13/08: IBM made the Wall Street list of A Dozen Companies Which Should Lay-Off 10,000 People This Year.
Here is the IBM piece of the article:
"Why would IBM (IBM), one of the world's most successful technology companies, ever cut staff? To save money. There were rumors over a year ago that the firm would lay-off 150,000 people and bring them back as consultants or move the jobs to Asia. That did not happen, but there was some real sense behind the discussion. Last year, IBM's employee count in India rose from 52,000 to 73,000. Big Blue has about 350,000 workers worldwide. While IBM's total revenue is growing at 13% based on last quarter's numbers, it does have some segments which are not doing nearly as well. Revenue in the company's systems and technology group was up only 2% for the period. Financing operations are also lagging IBM's total growth. Management at the firm has made its mark by driving efficiency and controlling costs. IBM may not cut 10,000 worldwide, but it is a good bet that a lot of jobs will be sliced in the US. Most of that work is going to India."
What is everyone waiting for? Do you just read this message board for entertainment? Why should Sammy Palmacrapo and his merry band of thieves be raking in the millions while at the same time taking your job and send it to India to cut costs. Come on people.. enough is enough. This is simply ABUSE by these corporate crooks. Please support the Alliance and lets form a Union to fight back! -Anonymous-

Comment 09/12/08: well in east fishkill, NXP will be closing in 2009....what about IBM EF?? Watch and you will see we will be next!!! -ibmdownhill-
Comment 09/12/08: In refrence to the post about SDM in INDIA one of my accounts had an SDM from INDIA covering. The SDM also came back find out one of their accounts is in scope for the support work to to be GR'd when that account had been out scope until now -Anon-
Comment 09/11/08: IGS in Canada is losing huge clients to Brazil and Argentina. I would love to join the Alliance, but being Canadian, we're on our own here. I would urge everyone who works in the US to join and do what they can to protect themselves. Before we know it, all our accounts will be out of North America. It's happening now. Good Luck everyone, we're going to need it. -Northern IBMer-
Alliance reply: IBM Canada employees should contact:

Comment 09/11/08: To irRational: 20% cut in Tivoli Development, but I think other areas will be affected, too. I don't think we'd need a lot of Project Managers if we have 20% fewer folks writing code. Not sure if WebSphere, Lotus, DB2 will be hit, although I think it depends a lot on whether the "pillar" is profitable or not. -Anonymous-
Comment 09/11/08: Is Exodus a paying dues member? He posts so many "unionize" messages on here it's getting old. -Sudoxe-
Alliance reply: We can't say one way or the other.
As for his "unionize" posts; you may have noticed when you visited this site, that we're an IBM Employee advocate and union organizing campaign. If his message or our message is old for you, then you have every right not to visit here.

Comment 09/10/08: the 20% cut for Tivoli in RTP is being planned. Any more details on that? Is it an across-the-board headcount cut? Or will it target some specific groups? Any word on whether this is the Tivoli brand only, or across a swath of SWG? -irRational-
Comment 09/10/08: Don't criticise, UNIONIZE. Do not complain about poor leaders in management. Lead yourself to a union contract. Get even with management. Become a shop steward. Get a contract so when management whines about this is an emergency. We need you to work 16 hours a day because we fired your co workers you can laugh in their faces and tell em then you better hire them back ! All IBM management seems to be good at is taking away from their employees to line their own damn pockets and yet the huddled masses crying foul do not sign up for the union. Buffaloe Bill was able to kill 40 and 50 Buffaloe at a time because he learned if you shoot the ones at the back of the herd the others do not notice. IBM has also learned this. They created rankings to make 10 percent feel worthless every year and so no one would complain when they got rid of the Low Ten. Pretty soon it bacame so commonplace people just accepted that whoever they got rid of was a Low Ten. Now they get rid of anyone they want and the herd never moves. Just keeps chewing the grass that is left and producing Methane. The scariest thing is it seems to be becoming the corporate model for all american companies. Time to move the herd. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 09/9/08: Rumor mill rampant IBM will lay off 500 - 1000 employee in Burlington VT plant in November. Please join Alliance and support fellow coworker and fight fat corporate executive making multi million dollar salary per year. Employee at bottom need job to feed family and raise children. Thank you. -Wong Fu-
Comment 09/9/08: I was RA'd last August after 9 years with IBM as a Infrastructure PM. Went over to ACN and worked until today, when I was informed that I have been laid off. Market seems to be getting tight. If anyone has any tips on jobs out there for an experienced IT PM, please let me know. Thanks Everyone, -Kevin-
Comment 09/9/08: Yeah IBM screws all their employees, why stay? Now with increased medical and no raises, how can you stick around? I'm glad I'm finally out, CELEBRATE! -Finally Free-
Comment 09/9/08: who actually gets to use their earned vacation? -no one-
Comment 09/9/08: To "PigsDon'tFly", 8/26/08: the 20% cut for Tivoli in RTP is being planned. A good friend who happens to be a 2nd line manager candidly admitted that this is to make sure we hit the earnings-per-share number expected by Wall Street. So the stock price will go up and our execs will line their pockets... What happens to IBM's competitiveness and long-term outlook is not their problem! -Anonymous-
Comment 09/8/08: -Older Than Average- IBM will counter it is not an age biased action by cutting the fifth week vacation for older workers: those with over 20 years of service. It only takes one resource who is only 38 years old with 20 years to say it is not age discrimination since age discrimination laws usually only kick in at 40 years of age for a class. This reasoning was a reason the thieves at IBM Armonk were able to orchestrate "the great IBM pension heist of 1999": the forced cash balance conversion. Want to stop from losing your vacation benefit? GET A CONTRACT: GET GOING ON IT NOW. ORGANIZE. UNIONIZE. Before it is too late.. IF you continue to do nada then IBM will do it. -staycationer-
Comment 09/8/08: IBM BTV be ready its not over in the least bit. There is going to be major changes on the way. Get used to this being the normal way of life. All levels of performance are not immune one bit. People are starting to get comfortable. Just remember IBM has shutdown many plants in the past. -no end in sight-
Comment 09/8/08: Yep, I've talked to a SDM on Friday, they confirm they are training India PM's and are looking for work. -Anon-
Comment 09/8/08: As Frank has suggested by his example, as long as we know what Numerati is looking for, we can defeat it. Better than that, we can even make it look stupid. We are, after all, IT professionals, so we understand the mechanisms and the possibilities. -nine edge first-
Comment 09/8/08: Anyone know or have any information if IBM is about to initiate a tsunamai of layoffs (Resource Actions) against the US based IBMGS/ITD Project Managers since it is rumored they are rapidly pushing/training a large group of new Indian and South America PM's? -another IBM serial#-
Comment 09/8/08: Re Numerati -- IBM has a deep history of abetting the use of data mining for social control. Read "IBM and the Holocaust" by Edwin Black. -Dehomag-
Comment 09/8/08: Burlington, VT: An all managers meeting is scheduled for 9/9 at 6:30am, rumor is (the rumor has been around for a few weeks) there is another round of layoffs, 500-800, supplementals and support personnel. -manwithtwokids-
Comment 09/7/08: Exodus2007 - I agree. You shouldn't have any of that stuff on your work PC and that data should be confined to your personal machine. When I get that stuff from elsewhere, I dump it really fast. However, any note or message you send with your work machine that criticises any management decision or our executive leadership, combined with data mining can get you into a very bad situation. It used to be that the sheer volume of such mail was too great for scanning, but now new data mining technologies and much higher powered machines make it not only possible, but feasible. Remember the ESCHELON project which collected, and analyzed signals intelligence from phone, fax, e-mail, computer networks etc. and reported suspicious activity? If the technology is available to do that, it certainly is possible that IBM could monitor virtually every employee communication - except perhaps a chat in the men's toilets. -Frank-
Comment 09/7/08: TO -Frank- I have never used IBM provided laptops for ANY personal use. No emails, Mo instant Messageing, No games, No pictures. I Always assumed no privacy as it was a company owned computer running company licensed software they can and do run whatever they want in the background. My own computer on the other hand has the Union website bookmarked along with yahoo pages. Online photos of gerstner and palmisano I print when I go target shooting . IM and emails and games and porn etc etc and as it is all mine IBM has no say or knowledge of anything I do. No one should assume any degree of privacy on a company owned laptop. For your protection as well as your friends stop any Union organizing and communication on IBM's assets -Exodus2007-
Comment 09/6/08: Re - the stealing of the 5th week of vacation for those who have earned it, IBM must be looking for another class-action lawsuit. The only people who have 5 weeks of vacation are older employees. Any such take away that effects only older employees, could conceivably generate a class action lawsuit. -Older Than Average-
Comment 09/6/08: Exodus - the big problem with Numerati techniques is that employees have zero privacy. That same data-mining capability to optimize the workforce can also be used to identify anyone who attempts to join the union, or says anything negative about the thugs running IBM. or is preparing to leave the company. It can be used to identify"troublemakers" and "dissenters" so they can be (ex)terminated.

The comparisons to Orwell's novel 1984 are very real and extremely onerous. Some ideas regarding how to defeat it -

- Add a paragraph in a tiny, font using white for the color containing a large number of technical verb keywords e.g. architect, lead, drive, sponsor, design, implement and a large number of subject keywords such as Websphere, Domino, java, AJAX, DB2 etc. That would feed "bogus" data into the Numerati engine.

- For stuff you want private - don't use text to communicate it. Use screen shots, images, gifs, jpgs, attachments, etc.

-Most likely, the scans don't scan everything - they go for the low-hanging fruit. Things like sametime chat histories and Domino mail. -Frank-

Comment 09/6/08: I heard that those with 5 weeks vacation may lose one of those weeks. Anyone else hear this? Can the union put ads in our local papers calling for people to join? Now is the time. If it dosen't happen soon it never will! -Loser at EFK-
Alliance reply: Ads are extremely expensive. We have been distributing flyers and mailing information to Fishkill AND Burlington workers. Unfortunately, even with that, the sign ups have not been pouring in. If you want a better deal at IBM, you need to move forward with the union. Sign up today. Mail in form is on the Alliance web site and is confidential.

Comment 09/6/08: Black and Blew -- When I retired a couple of years ago, a geographically nearby manager was assigned the mustering out duty. I gave the laptop to her, along with my IBM ID. BTW, the laptop had already been promised to another employee who contacted me in advance for the startup password. I removed all of my personal stuff and deleted e-mails and most of what I had on a couple of mainframes. Especially useful mainframe stuff I donated to a colleague who understood what to do with it. I did not have a company paid phone line so I don't know the procedure for tying that off. -nine edge first-
Comment 09/5/08: To Black and Blew: If you have a company phone line they will most likely turn if off. They will also probably send you a box to send that laptop back. Send it back completely wiped out and formatted. My manager said to me, don't format it, because somebody else might need it. Well piss on them. Wipe it clean. What to do with your ibm equipment is the least of your worries. Go online now while you can, and print off all the info on your 401k, insurance, pension balance, etc. Make sure you get all your vacation pay and all your MONEY. When you start a new job some place else, you'll wonder why you stayed in this dump for so long. Remember, it's better once you're out of there, so much better you won't believe it. Spend every minute from now on looking for another job and don't do another minute of work for these dirt bags. Take care of number 1. At least you have a little time. Look for your new job on their time. -Ra'd last year-
Comment 09/5/08: To Black-and-Blew: I'm sorry to hear about you being RA'd. That sucks. I left IBM but on my own, not as a result of an RA. But when it comes to being remote and IBM's assets, the rules are the same. No matter how you leave, if you're a remote employee, you'll need to return all IBM assets (laptop, cell phone, pager, Corporate AMEX card (cut up, of course!) to your manager. As a matter of fact, they will WITHHOLD your last paycheck pending receipt of the laptop. Isn't that cute? Yup, they did it to me. My Moron-of-a-former-manager didn't give me the proper shipping paperwork, instructions, forms, whatever, for me to pack up that piece of crap and get it back to him. If your manager isn't talking, go UPLINE and ask HIS/HER boss for information on where to return that asset. They should send you some sort of an airbill to use to affix to the box and then all you should do is call a number of one of the shippers and they will pick it up and give you the receipt (and tracking number). Save that!! If you put in a phone line in your home for business use only, arrange to have that line disconnected effective your last day. And submit your expenses for reimbursement so that you're compensated for when the final phone bill arrives. If you intend to keep your high-speed online service (i.e. cable modem, DSL, whatever), you'll have to pay for that yourself. When I left, I made sure that I put in up to and including the current month for all of my business services (phone & cable modem) so that I wasn't left holding the bill and no way to get reimbursed. Good luck on your job search! Use this time (and your laptop) to hunt for another position! Right now, finding another job should be your main job. Screw Big Blew!! -Mistressofthei5-
Comment 09/5/08: >> They assume someone with a thousand contacts and a hundred emails a day is a great worker. <<
And I guess to expand upon the idea of who is connected, IBM has just released their own version of MySpace or LinkedIn. It's called IBMR - I Build My Reputation. They think this shows IBM is part of the Web 2.0 trend. But this so-called social networking site claims fellow workers can leave feedback about you confidentially and you can recognize peers anonymously. Like anything on an IBM system is really"confidential" and "anonymous".-Anonymous-
Comment 09/4/08: Can anyone tell me how this works? I was RA'd...effective in October. I am a remote employee. What do I do with this 4-year old laptop? Will my phone bill start coming to me or will it be cut off? Boss does not seem to be interested in responding to my questions. Thanks! -Black and Blew-
Comment 09/4/08: The biggest problem with Numerati is they once again inverted the pyramid. They assume someone with a thousand contacts and a hundred emails a day is a great worker. The opposite is true in most cases. Someone reading and responding to that many emails etc is doing NO REAL WORK. They are producing neither revenue or profit and are in fact costing the company money. Unless the persons job is to specificly handle emails in great quantity then they are doing their job. Otherwise they are just producing an Emountain of Epaper that ties up half the companys resources reading and responding and not producing a damn thing. Just like a first line manager. -Exodus2007-
Comment 09/3/08: When I was RA'd I was told by my manager that I was not chosen for any peticular reason, and that it was just a matter of numbers. My former team mates told me later, that in a meeting, she told them that i was chosen because I challenged her, and I was also called "too disgruntled". I challenged her because she was always wrong and had no idea how to be a manager. Somebody who was a programmer for 25 years and now suddenly given a managers job is just not qualified. She was constantly asking other managers how to do everything. In the end, she lied to my face, but it makes no difference now. I have a better job and would never wish that place on anybody. -IG-
Comment 09/3/08: To -Pissed Off- : I know people that hired an attorney when they were RA'd and in the end they were all told the same thing. They will either get you now or get you later. If you get hired back, they may cut you later with no package. Several of my co-workers were told, take the package now, it's not worth the fight. If you got hired back things would never be the same. Do you really want to go to work looking over your shoulder every day? Take the package and find another job. It's better being out of there. -NG_MAN-
Comment 09/2/08: to: -Pissed Off- All of us who were RA'd in a blatant form of age discrimination understand your outrage. However it appears that you have limited experience with the legal system. Employment lawsuits are all about money, they are not about justice. What you are looking for is justice and IBM is looking at money. What you will find out is that your lawyer was right. He was representing your interests rather than IBM. If he wasn't, you should go to the Texas Bar and file a complaint. I could have fought my termination too, and maybe even gotten my job back. However I realized that most benefical settlement was to take the 6 months pay and start a new life. My experience is that if I had sue'd, I probably wouldn't have got as much as IBM gave in settlement and then would have paid legal fees to boot. Litigation like that would have also taken 2 to 3 years. I would have had to respond to depositions and other legal discovery which would have been extremely time consuming. During that time, I would have needed money to live and would be focusing my efforts on a lose/lose legal solution. I do know a little about the law since I spent part of my adult life married to a lawyer. My advice is get over it and move on. Your insight is correct. Your assesment of the situation is clouded. Good Luck! -RA'd Bear-
Comment 09/2/08: BluePigaCookin , "Corporate Snipers" The most accurate description I have heard yet.. An RA'd IBM'er -screwed by joan-
Comment 09/1/08: From the article, it appears that the creator of Numerati at IBM Research bailed! Also, I also know that Rakesh Aggarwal ("the father of data mining") bailed IBM Research as well. Takriti, it turns out months later, masters these market dynamics: He was able to shop his gilded Numerati credentials to several Web companies and banks, and finally leaves IBM in late 2007 for a post as a top mathematician at Goldman Sachs. Work on the modeling project continues apace, says IBM.) -concerned_phd-
Comment 09/1/08: Do we want IBM management run by Numerati? IBM is scanning your ThinkPad, your e-mail, and activities so that management can break down each worker into sets of skills, knowledge, and metrics. There is no more "respect for the individual". (per BusinessWeek 09/08/08): "grunt workers in this hierarchy get far less consideration. They're calculated as commodities. Thier skills are fungible. The company should keep its commodity workers laboring as close as possible to 100% of the time." IBM is not in the commodity business when it comes to products, but it is when it comes to people. Let's not become commodity resources. This "big brother" surveillance is not for your good. Stop the spyware! -Joe Punchclock-
Comment 09/1/08: Update to RA in May 2008: Well folks, I am still waiting to act. I managed to find documents that were in violation of the age discrimination laws relating to me and a contract I was refused, not once but twice. My RDM applied and withdrew my name 3 different times before the slot was filled. The fools put too much detail in the req and hung themselves. This was after my chicken manager RA;ed me and refused to talk to me, except to make statements that he had to back away from. These statements were made during the slashing phone call. I hired an attorney. I told my attorney that re-instatement was not possible. I also printed all the information I could find on the release. He never even looked at the release nor the documentation I took in to support my facts. He just said its good and went on about his business. 4 days prior to my release, I begin to get phone calls from my attorney telling me that IBM is about to offer me my job back (obviously since it was such a cut and dried issue) but "his" recommendation was to sign the release and move on. In his experience that they would find a way to get rid of me later on, without a package. Fast forward to 36 hours (no joke) I am now getting hourly calls from my manager, I have also received 3 different calls from my vice president as well requesting to speak with me, and my emergency contact numbers are ringing as well. In all, I received 19 phone calls before 3pm central. My attorney called to inquire as to "what was going on"? I informed him that the forms clearly stated not to sign them before 6/11/08 (this was the 10th) He stated he would tell IBM legal know what my decision was. Lastly, my retainer with my attorney expired on 6/30/08 (my 41st birthday) sometime after 7/6/08 I begin to get calls from my attorney requesting that I sign another release to drop all action against IBM as the matter was "settled" I did not return his calls, nor did I ever sign the forms. I told that yutz that my job back was not possible due to the noise I was making on the way out the door. He informed me that the EEOC does not look kindly on employees who are offered their job back, refuse it and still move forward with legal action. My gut still tells me that somehow IBM found a way to pay him off. My former manager bugged the snot out of me for about 2 weeks due to paperwork he lost, had confidential information faxed to a friend's house and sends me three different packets for my signature (During exit interview I confirmed he had everything he needed, I had my copies in front of me, he should have too...I guess he used them to mop up a martini or to roll a doobie on later that evening. I checked my account and all funds coming from IBM were in my accounts and accounted for. I took the fedex packages and put them in my closet for safe keeping and never sent a thing back. I am still trying to find out if anyone knows if the release is considered legal in the state of Texas. I have a group of attorneys I am going to speak with, but the groups that I was referred to from the website would not even speak with me. Has anyone who lives in the state of Texas taken the release form and had it reviewed for its validity (according to state law) if you have, I would like to get in contact with you. Oh, and by the way, my old customer re-signed----I am getting requests from former colleagues for my resume to sign directly to account. Would be an easy gig since I know the client, but am I really that stupid? Not completely, this is not the only offer I have, I am just taking the rest of the year off to get to know my family again. I guess its going to depend on this wavier, and its legal standing in the state of Texas. Applying for employment where you are trying to sue is not a skill most managers are looking for. But it makes a perfect exec. -Pissed Off-
Comment 08/30/08: The Numerati story is VERY disturbing. It is 100% Big Brother! I realize IBM can do anything they want at this point, but maybe with a union we would be able to put limits on this sort of thing. Another reason to join the union. -miss understanding-
Comment 08/30/08: Interestingly, one example in the Numerati story involved the discovery that an Indian architect cost less than an American one. Aside from this, I find disconcerting the amount of spying described: e.g. tracking the distribution lists on your e-mails. And drawing conclusions about you based on whether you are included on others' lists or not. Big Brother factorial! -Innumerate-
Comment 08/30/08: To Anonymous: In reference to the link you supplied. Yes there is evidence of the "Numerati" scripts running in the background. I have spoken with a number of other employees who are all complaining about their laptops being bogged down over the last couple of months. There was a project I had heard of, and I am sorry I cannot remember the name of it, several months ago, where they are using it on the skills database to find the "right" skill for special projects. I cannot understand why more people are not upset about this?! If I find out what the executable is I will remove it from my laptop. IBM is going to market these tools for other businesses. This will sure cut back on communication between employees...seems like another moronic management tool to me. I spend most of my day on are they going to track that? -just1waiting-
Comment 08/29/08: To: KickedEnough, it's not hard at all to fathom why the company continues to play sniper with it's employees. Palmissano made a public commitment and he fully intends on keeping it at all costs.

And remember, now with global growth slowing, and the US dollar appreciating, I expect more corporate snipers to be roaming the US ibm sites -BluePigaCookin-
Comment 08/29/08: While I personally do not have any skin in the game with regard to the GEODIS outsourcing, I have spoken with someone who has a ringside seat to the whole thing by virtue of the fact that they work in a department in the Pok warehouse that was directly affected. The consensus of opinion in the warehouse is that the people who are going to GEODIS are the lucky ones. You read that right. Those who will not be going to GEODIS have been told they will be given a job in Pok manufacturing. A job in manufacturing?? That's NOT good. How long does anyone think it will be before that job disappears? -Da Catboid-
Comment 08/29/08: Anybody see any evidence of this in use? -Anonymous-

Comment 08/28/08: It's hard to fathom why IBM's STG division (which reported revenues of over $9.4 billion for first half 2008 and also reported that gross profits were up over $200 million for first half 2008 vs first half 2007) is considering more layoffs for it's Burlington VT semi-conductor plant. But I guess without a union to represent us at board meetings, we will never know the real reason. Other than guessing corporate greed. I have instructed those IBMer's who have not joined the union as of yet, to stop complaining about what has been happening to them over the last 10 years. You can get kicked in the teeth only so many times before you must fight back and protect yourself. These days, being employed at IBM without a union to represent and protect us, is like entering a boxing ring with your hands tied behind your back. Join the union, stand up and protect yourself, or else continue to get a sharp stick in the eye and be happy about it! -KickedEnough-
Comment 08/27/08: Piss on Jeff Miller, Owen Cropper, Nicole Williford, Helene Yagoda, and Collins-Smee. As one of Miller's cronies once said (before Miller cast him off), "everybody gets whats coming to them", and this clan of bozo's will get theirs for seven generations. -Disgusted-
Comment 08/27/08: I was RA'd on 8/11, last day is 9/10. Got the package, and will take the pension (58 with 30 years 4 mos). I knew it was coming, like many others, I was "managed" out of the business with a phony appraisal that was pre-ordained at contest time. My first, second and third reactions were relief, relief and relief :-) I don't have enough saved to retire (who does?), but, what the heck. Being closer to Omega, gives one the wisdom and experience to know that anything is possible. Adios IBM. Now, if I can figure out a way to turn the Watson's grave spinning into perpetual motion, I'd really have it made!! -AphaOmega-
Comment 08/26/08: To Silence: That's the problem with lurkers on this site. They sit silent until it happens to them, then it's rah rah union lets go. A day late and a dollar short. People need to get off their silent duffs and take a stand before there is nothing left. -NG_MAN-
Comment 08/26/08: OK folks, lets get some specifics. Regarding the RTP development cuts reported below, which brand is this for? Tivoli, Rational, Websphere or Lotus? I've confirmed a 20% haircut is coming for Tivoli. Does anyone have any specifics for the Rational, Websphere or Lotus brands? -PigsDon'tFly-
Comment 08/26/08: Regarding procedures for Argentines: If I was asked to do this, I would make them totally, totally detailed so that it takes plenty of time to get them done. If this was not acceptable to management, then I would be forced to leave room for the readers to phone me whenever the going got tough. -Slow Writer-
Comment 08/26/08: The following was sent, anonymously, to Alliance:
"Team, Today we are taking a big step forward. The actions we are taking are in line with our continuous effort to be best of breed in everything we do. We are announcing a partnership with a company called GEODIS. GEODIS will provide services in our warehouse operations. To be specific, they will assume responsibility for receiving, stocking, shipping, Fkit, packaging, shipgroups and CPC operations. GEODIS specializes in these type of operations and is a leader in this industry. They are already performing most of these operations for our Dublin and Montpellier plants and are very familiar with the highend Server business. Many of the people currently working in these areas will transition into new roles within our organization. However, several others will be asked to keep their current roles and transition from IBM to GEODIS. The management team will be meeting with all those effected. We have provided a dept meeting communication package to all managers to share with their teams.I understand that any action which moves IBM jobs to another company can be very unsettling. I want you to know that we did not come to this decision lightly. We have been studying the pros and cons of doing this for almost a year. I am convinced this is the right thing to do in order to help us improve our efficiency, increase our overall focus on Client Satisfaction and ultimately help preserve our future. I am sure many of you will have questions so please take the time to attend the department meeting with your manager. The transition will start almost immediately so I ask that each of you work with your manager to understand your role in making this a win / win partnership with GEODIS. Jim
Jim King
Integrated supply Chain
Poughkeepsie Plant Manager
Poughkeepsie, N.Y.
Phone: 845-433-6565"

Comment 08/26/08: To those being forced to train your replacements. While you will teach them everything THEY know, don't teach them everything YOU know. Let management handle the fall out. If there is no pain, they will accelerate the transition. If there are problems, they will slow the transition. -Anonymous-
Comment 08/26/08: Anon-What depts are training the Argentines? -DeadTech-
Comment 08/25/08: To -NG_MAN- Don't put salt into the injury. Sometimes silence is golden. A grown-up person knows when to keep his mouth shut! -Silence-
Comment 08/25/08: More layoffs coming at Burlington plant. IBM history in Vermont. Get out now before IBM lay you off. Site numbers at all time low. Start polishing resume. Consider joining Alliance. At least you have voice in this unfair practice to employee. -Wong Fu-
Comment 08/25/08: We have been challenged with a 20% cut in Development (RTP, NC), to be balanced with investments in China or other low-cost countries. Job cuts are probably looming for the 4th quarter of 2008. Happy holidays from IBM. -Anonymous-
Comment 08/25/08: Exactly -I'mBeingMissLed- , the time to put a union in place is long before the company mistreats and layoffs happen. There is nothing new about layoffs at this place. So many people sit and watch and think it won't happen to them. Once it happens, hey it's time for a union. If your house burns down and then you get insurance, it won't help you. If you get laid off and then want a union, that won't help you either. -NG_MAN-
Comment 08/24/08: Found out the other day that several of my buddies and 10+ other IBMer's jobs are being sent to Argentina. They are to write detailed "procedures" on their jobs, train the Argentine replacements by phone and "find a new job" by some soft date before year end... When they asked about serverance packages they could not get firm answer/specifications from mgmt. (Big shock I know...) I just sent in my dues to renew with the Alliance for 3rd yr. Any of you casually reading this should remember .... "If we do not hang together we will surely hang separately" -Anon-
Comment 08/23/08: This is a response to the Alliance Response on July 16: "Alliance reply: We are sorry we didn't answer the question; but as a member you know that due to lack of members and budget issues we have had to cut staff and hours. We simply don't always have the time to be investigating everything. We have some pretty smart members and IBMers that can answer questions here. Our purpose was to make the point; that IBM employees should not rely on their state labor law to insure their pay when they are RA'd. Please see the post below this, for our entire answer." Alliance, did you have to lay off staff, due to lack of revenue? Just like any other business? How can Alliance help me or any other IBM'er if they cant maintain their own staff. Geeze, cut staff and cut hours! Sounds familiar.
Alliance reply: The answer is simple: the more dues paying members, the more we can do.
Are you a member, yet?

Comment 08/22/08: -Has been reduced- Of course the standby time being reduced to nada is illegal; but unless folks in IBM don't try to do something about it and challenge it, IBM will get away with it! Then turn your pager off and say you were in a "dead zone" if you are paged and join the Alliance! -anonymous-
Comment 08/22/08: To Anynomous, I don't think NG is questioning your joining the union; but they are questioning your timing. I have to agree with them that it's better to have the insurance before the house burns down. -I'mBeingMissLed-
Comment 08/22/08: NG_MAN...your getting up my butt because I join the union??? You bash others because they don't join the union? If you are the type of person I have to deal with by being in the union, maybe I shouldn't have joined. Thank you for your support, jerk-wad!!!! -anonymous-
Comment 08/21/08: Just heard some new news out here, new round of layoffs coming including opps managers, operators, and schedulers. -Short timer-
Comment 08/21/08: My salary was cut by 15% and I was put into a no-exempt level. My job requires me to be on stand by… Now I am being told I still need to carry my pager, but will only get paid if I get called. Basically I have to be on call 24/7 without getting the proper compensation.(Stand by pay) This is illegal, but if I say something my job will be sent to India quicker than I can say ___________! -Has been reduced-
Comment 08/21/08: Your wife gets the boot and now your're pro union? Have you been reading what has been going on for years? The time to join up and make a difference is long before big blow does these things, not just when they finally happen to you. Without a union you are all grunts standing in line for your turn to go. -NG_MAN-
Comment 08/21/08: I know of other ITD employees (in the Collins-Smee organization) that have been given 30 days to find a job. Their jobs being outsourced to lower salaried employees (I believe in Boulder, Brazil and Argentina). There is the standard package..up to six months pays, medical coverage and education money. This current layoff effected about 110 people. Apparently, another layoff in this group will happen later this year. I know this for a fact because my wife is one of those who is losing her job. In the package my wife received was a cover letter from Collins-Smee. After reading that piece of crap I was so pissed off I immediately joined the union. -Anonymous-
Comment 08/20/08: John Ditoro is planning another lay off at the Burlington Vermont plant. My source of information is my former 2nd level manager. This site really sucks. Long term plan is to pull out of the main site and sell it. Williston will follow next. IBM has no interest in Vermont. I hate my job and hate IBM. Sam Palmacrapo can go to hell. Please join the Alliance and help turn this injustice against the Vermont IBMers around. -Joe B-
Comment 08/20/08: ITD got me on the 12th, effective in Oct. -black and blew-
Comment 08/19/08: ITD cut came for me on the 11th. No warning. They make it sound like an honor to get permanately laid off. -Anonymous-
Comment 08/19/08: The Year 2010 for the IBM in USA. In order to get to "IBM's blueprint for revenue and profit growth" they are escalating cost cuts (now USA employees salaries are being cut) and once there is no more to cut past the bone the blueprint will be brought to reality. If your still around in IBM in the USA by that date your one of the select chosen few. You'll be an IBM survivor for all it is worth (maybe not for much though). -Anonymous-
Comment 08/18/08: Thank you for that made a lot of sense....something maybe you want to consider making more apparent, as just from talking, this is one of the questions I have heard come up. Good points are made, I will be sure to pass them on. -Anonymous-
Comment 08/17/08: Pretty much everyone I have spoke to, is of the opinion that IBM BTV's days are numbered as far as the silicon manufacturing is concerned. Wouldnt a move to vote on a union just speed that up? If IBM has designs on leaving any will a union help? -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: It is better to have union representation during a plant closing, than having no representation. A union contract would stipulate the amount of severence (IBM does not have to give you severence), other employee assistance, and a succesor clause (the contract goes to a new employer if plant is sold). The union can also work out alternatives to plant closings. A union can also look into if the closing is justified. Without a union or a contract the situation and result are determined by IBM corporate management alone. Better to have the power of a union on your side.
Comment 08/17/08: Talked with a friend this weekend and Nichole Williford told one of her managers that he should start looking for another job. Whatever little operations monitoring and production control work is left behind (targeted for GDF's in Fishkill/Boulder) will gradually be sent to India within 1-2 years and the 100% of all operations will be gone. Accounts which have gov't regulations will stay in the US but will be transitioned to a contract vendor in the US without any IBM employee support. -Buckleup-
Comment 08/17/08: Our 1st line mgr has told us to shine our resumes and keep them up to date. Re-orgs in IGS are going to be happening in October, followed by layoffs. More jobs will go off-shore, and US employees will be out of a job for Christmas. Happy Holidays from IBM. -tai mai shue-
Comment 08/15/08: Spent some time today, here in BTV, asking some of my sources about the rumors of another big layoff. The conclusion is there will be another one, about 300 people, in November. Happy Holidays from IBM ... and good luck paying for your heating fuel this year. -Hmmm-
Comment 08/15/08: Programmers at IBM Endicott NY are being told, they will need to apply for new jobs soon. Some managers feel that, IBM will be done with them soon and will let them go. -oldibmgone-
Comment 08/14/08: I heard that 21 jobs in support of Problem & Change are being sent to Argentina within the next few months. This is in addition to more than 100 jobs so far that have already been eliminated this year. When is it going to end? The US team is hyping up these new US based GDF's (Fishkill/Boulder) but its only a ploy to keep some of the US resources temporarily calmed as more jobs are sent off shore. -TIRED-
Comment 08/14/08: Can someone tell me who the source(s) are for the IBM BTV news ... the news of gloom and doom? I don't want names but what positions do the sources hold? Mgmt? -Sources-
Comment 08/14/08: Heard today that Jeff Miller (Operations Director), announced to his mangers (Nichole and Helene) that he plans to close the Southbury and Poughkeepise command centers by early next year, if not sooner. This includes mainframe, iseries, distributed and ebus. Jeff then plans to proceed to quickly close all operations in Lexington and RTP. He has already moved close to 700 jobs to Brazil, India and other locations outside of the US. He has now told Nichole that this number is falling short of Joann Colin-Smee’s target and he has told his managers that 70 more jobs will need to be sent global by year end. UNREAL! -Buckleup-
Comment 08/14/08: UNION - It's great to see the authorization forms on your homepage. Folks sign up. It's painless and easy. Let's get the ball rolling. Tell everyone you can! If you're worried about passing out big flyers, print out index card sized ones with the union info. It's easier to give them to people, and not so conspicuous. -miss understanding-
Alliance reply: Thanks for commenting on the authorization form on our front page. For now, typing in your information, and then printing, signing, and mailing the form to us; is the quickest way to increase our numbers toward a vote. Remember: You must SIGN and date the form before you mail it . You are absolutely right! We CAN DO it!!
Comment 08/14/08: This fall there will be signifigant changes at IBM Burlington. To all of those who feel immune from any cut think again, this one is going to show what Corporate wants to do with BTV. Hopefully Vermont is ready for this. -Big Cuts-
Comment 08/14/08: In response to -Anti-Blue-, os your source reliable? 700? It will most certainly have a negative impact to the BTV area. -Will it ever end-
Comment 08/13/08: It must really be a positive work place as workers do nothing to improve it. I am reminded of Tennessee Ernie Ford's song "16 Tons". "I owe my soul to the company store". I guess it may well have to reach that point of misery in IBM before the union takes hold. It is sad to see people used and abused in this manner and do nothing about it. Stockholm Syndrome maybe? Whatever the reason it is indeed a sad day in America. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 08/13/08: We heard that the state of Vermont has received notice that the microelectronics division is going to have a significant resource action in October in Vermont. We are hearing numbers of 700 people-indirects and poor performing production workers. The support groups are going to take the bulk of the resource action. We are hearing end of October? Anyone else hearing this? -Anti-Blue-
Comment 08/12/08: IBM GBS is cutting back on costs - anything to make the bottom line while creating such a positive work environment.
3Q spending (POs/Bond/Education/Travel (T&L) that is not paid for by the commercial customer is frozen.
Thanks Awards
Invention/Disclosure Awards
Mobility expenses within GBS mobility guidelines spending levels
Travel as part of a revenue generating commercial contract
ALL Education
Certification and industry institution fees
All travel that is not commercial customer paid
All POs, Bond and Amex purchases - including SW, books, periodicals,
travel, education, industry memberships (i.e. PMI, etc.), gifts,
luncheons, WS/PC peripherals & parts, any BOND purchases charged to AS departments, and Supplies -Anonymous-

Comment 08/12/08: Anonymous: "From my point of view, I think Labor Unions are on the precipice of recovery."
You're making a courageous prediction. another poster on this list noted that verizon got an 11% pay raise but didn't note that new workers lost health care after retirement and I expect that the new hires would support an end to retiree health care, after their numbers swell, if an olive branch was held out like a pay increase. So make sure you keep your eyes and mind open to the possible! -smitty-

Comment 08/12/08: After reading Lionhearts post it occurred to me speculatively, that there’s an impending doomsday in America and IBM knows this. This is why they want as many American Employees to be contractors. So when the day comes, they can be let go "On Demand". -Anonymous-
Comment 08/12/08: I was milling around PBS archives. Here is 15 min news segment from June, on the Labor Unions including how they have been on declined since 1954. Where in 1954 1 in 3 workers where in a union compared to 2007 where 1 in 8 were. From my point of view, I think Labor Unions are on the precipice of recovery. -Anonymous-
Comment 08/11/08: I'm with GTS in CA, last yr my mgr had 45 fulltimers and 5 contractors, I notice last week there was only 16 fulltimers and about 35 contractors, i believe SRA's has been going on without our knowlege.. -Lionheart-
Comment 08/11/08: If there was ever a case for unionizing IBM, look no farther than Fox News Online. Verizon just got a new contract and a strike was averted. Take a look at this excerpt from Fox News. "Job security and health care were among the main points of contention. They were negotiated in 2003, after a threatened strike was averted when federal mediators joined the talks. That settlement was for a five-year contract. The proposed new contract applies to workers in 10 northeastern and mid-Atlantic states and Washington, D.C., 50,000 of them CWA members and 15,000 in the IBEW. IBEW president Ed Hill said the talks "met our goals to protect the retirees who helped to build this company and ... ensure future jobs for union members." Oh, and did I mention there was a 10.5% wage increase too? Wake up people!! -DA Catboid-
Comment 08/10/08: With full recognition of the serious degradation of my work environment during the LEAN times I have observed a very abrupt and unilateral change in the relationship with my manager. What was a reasonably cordial and functional relationship (given the dysfunction of the LEAN process) has suddenly changed into a pattern of hostility and antagonism. I can only assume that I have just been placed on the next RA list and am now being "stimulated" to leave on my own accord sans any severance package. I am determined to stay put until I am"properly" RA'ed with a reasonable compensatory severance package. My question to the forum is, how long should I expect this period of"stimulation" to last? Can I expect to be degraded and humiliated for a couple of weeks or will this go on for months or longer? In other words, how long do they attempt to stimulate you to leave on your own before they relent and tell you to go with a severance package. Emotionally I'd prefer to take the bastards to court as a court judgment in my favor would be much more satisfying but practically speaking I'll take a severance package and move on, never to look back. Thanks in advance for any advice and/or wisdom from those that have "gone" before me. -married_to_ibm_but_a_divorce_is_pending-
Comment 08/10/08: First another pay cut (or is IBM calling it another "pay remix") for the 3500 resources (IBM doesn't refer to us as employees anymore) in Essex Jct/Williston VT and East Fishkill/Poughkeepsie NY and secondly will come repeated RA's. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS! YOU CAN. Join in solidarity and unionize NOW. -IBMUnionNeeded-
Comment 08/07/08: Silent Resource Actions (SRAs) are happening all over the place in IGS. They've been happening since February in GTS on a weekly basis.Too many senior people they first threaten a performance based MIS then they "turn nice" and give an SRA "if you just leave quietly". -SRA Nab-
Comment 08/06/08: WellPoint SA's are told to basically hand over your jobs to indians. I will not. let them figure it out like we did. it would be interesting to see how the customer reacts to a sev1 not being addresses...the NOC cannot locate benjisjalsy alajsuashy in bangalore on his cell...and when they finally reach someone...who can understand what the heck he is talking about? -Indian_Giver-
Comment 08/06/08: Think it can't happen again, then read this: IBM to cut pay for some workers -

Comment 08/06/08: Just about last week I learned several IBM employees from STG in Poughkeepsie were RA'ed and they received a 6-month "buy out". This type of RA is not publicily known to us and media because it is known as "Silent Resource Actions" (SRA). SRA has been ongoing for the past few years; that is, they eliminated a small number of employees from time to time. Is this union aware of it? -Shocked in Pok-
Comment 08/06/08: Aws pay cut in manufacturing -SamP-
Comment 08/05/08: Just about last week I learned several IBM employees from STG in Poughkeepsie were RA'ed and they received a 6-month "buy out". This type of RA is not publicily known to us and media because it is known as "Silent Resource Actions" (SRA). SRA has been ongoing for the past few years; that is, they eliminated a small number of employees from time to time. Is this union aware of it? -Shocked in Pok-
Comment 08/04/08: You all keep doing the same thing and expecting things to change at IBM. It's the definition of insanity. Come to your senses, read Thom Hartmann's "Screwed," and unionize! -WakeUpCall-
Comment 08/04/08: Amex relation with IBM are declining since they've been outsourcing work to Infosys and others. Dev work went there a while ago and more will in turn. -JM-
Comment 08/03/08: To: A Nony Mouse - are the cuts IBMers or contractors and which area is affected by the 14? Thanks. -A curious mouse-
Comment 08/03/08: More cuts planned at Wellpoint, offshoring in full swing, 14 Indians coming on board, 8 US will be cut. -A Nony Mouse-
Comment 07/31/08: If it is a fact that IBM has lost the Ameriprise account this is huge news. Losing the Ameriprise account will definitely adversely impact the IBM brand and hurt the value of the stock. There are close ties between the IBM BOD and the leadership of AMEX and AMP. A loss of this account means that even the close executive relationships couldn't fix the problem. There are huge IBM market credibility problems if they lost the Amerprise account. Is the IGS rot finally coming to the surface? -IBMAnalyst-
Comment 07/30/08: To geniricibmer. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I got this directly from someone supporting the account. It is a fact. -UnionNOW-
Comment 07/30/08: To -genericibmer- I have heard the same rumor. That Ameriprise is pulling the account from ibm. I don't like the spreading of false rumors either, but there are too many indications coming from folks I know in PM and mgmt that this is the case. Don't shoot the msgr for the msg. -Almost too late-
Comment 07/29/08: UnionNOW; bull! I have many friends inside Ameriprise. I would have heard. Spreading false info is not good for the soul. -genericibmer-
Comment 07/29/08: Just found out that IBM lost its contract with Ameriprise. More jobs losses to come I'm sure. -UnionNOW-
Comment 07/27/08: Someone was kind enough to post about the 60 day WARN labor code. Does this apply even if employees are spread across various locations throughout the US? Thanks! -WARN me now!-
Alliance Reply: The WARN act
or Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act is a federal labor law. There are variations state to state that may alter how it is applied, ie., General Provisions of the Federal and California WARN Laws
Your question is not so easy to answer; regarding IBM employees say, in one IBM division, that are scattered over several different states.
Our experience tells us that IBM has, generally, been able to get around the WARN act using a mix of strategies; which include reorganizing functions, divisions, depts. prior to a planned layoff. IBM has an arsenal of strategies that help them avoid breaking specific labor laws in most IBM US locations. There have been times; however, when they succumb to the law and decide to let hundreds lose their jobs simultaneously, after invoking the 60 day 'warning'. For the employees sake, this kind of 'chess game' can be avoided by having a union contract that specifys how the process shall work in the event of an inevitable layoff. BTW.. The term layoff has been abused by IBM and other non-union companies for years. Layoff basically means that you are cut loose for a period of time; and when things get better for the company, they give you back your job. IBM rarely does this, if at all.
Comment 07/27/08: This article, in the Albany Times Union, gives perspective on some of the incentives given to IBM. The public needs to be kept aware of how their taxpayer funds are being (mis) used. -Finite-
Comment 07/27/08: I would luv to give Sam and the rest of the "Armonk elite": BOHICA! The only way we can do it is build a stronger Alliance and make them bargain in good faith. -anonymous-
Comment 07/26/08: I just read a book that has an interesting chapter on the first layoffs at IBM - interesting insight on how decaying leadership at the top so often translates into job cuts for you and me. Check it out at: -IBM Slave-
Comment 07/25/08: Actually, I was just trying to be discreet... -Sage-
Comment 07/23/08: To Sage: You got the acronym correct. You're just a wee bit off on the meaning; more like, "bend over so IBM can shove it up your @$$ again". please excuse my french. -*** BOHICA ***-
Comment 07/23/08: BOHICA means "Bend Over, Here it Comes Again" means that something has been dropped on the floor, and you will need to bend over to pick it up (or something like that) -Sage-
Comment 07/22/08: >> what does 'bohica' mean? When in doubt, use Google. You'll find your answer in the first entry returned. Your second choice should be Wikipedia. -Anonymous-
Comment 07/21/08: To: Bill W. , your comments do not dignify a response. Sounds like you're phishing to me and I won't be your bait. I'm so f'n happy you're happy!. -*** BOHICA ***-
Comment 07/21/08: So far the only 2 week severance I've received was a paycheck for $66...HR/Payroll claims it was sent out the 13th, Sunday. Manager hasn't responded to any messages etc. Glad they sleep at night. -IrritatedXIBMer-
Comment 07/21/08: IBM Slave -- I think it is healthy to hear a contrary point of view. It gives you an opportunity to rejustify your position using sound argument. This is what must be done to attract union members; and what must be done to persuade management and perhaps the courts.-Sharecropper-
Comment 07/19/08: Bill W. - If you don't need or want a union, then why are you visiting this website? Seems strange that someone who feels there is no need for a union would waste their valuable time reading the union website. It's even stranger that they would bother posting to it (unless they were a management spy/shill). -IBM Slave-
Comment 07/18/08: There was a resource action in SWG and my last day was 07/17. According to the letter I was given it affected about 150 people across the US. I was given 30 days to find an internal job. What a joke... In spite of the fact that I have 20 years of experience in IT and IBM is whining about losing people with z skills they sure are doing nothing to retain us. I was told on more than one occasion by hiring managers:
1. There is a hiring freeze in this division (thats why theres a resource action).
2. I cannot hire outside of my division.
3. We are being told to hire new grads and co-ops.
...And this is the most insulting... A manager I talked to was told . "look in South America or India first because they are 1/3 to 2/3 cheaper than their US counterparts". Yea!!! What a company! -Anonymous IT Specialist-

Comment 07/18/08: Well my days of the "IBM connection" have finally come to an end. I was one of the 400+ SSR's outsourced to Qualxserv in '06. My skill set is vast but I was originally 'selected" for Qualxserv because I was our group's guru on small printers. I did this at Qualxserv along with PC's, Laptops, Dell, Appple, Sony, &Canon but never was allowed to receive Dell server training despite over ten years' server experience at IBM. I was told Dell only allocates a certain # of server tech to Qualxserv so there I was with over 25 years' experience running around throwing rollers in customers printers. Now with the IBM/Ricoh deal the printer contract went away (around 25% of Qualxserv's business) IBM wanted to pay per call and not per incident, some of these junk printers require 4 calls so Qualxserv told IBM where to go. There were layoffs this week and at age 60 I found myself out on the street --- for two days!!!!! I start soon as a server tech for a smaller company who was glad to get my skillset and provide me with Dell training and gave me a $20k raise. Thank you IBM for pulling the contract and thank you Qualxserv for laying me off. Some people there haven't had raises for 8 years. There are jobs out there, get on websites and search. I'm glad to find out my real worth and a company who appreciates a mature tech with a work ethic. Sign me "Glad to be away from Big Blue. -Anonymous-
Comment 07/18/08: what does 'bohica' mean? -Bill W.-
Comment 07/18/08: Comment 07/18/08: Read the Numbers Folks! Get OFF YOUR @$$ and JOIN the UNION !!! I saw that IBM profits are up. I'm happy with the raise I got this year and I am happy that IBM is increasing profitability I'd rather see IBM posting profits than losses. I don't need a union. -Bill W.-
Comment 07/18/08: I originally posted the comment about getting paid personal choice holidays in California. I'm not sure which statute it is, I believe now its based more on lawsuits, that deemed treating personal choice holidays as vacation. When I was laid off I showed my manager this link and afterwards I was also paid for my personal choice holidays on my final check. (I am not sure if this internal link is still good- IBM Internal link), Which states in the second paragraph: "You will also be paid for all unused personal choice holidays for the current year." Vacation paid to you at departure from IBM, if you are a California employee, will be based on your current annual base salary. For California employees on commission or incentive plans, payment is based on salary equivalent. Vacation pay does not include extra compensation payments such as shift premiums, additional compensation, or commission payments. Note: Effective June 17, 1996, vacation cash-out will be calculated on current annual base salary plus Performance Bonus. You will also be paid for all unused personal choice holidays for the current year. These will be paid at the same rate as vacation days. This also includes employees who go on a leave of absence and return from a leave of absence in a different plan year. Any cash payment that you receive for vacation is not considered retirement-eligible compensation for calculation of pension or vested rights. All vacation pay is subject to tax withholding. Vacation taken before it is earned is considered a salary advance. If you separate from IBM before you earn the vacation you have taken, IBM will seek the value of the unearned days. I tried to find out more on the internet, this is what I could find thus far. In a IBM Public PDF document,, question 47 talks about personal choice holidays during one's departure. It states: "You will not be paid for any personal choice holidays which you have not used." However it also states: "more specific vacation payout rules may apply to employees working in California." So I may have misrepresented that it’s in California Law; but based on this information and what I was paid, I honestly believe folks in California are entitled to this. -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: We appreciate your investigation and effort to determine what the actual law or policy is. We are always glad to get information from IBM'ers that comes from their effort to understand the truth about IBM's methods of avoiding fair treatment of their employees. Thank you for clearing that up. One point we are still making is, that all the effort you went through to determine what was entitled to you; would not have been necessary, if you had a union contract in place with specifics regarding holiday pay, sick pay, vacation pay, overtime pay, medical benefits and pension benefits. Even though California IBM employees may have a better chance of getting unused personal holidays, and unused vacation; other states in the US do not operate the same. Again, If there was a union contract in place, it wouldn't matter what state your IBM location was in.
Comment 07/18/08: Read the Numbers Folks! Get OFF YOUR @$$ and JOIN the UNION !!!
"We saw good results across all geographies, with our European IOTs growing at 20 percent, our Asian IOTs up 16 percent and the Americas up 8 percent. In the tough U.S. economy we grew 5 percent. Clients in emerging markets are continuing to invest in projects that help drive value in areas that include public sector, banking, and telecommunications. Our strategy of investing in emerging economies continues to pay dividends as these developing nations build out their infrastructures. Revenue from countries in our new Growth Markets organization grew 21 percent, representing 18 percent of IBM's geographic revenue. India grew 35 percent, and Brazil grew 40 percent. IBM has an extraordinary opportunity to help these emerging markets grow and succeed." -*** BOHICA ***-

Comment 07/18/08: Why do you CONTINUE to want to work for a company, that doesn't care about you anymore? The good ole' days at IBM are long gone and to never return. -Joe-
Comment 07/17/08: sby_willie: Of course I don't think IBM will recall those laid off! To secure the NY deal, perhaps IBM implied they'd be laying off a lot of NY workers and/or moving corporate HQ, neither of which NY State wants. If you've been to upstate NY (the area that stands to benefit most from the announcement), you know that the area desperately needs revitalization. Any kind of local hiring, particularly higher paid wokers, will help the local economy immensely. -Finite-
Comment 07/16/08: To -Finite- You think anyone who might have lost their job recently in East Fishkill will be recalled under this deal? I doubt it. And I really doubt NY state really has a clue of what they are doing here. If they have to commit millions of taxpayer money (with the usual budget problems NY state usually has) then that spells trouble. Clearly a desperate attempt by NY state at corporate welfare practices. Even though the former governor (Spitzer) had his foibles he would never have agreed to this deal IMHO. -sby_willie-
Comment 07/16/08: I'm a member and I'm a little upset by your comment, that says , Alliance reply: Thank you for this information. Where in this statute does it say "also pay for un-used holidays, vacations, and unused personal holiday"? This is the question that needs to be answered. And, if not in this statute, what one? Why aren't you investing this for us instead of relying on people on this board? -member-
Alliance reply: We are sorry we didn't answer the question; but as a member you know that due to lack of members and budget issues we have had to cut staff and hours. We simply don't always have the time to be investigating everything. We have some pretty smart members and IBMers that can answer questions here. Our purpose was to make the point; that IBM employees should not rely on their state labor law to insure their pay when they are RA'd. Please see the post below this, for our entire answer.

Comment 07/16/08:
CA Labor Code 201 states that all accrued unused vacation time must be paid at the time of termination. I don't see anything in there about holidays, sick days or PC days. I believe that CA employees are entitled to vacation pay only. -CA Labor Code-

Alliance reply: Thank you for this information. The next challenge is to determine what other states in the USA , have the same or similar law. Our point is this: Without a union contract, even the California IBM employees do NOT get Personal Choice pay, Sick pay, or Holiday pay upon being RA'd. One of the previous posts posed misinformation about this. Don't depend on any state labor law to save your job or get you fair treatment, if you are being RA'd and are an AT WILL EMPLOYEE. We stand by our previous statements: Organize. Get your co-workers to organize others. It is the only option for all of you; other than leaving your job; which is what IBM hopes that you do. Please contact us for more information. Contact Us
Comment 07/16/08: This link describes the labor code regarding mass layoffs and CA employees:
I imagine that IBM will try to get around it, but every CA IBMer that is RA'd should probably contact the labor board or an employment attorney if their last check doesn't contain the extra month's salary. -CA WARN law-

Alliance reply: Thank you for this information. Where in this statute does it say "also pay for un-used holidays, vacations, and unused personal holiday"? This is the question that needs to be answered. And, if not in this statute, what one?
Comment 07/16/08: To Aug 2005: I believe that you are right. When we (CA WLP employees) were given 30 day notice that we were moving to IBM, our last check contained an extra 2 months pay, albeit taxed at a very high rate because of the bracket change. I guess they could have saved themselves the money and just notified us 60 days prior, but it didn't happen. So, with that being said, how do we make sure we get that extra month's pay from IBM when we are RAd if we live in CA? Do we go to the labor board? Thanks. -Former Wellpoint Employee-
Comment 07/16/08: The other question I haven't seen relative to the so-called "no layoffs in NY" promise is "for how long?" It would also be nice if those laid off (or was that "fired") were given first consideration for new jobs...whether at the same location or elsewhere. -anonymous-
Comment 07/15/08: Finite: There were some layoffs in Fishkill/Poughkeepsie area in June, just a few, but not as much by a long shot suffered in Essex Junction/Williston (VT). One layoff is too much at any IBM site. Let's not rely on state government agreements and corporate welfare grant funds to make an attempt to save our jobs: let's get our own agreement with IBM: a union contract!!! -anonymous-
Comment 07/15/08: RA May: ...and a max. of 26 weeks or was it just 13 max.? -anonymous-
Comment 07/15/08: To -GoISS- I can vouch for us all being told that our time at ISS would be carried over to IBM. The thing I remember most, though, is how wonderful the acquisition was going to be for ISS, because we would now have the "vast resources of IBM" at our disposal. And they were going to be adding a lot of new people. The thing they didn't mention was that these people were going to all be in IBM India. I know a lot of people are actively transferring their knowledge to the folks in India, and with the recent layoffs and reorgs the handwriting is on the wall -- I know a lot of people are looking. At least the acquisition was profitable for Tom and Chris. Good luck to the rest of you! -X-ISS'r-
Comment 07/15/08: About California law for RA: It could be California law (just don't know the exact statute) that IBM is required to notify RA employees 2 months prior to the effective date, also pay for un-used holidays, vacations, and unused personal holiday. I was RA in 8/05 and I got all that. BTW, at east coast IBM locations, RA employees got only 30 days notification and no unused holiday payment. California law protects RA employees better than Alliance's rhetorics. -Aug_2005-
Alliance reply: No rhetoric here...we're still waiting. Please cite or reference the statute that requires this.

Comment 07/15/08: Thanks for the response RA May. I heard that it was 2 weeks for each year of service which is the same as 1 week for every 6 months. Still very sorry to hear about this. :-( Did your health benefits get extended for 3 months as part of the package? I read that they were doing this last year. I'm looking into cheaper alternatives to Cobra. Thanks again! -RA soon-
Comment 07/15/08: here is a positive announcement...hope it gets posted IBM to invest $1.5 billion in New York; add 1,000 hi-tech jobs -curious-
Comment 07/15/08: To -RA just around the corner- I received 1 week for every 6 months with big blew. Should we receive 2 weeks for every 6 months? -RA May-
Comment 07/15/08: Fishkill jobs saved? "The agreement to be announced today also will maintain 6,600 existing IBM jobs in East Fishkill, even as the company eliminates jobs elsewhere." Earlier rumors on this board said there would be June layoffs in Fishkill. Did this ever come to fruition? -Finite-
Comment 07/14/08: To anonymous - I'm not sure sure California law requires an employer to pay for unsued holiday time. Earned Vacation time yes, holiday time - no. -miss understanding-
Comment 07/14/08: For those that were outsourced to IBM in the past couple of years, is RA severance 1 or 2 weeks for every year of service? Thanks! -RA just around the corner-
Comment 07/14/08: FYI, Vacation is paid to you at departure from IBM, if you are a California employee you will also be paid for all unused personal choice holidays for the current year. These will be paid at the same rate as vacation days. This is per California Law. -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: Please cite or reference the statute that requires this.

Comment 07/14/08: For all those discussing WellPoint, you also need to realize that WellPoint’s primary concern (just like IBM’s) is to make money for the execs and the shareholders. Anyone who originally worked for Anthem has no doubt heard many times that “Anthem is an insurance company, not a technology company”. These days they are interested in everything as cheap as possible, especially IT. They have directly off-shored app development and some of their own call centers (providers now deal with folks in the Philippines). They are on-board with off-shoring support on their account if it saves them a few bucks. Any complaining about quality of work is just a dog and pony show for their business areas. For WellPoint to ever complain of off-shored resources, language barriers, etc, just will illustrate how hypocritical they are. In the end, they will get what they pay for. Honestly, I don’t believe anyone wants to be the 10-15% left behind as I’m sure your job will become to clean up and cover up the work being done off-shore. Things like on-call should be interesting. Anyone who does on-call and works with the WellPoint NOC knows how unbelievable they are. I can only imagine when the primary on-call person is off-shore and they either start calling the secondary (or anyone else they want) because they’d rather deal with someone who they can understand. Bottom line is whenever someone at WellPoint is unhappy with the service they get from IBM, they should thank their own management for signing this deal… Oh yeah, out of the three of them, two got canned and the CEO retired. How convenient. -Never surprised anymore-
Comment 07/13/08: As I have stated previously. If your job can be done overseas cheaper it will be sent overseas. With no contract obligation to keep it here or to keep you employed here there is zero possibility that you will keep your job without unionizing. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 07/13/08: There are 22 employees being RAed from the GTS Internet Security Systems group. Mostly sales and marketing, with a few SW engineers thrown in for good measure. Also, just a corroborating case here, multiple people here at ISS heard the same thing in the orientation ISS employees had after we were bought; that our ISS time would carry over, and as it turned out, that was a lie. People here are hating their jobs right now, and people are running for the door like their lives depended on it. -GoISS-
Comment 07/12/08: To -WLP_IBMer- Usually when a manager specifically states "I can't tell you if it will happen in 60 days", they are trying to let you know that it is going to occur. You can assume that means it will happen in 60 days. The 2008 projections for IGS were to offshore 80 - 85% of the work. Since we are 1/2 way thru the year. A 60 day timeframe sounds accurate. -tai mai shue-
Comment 07/11/08: Just heard from my manager that most/all US global services jobs are going to be going to India. He kept telling me over and over that he"couldn't tell me if it would happen within 60 days or not...". Lovely -WLP_IBMer-
Comment 07/10/08: I don't know why but I am still amazed to see people asking if anybody else knows when the next layoff will be??? Is this any way to live? All you need to know is that it's coming, and believe me it is. You have 3 choices, get it in gear and make the union a reality, sit and wait for your layoff, it is coming, or move on to another job now. -Ra'd man-
Comment 07/10/08: Another article about RTP layoff. IBM Layoff Hits RTP: IBM has laid off about 30 workers in Research Triangle Park, a company official confirmed Wednesday. -My Thoughts-

Comment 07/10/08: To Wellpoint Shuffle: Owen Cropper or Jeff Miller can answer your question definitively. They will make the decision. -Anonymous-
Comment 07/09/08: Here at IBM RTP too just today >> -Anon-
Comment 07/09/08: Does anyone know when the next RA against IBM folks on the Wellpoint account will occur? Thanks in advance. -Wellpoint Shuffle-
Comment 07/09/08: IBM lays off RTP employees: -Mistresofthei5-

Comment 07/09/08: Hopefully this is the globalized beginning of the end of employees working absurd overtime hours. = Dead End Job-
Comment 07/09/08: To -Anon-Muser- I am sorry to hear of what you are going thru. Sadly, EVERY ibm deal that includes taking on employees from another company goes the same way. IBM uses an 18 to 24 month transition period to consolidate, and transition the new work into ibm's hands. After they do this, they shed a good number of the original employees who came over. This is known upfront to the signing company as well as IBM mgmt. It's only the poor employees who think they still have a job, who sit in the dark until its too late. It's part of the process. That's why we need a union. All this stuff would be up-front at the beginning of these deals, and people would have choices if they wanted to work under those conditions or look elsewhere. -miss understanding-
Comment 07/09/08: Alliance response to Anon-muser not correct. A lawyer can help even though they are at-will employees. Shaving severance is something that workers can sue for that is not related to discrimination. Depending on outsourcing agreement lawyer can either sue IBM, outsourcing customer or both. More employees in the suit the better. It happened to someone I know and all he needed was the original offer-letter to get IBM to see the light. If the employees came over without that in writing, shame on you. General belief or misunderstanding on the subject may have caused affected employees to not read the fine print. -Slap Your hand-
Alliance reply: The original post about Micromuse said employees were "told".
Nothing was mentioned about anything in writing or an outsourcing agreement. That certainly would make a difference and contacting a lawyer would be warrented. It isn't clear whether the Micromuse-future-IBM employees ever had access or saw any 'original-offer letter'.

Comment 07/08/08: Just wanted to pass on to others on the board that some of the people who came over from the Micromuse acquisition are getting thrown under the bus from IBM. All Micromuse employees were told that their time at Micromuse counted for IBM time; however, upon getting RA'd and a package, are now being told that isn't the case. HR is now saying things like "Who told you that?" I have spoken to so many people today that verified we were told that Micromuse time on the job would transfer to IBM. Now HR is saying they are only including the 2 years since the acquisition. Should I seek a lawyer? I know others that can back me up including past and current employees. Anyone know a good lawyer? -Anon-Muser-
Alliance reply: A lawyer will do you very little good, if any at all. Let's review. You and your co-workers are "AT WILL EMLOYEES"; and as such, HR, management, the IBM Corporation itself; can do anything they please regarding employement
policies. They can SAY ANYTHING THEY WANT. You are not protected by labor laws that stop them from saying it. There is no legal case here. YOU NEED A CONTRACT. A union contract, that spells out ALL the details and policies agreed to, by and between your union and the IBM corporation. Period. Organize your co-workers; Join Alliance@IBM, and grow the membership to a number that IBM MUST reckon with when the union is voted in, and then at the bargaining table. Individuals can fight back, with lawyers all they want, and spend gobs of money. Some may rarely acheive small victories; but in the end, the company will prevail as long as the individual refuses to unite with his/her coworkers. It really is that simple. Go and contact " others that can back me up including past and current employees". Organize them. Get them to organize others. It is the only option for all of you; other than leaving your job; which is what IBM hopes that you do. Please contact us for more information. Contact Us
Comment 07/08/08: This is the person from the "Track your vacation... Life's great after IBM..." post. I used to work for STG (mainframe HW dev) in Poughkeepsie, NY. I was never pointed to the CLAIM system. As others have said, I hadn't even heard about it until it was mentioned here. LN Vacation Planner was always the tool used by my former management. I remember when I was an intern back in 1999, using a system called TOTALs on the mainframe systems for time tracking. With this lack of properly tracking of vacation time consistently across the corporation, AND being able to charge someone based on hear say from a past manager, sometimes with no proper documentation to back it up... I wonder how many former employees might of been improperly charged for used vacation that they in-fact did not use? -Anonymous-
Comment 07/07/08: -Vacation Planner- It depends where you work. I worked in Austin (STG) and the vacation planner was not required. I don't even know what CLAIM is/was.... -Neal Watkins-
Comment 07/07/08: In regards to using claim to track your vacation time. Most of the IBM corp does not use ILC Claim. Nobody in mfg using claim. If anything they may use the LN vacation tracker. There is no requirements on the large scale to track vacation. It is a gentlemens agreement between the manager and the employee. The LN's vacation planner is not even supported. -Beat Up-
Comment 07/07/08: Anon on the ILC CLAIM. You are right if the individual works in one of the "IBM Global Slaves" divisions or in SWG services. Most those folks fill out CLAIM and there you have to report everything and it's a legal document. Fortunately, a large number of employees in other divisions are funded or allocated headcount so they do not use CLAIM at all. Some funded headcount in Div 23 and 16 also don;t fill out CLAIM because they are funded headcount living off the inflated quotas the delivery folk have to commit to every year. So the poster was right and accurate, as long as she/he is funded or SG&A allocated headcount. -Old Coot-
Comment 07/07/08: I thought this was hilarious:
IBM laid off ~700 employees (mostly freshers) citing…? “performance in aptitude tests that were recently conducted in undisclosed IBM India locations.”] -- no kidding. Been with IBM for 10 years, but have never heard of CLAIM? -Jacob-

Comment 07/06/08: RE: the Anonymous post on 07/03 regarding vacation - what the heck are you talking about? The Lotus Note Vacation Planner is strictly that - a way to plan your vacation as well as let your manager and co-workers know when you'll be out. Even if you are exempt, every week you should be officially recording your time using CLAIM (ILC). This constitutes a legal document, and there are entries there for vacation, personal choice holidays, etc. There is no "gentleman's agreement" with ILC - either it is accurate or else you falsified a legal document. -Anonymous-
Comment 07/03/08: Please be aware... IBM does NOT seem to have a centralized vacation tracking system for vacation days that is tied into payroll for exempt employees (engineers, software developers, etc.). As a former ASIC design engineer from Poughkeepsie, NY., I have only seen/used the Lotus Notes vacation planner tool. This tool can be effectively reduced to nothing more than a "gentlemen's agreement" between you and your manager. At the time a person decides to leave IBM (...hopefully of his/her own choice, as I did). It is the manager's word against yours about how many vacation days you acatually used. If a (possibly upset) manager claims that you used more than you're entitled too, you will be charged by IBM after the fact. You need to track your vacation days accurately prior to leaving the company as you won't have access to the Vacation Planner tool, once you're gone and your former manager may have no interest in helping you to sort out the mistake. Also, no matter what, the best thing about working at IBM... is having IBM on your resume. I wasn't sure at first, but rest assured... life after IBM is WONDERFUL!!, Though it WAS good for most of the time I was there, my only regret is that I didn't choose to leave Big Blue sooner rather than later. In any case, thank for the memories (and resume…) Big Blue!!! Also, best wishes for the future, to all those who are about to spread their wings and move onto to the better things yet to come!! BTW, when I left Big Blue I received about a %35 increase in salary... (it's a beautiful world out there, get out there and GET YOURS!) :) -Anonymous-
Comment 07/03/08: Hi Anonymous, I should point out I am not a US citizen or resident, but we have the same discussions in my country. Using measures as you propose are worth consideration (particularly the role of H1B visas). But they will only slow offshoring, not stop it. If you use protectionism to cushion the blow on ordinary folks while your economy transitions, I applaud that. You just have to not use it to ignore problems and pretend they will go away, because they won't. If you restrict financial records, how will your overseas business travellers pay their expenses? You've just added cost to your workforce. If you restrict access to medical records, Americans overseas may die as doctors make decisions without vital information. Every step the government or union takes to protect American workers adds to the cost of them, and makes America less attractive as a place for me to place staff on a project. This doesn't mean you should allow corporations to pillage at's a balancing act. The world has changed, the future is global, and recognizing this is the first step toward dealing with it. -Fingerbun-
Comment 07/03/08: Good Idea! I set a note to my congress critters. -Neal Watkins-
Comment 07/02/08: To Fingerbun: Two political actions that could slow offshoring:
1) Mandate that no Medical or Financial records for US Citizens be processed/accessed from outside the United States.
2) Tie H1B Visa quota's to the national unemployment rate for a particular job class (ie Unemployment for Project Managers or System Administrators falls below 2%, then H1B visas can be used to bring the number back in line). Write your Congressmen ! -Anonymous-

Comment 07/02/08: Just a matter of time: I haven't heard that the DBAs would be insourced, but it wouldn't surprise me. As for the SA's, I believe you are right: it's just a matter of time. -Anonymous-
Comment 07/02/08: To Anonymous - any idea when the Wellpoint Unix SAs and DBAs are being offshored? There was talk of the DBAs being insourced. Thanks! -Wellpoint - Just a matter of time...-
Comment 07/01/08: Just 1 Waiting - your concerns are valid but I'm not sure about your solution. Unless the US is going to shut itself off from the rest of the world as Japan once did, your union must be international. A national union cannot stop offshoring. Worse, attempts to stop offshoring could actually make the US workforce less competitive and accelerate the very thing you would be trying to stop. But a strong union could force corporations to act more ethically in the way they offshore. -Fingerbun-
Comment 07/01/08: Concerning the RA of Lexington Distributed Operators: I have it from good authority that anyone claiming time against the Wellpoint Account will be RA'd. In the past, Management was allowed to shed contractors and move regulars from the account that was being offshored to other accounts. Not with this action though. My understanding is that Jeff Miller has directed that anyone who was claiming time to Wellpoint must go. This is Miller’s way of sucking up to senior executives--showing them how tough he is. Cropper is on board with this strategy as well. Smee and Company must be proud of you boys. -Anonymous-
Comment 07/01/08: -slated to go- It could be only a maximum of 13 weeks. It all depends on whether you can get the "standard" severance or the "enhanced" severance which I still hear is up to 26 weeks (2 weeks for every year up to 13 years, minimum of 8 weeks).
If you are a PBC "3" or a PBC "2" Managed Out without a specific RA then you usually only can get the standard package from my understanding.
PLEASE NOTE: if you leave on your own or IBM construes you are leaving you generally get no severance. Severance is actually considered a benefit offered by IBM.
I wish folks would not worry about what severance they are going to get now. Why not spend more energy with whatever time you have left in IBM trying to do steps to get us closer to a collective bargaining agreement with IBM. Organize your fellow workers now! Then we can all have a say in what the severance package may be. At one time IBM offered much better severance than we can get now (I think it might have been up to 52 weeks back in the 1980's) but since we can't negotiate with IBM without a collective bargaining agreement yet, IBM can choose to offer whatever severance package it wants IF it wants. -sby_willie-

Comment 06/30/08: 13 Distributed Operators to be RA'd in Lexington Kentucky due to the Wellpoint account going to India. Way to go Jeff Miller and Owen Cropper! Thanks for your support. -Anonymous-
Comment 06/30/08: to the Alliance: Let me just say that if you maintain the number of members you have through 2010 you will get your union, because that is probably the number of IBM employees that will be left in the late, great, U.S. of A. -just1waiting-
Comment 06/29/08: I joined this union in hopes that IBM employees would finally see that they needed to join together and start working towards saving our jobs. I know now that it is too late for that. Our jobs are being outsourced at an alarming rate. It is going to take more than a single labor union to put a stop to the outflow of our jobs and along with those jobs our intellectual capital.
IBM and other multinational corporations are now hammering in the final nail to our frightening economic future. They spouted their venom about globalization being better for the American economy, against all logic, until most of the sheep followed. Well, we can all see the result.
Whatever happened to common sense?
If we tried to argue the point that if they sent our jobs away they took away our ability to provide our family's bare necessities much less support the American economy, they would begin shouting the word protectionism as if it was a dirty word. I have to just shake my head in disbelief when I hear that, because protectionism is why we have fought the many wars that made us a free country. Of course any sane person wants to protect our homes, families, jobs, belongings and most of all FREEDOM. Free trade is what they shout! Well, folks there ain't nothin' that's free, period.
Bringing together the employees of a single greedy corporation is just not going to get it. We the people are going to have to do better than that. The only thing our government has managed to come up with is a lame stimulus package that was thrown together not for us, but for the retailers. They had hoped that we would spend more money on more imported junk. However, they are now figuring out that for the most part people were using the money to pay overdue debts because of our stagnant or declining salaries, pay down charge cards with their gangster like interest rates, catch up on sub-prime mortgages, put gas in our gas guzzling imported automobiles, buy overpriced imported salmonella ridden food and even the folks who have been more frugal stuck the money in a saving account. Our economy is in the toilet folks!
How is it that the gap between people who "have" and people who "have not" has gone from being a crack to being a great chasm? What we need is a national labor union, is that even possible? -just1waiting-
Alliance reply: It is NOT too late for IBM employees to build a union and go forward to obtain a contract. A national labor union is possible. They already exist. CWA (Alliance@IBM affiliated)
has a national membership of @ 700,000 union members. The CWA belongs to the AFL-CIO; which has multiple unions as members. Bringing together employees of IBM to join Alliance@IBM CWA local 1701, is what we are trying to do. We thank you for your membership and all the effort you have taken and will take to make this a reality for IBM employees. Talk to your co-workers. Seek out people to discuss the alternatives. You are not alone. The organizing effort can not all be done by one person. It must be done by ALL Alliance@IBM members. Contact our office for some help. Don't give up.

Comment 06/27/08: Please answer this question for me. How can Alliance ever gain enough membership when the company continues to lay people off non stop? Everybody that I know that was booted out with me and has a new job doesn't even read this site anymore. Once they are gone there is no more interest. -RAd with the rest-
Alliance reply: The Alliance will continue to organize as long as there are employees. We will continue to challenge IBM. Think how much power we would have if even 40% of the employees at one site or in all of IBM, really stood up and said enough is enough to Sam P. It can happen if the employees have the will.

Comment 06/26/08: Does anyone know what the severance pkg is like? Are they still offering a max of 26 weeks pay? I have heard they dropped the max down to 18 weeks. This is for the folks that are currently affected and any folks to be layed off in the future. -slated to go-
Comment 06/26/08: Surprised no one brought up but layoff happened to us in Rochester yesterday. -Rochester too!!!-

Alliance reply: Thanks for the link. We posted this on our front page.
Comment 06/26/08: I have heard that The microelectronics division is going to experience layoffs. Not sure of the numbers, but layoffs are included in the plans. -miss understanding-
Comment 06/26/08: I have heard from some top sources that as the summer progresses in BTV there is going to be more jobs lost. This will happen when Fishkill is done with their re-org. Good Luck to all those that feel safe. -Good Luck-
Comment 06/25/08: Re: fire D manager- You can choose to not post this as you do with so many posts, but this guy is right. IBM knows what it's doing, and there will never be a UNION. Don't get me wrong, you definately need one in IBM. Notice I said you. I was also there for 9 years. I watched this site, paid dues until I was canned, and got nothing but a notice from IBM, to get the hell out. It's time to cut and run for those who are left. Now I work for a company that treats me right. IBM just plain sucks. That's the bottom line. It ain't worth fighting for your job there, anymore. IF you people at Alliance have any balls whatsoever;, post this entire comment, and then comment on your own if you like. -ra'd last year-
Alliance reply: First of all, you left no email address or name. There is no way for us to validate that you were ever, an Alliance@IBM voting member. Second, if you were watching this site all the time you believed that we "definitely need" a union, and DIDN'T help to make a union a reality; how could you expect it to happen on its own? What's that about "cut and run"?? Every man/woman for themselves? To hell with your co-workers and the idea that fighting back collectively is worthless or a bad thing to do? Organizing takes effort. Effort means not sitting still with your hand out, waiting for the union to walk into your company and take over. It's never worked like that and it never will. Organizing a union, joining a union, fighting for your job.... That takes courage, perseverance, and effort. What was that you were saying about "balls"?

Comment 06/25/08: To -fire D manager- Lets see. Managers decide who is fired. We have to cut one person. I know! If I am the manager I will fire myself for the good of the team. Not going to happen. Why is it that Steelworkers, Iron workers, Auto workers, Hospital workers, Teachers, Government workers et_al get it and unionized. And as a result most still have a defined pension and affordable benefits. And the alleged highly inteligent IBM employees can not grasp that IBM will do NOTHING for them without being forced to. Not this year, not next year not ever again. Read ALL the comments sections. Even some who got a one rating still did not get a raise. thats essentialy a pay cut for OUTSTANDING work and contribution. Oh and you can bet your health benefits are going to cost you more in the fall for next year. Little or no raises and higher benefit costs during record earnings and profits. How do you think it will be during leaner times. I do not believe IBM will hesitate to do across the board pay cuts if they get away with the 15 percent cut without any union repercussions. If we allow them to get away with that and the insulting raises again this year then we send them a clear message. We do not care how you abuse us we will take it like the sheep and robots that we are and thank you for shoving it deep up our collective asses. IBM. Its not a career anymore. Its just a job. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 06/25/08: Well, I was RA'd from GS in May 2007. I periodically check in here just to see what shenanigans IBM is up to and, sadly, they seem to be as bad or worse as they ever were. For me, things couldn't be better after IBM...better pay, better working conditions, respect, etc. I know many people are just hanging in, waiting for that package which may never materialize, or may materialize, but may be far less than you'd hoped. My own thoughts are that I wish I had acted on my own disenchantement with IBM 5 years prior to the RA. I know damn well that I'd be farther ahead now if I hadn't clung to IBM and had actively pursued other opportunities. So here's what I have to say: while you remain with IBM, join the Union. I can tell you that I'm in a union position now and I work 1/2 an hour less a day, make $20K+ more, and get paid overtime at 2X. Oh, pay increments are set out in our union contract, so it's not down to the whim of IBM management. One last piece of advice: when something better or with more potential comes along, take it and don't look back. You'll more than make up the pittance IBM will throw you when you're RA'd, through improved quality of life and (most likely) improved remuneration. -You Don't Always Get What You Want...-
Comment 06/25/08: The Burlington plant will continue to layoff employees throughout the summer. 180 in already happened in June. I heard from a very reliable source (my former 2nd level manager) that there will be a few hundred more in July and August. Join the Alliance and lets stop this harassment of American employees. -Joe-
Comment 06/25/08: TO >>>-Getting RA'd->>> If you have to ask, you must be a newby. You don't get out of it, just make it take a long, long, long time to do the transfer of knowledge... how long did it take you to learn all the ins and outs...years. Take one day to do each step of a process. What are they going to do; RA you ? -been-there-done-that-
Comment 06/25/08: Lou Dobbs on federal government inquiry into a law firm that helps companies, like IBM, with H1B's.
No American need apply. -just1waiting-
Alliance reply: We posted this link in one of the comments sections, a while back. It's definitely worth a second look.

Comment 06/25/08: Why pay US wages when you can get twice or three times the crap for the same money? Good point, quality_assurance because most of what I've seen out of BRIC countries is certainly at that level of quality. -Truth be Told-
Comment 06/25/08: Seems to me -nobody- that the fault is with the teacher than it is with the people you claim to be teaching. Poor documentation at half the price is still poor documentation. Obviously the teacher should be US based because it doesn't appear to be working the other way around based on what you describe. -Blame the Teacher-
Comment 06/25/08: Lets face it, there is not going to be any union except for this message board. I would like to think there would be but after working in Fishkill for 9 years I have yet to see any organized union rallies or meetings. The only hope we can have is the managers are hit first. -fire D manager-
Alliance reply: It is possible we can set up a meeting in the near future. Right now we have 'members only' conference calls for the mid-Hudson area. Face to face meetings in the past 5 years were very low in attendance. It makes no sense to spend lots of money for a big room and only have a handful show up. We need commitments from employees that they will attend. If that happens we will set up a meeting.
Comment 06/25/08: Why do I always see young folks complaining about old timers not pulling their weight. Considering IBM's love of dumping old timers they must be out working the kids. I remember a typewriter CE saying to me, "I took 15 calls today and you only took one. I I work 15 times harder then you". My one call was a down system whose maintenance brought in more money in a month then those 15 Typewriters brought in in ten years. Sometimes its quality rather then quantity. On many occasions, I have gone onsite with a youngster who had failed to fix the customer's problem. Looked at the problem, told the youngster what to do next then went over and talked baseball or football etc with the customer who had known me for 20 years and trusted me to get the problem fixed. As a result of this the customer did not call the manager to throw the youngster out of the account because I asked him to give the kid a chance. To the kid I was sitting on my ass while he did all the work. In actuality I was saving the kids job. Did I ever throw that in the kids face. No. But the more I read comments like this the more I think we oldsters should do just that. Or run to management like the kids do to tell em how hard we work and how we just had to bail the kid out. Management would love for us to do that. Make it very easy for them to lower appraisals and not give raises and not have to do any work themselves. But we understand its our coworkers who make up the team. Not our managers. Just like football. Bad season, Team stays, coach goes. Stop trying to beat each other down thinking thats what gets you ahead. Band together and all of you will get ahead. Remember IBM is the best at divide and conquor. No, not against their competition, but against their employees. Old plan, New plan, First choicer, over 40 choicer, cash balance, No FHA, FHA, No raise for a one because you saturated a make believe bracket and we need to give the little bit of raise money we have to young people to retain them. And on and on. Stop Falling For it. A Union is the only answer that can address all your grievences. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 06/25/08: I hope they start the next round of layoffs with all 2nd and 1st line managers. -fire D manager-
Alliance reply: How about "Join D Union"? Maybe that's an even better strategy?
Comment 06/24/08: To Neal Watkins: I agree experience helps a lot, but so does paying attention. In the past month I have provided 2 of my lesser skilled (US based) team members detailed instructions (all they had to do was cut/paste or type what I had written down for them) to facilitate change. They both failed to review the documentation, or pay close attention to it. And I've counted how many times I've had to show them how to do the same thing over and over again. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been asked "how do you do this?" or "where is this located" only to have to point them to documentation that was already provided to them. This type of work deserves to be off-shored. If IBM is going get crap quality work, why not let BRIC do it for less money - can't blame IBM one bit. People keep saying the quality of US work is better than BRIC - if you look at 1 or 2 specific people , but overall it's not - first hand experience working with US people who simply can't do their job because they lack the ability to pay attention. -nobody-
Comment 06/24/08: If you want to know what happened to your job, read this article:,2933,371081,00.html -left last year-
Comment 06/24/08: Vermont says IBM plant to layoff 180 workers. -Mistressofthei5-
Comment 06/24/08: I was told yesterday that I am going to RA'd by the end of the year. The contract I am working on is going back to AT&T - they want us to train before we all leave - bout 35 people, what is the best way to get out of training my replacement. -Getting RA'd-
Comment 06/24/08: I read a lot about quality of work in the US vs BRIC. I'm a Sys Admin and still work with US based application teams. I have to say, they're horrible when it comes to following processes and being pro-active. The teams I work with NEVER patch their applications unless they break, or have a CIRATS records due in 3 days to address security patces. It's all last second work. I have an account that the application teams don't even know what servers their applications run on, or even if they have a user id on that system. They wait until Friday to put in a change record for the following Saturday, when they know well in advance they have to do the work. Point being, the US is NOT a better quality of work than BRIC, and quite honestly, I don't blame IBM one bit for wanting to off-shore work when it's being done so poorly in the US. Why pay US wages when you can get the same quality with less money. -quality_assurance-
Comment 06/23/08: Ref:Starving beemer: Well...maybe and maybe not...
When you have a long time with the company, you've accumulated a lot of knowledge. You start to realize that there is "nothing new under the sun" but there are sure people that it's all new to. It's like the old joke about a machine repairman that came to fix a large industrial machine. He reached in the back a pushed a button and the machine started working. He charged them $1025. $25 for the service call and $1000 for knowing which button to push. Maybe those old guys can do in 5 minutes what it takes you 3 hours to figure out. That gives them time to do 5 or 6 things while you're running around. That gives them time to go to the cafeteria and talk about golf. I saw it too many times. "How did you know that?" Well...experience helps a lot. If I didn't know, I usually knew who to ask in a lot of different areas. You can do this too. Why not get closer to these "experienced" folks. You may be surprised that they are eager to share their knowledge. You know...collaborate to solve a problem. Work smarter not harder. I'll bet they know how to do that. Really "THINK" for a change. Oops...those signs are long gone... But I still have mine - in 2 languages. I have a million examples of this but not enough time or space here ... -Neal Watkins-

Comment 06/23/08: I suppose you could say I am an old timer since I just passed my 30 year mark with IBM. I used to be in the same boat as the new hires (as ALL new hires are) with entry level salaries that were less than the oldtimers that were around when I started. It was those old timers that trained me and taught me how to succeed. BUT, I certainly am not sitting around waiting for a package, or take 6 coffee breaks a day, 2 hour lunches, some members of neighbouring teams that I work close to infact have scheduled 'crossword' sessions/contests 3 times a day! I work the 60-90 hour schedules every week, and would mach my desire for customer satisfaction and work ethics with any one (old or new). Like you, I have the mortgage, car payments and college tuitions to pay... but I like my job, and I like the people I work with, and I don't have time to monitor what they are or are not doing. It's NOT my retirement that will raise your salary or jump you level. It's hard work and dedication. Worry less about your co-workers age and length of service and you might find you have time to do more and get the recognition (and salary and levels)you feel you deserve. No matter where you are at, there will always be someone with more age and tenure - learn from them! How many 20 year CEOs are out there in the real world? Experience is the best teacher and someday, you too will be older, more mature and wise enough to know what is and is not appropriate to say or write in public or private. Sure there are bad eggs in every age group, but just because you are older does not mean you are used up and should be put out to die. -- Old Timer and Still Kicking with the young studs - -Anonymous-
Comment 06/23/08: Starving beamer, Could be a reason us old timers make more money. For one thing we tend to know our facts. Do some research and find out what the average time in service at IBM is. Salary in the 20's !!! That is an early 1980's salary. Why do you stay? Waiting for a package. Again do some reading on the subject. IBM robbed the pension plan years ago and then froze what was left. The medical after leaving will last a couple years at best. Those of us that have really worked for the pig for thirty years will still have to work after leaving IBM just to cover our medical. We have grown with every tool set IBM has used. Can you say the same. In the bottom of my desk is my old slide rule. It will most likely still be usable long after you and I have left the company. -Old timer-
Comment 06/23/08: IBM started giving notice to managers let go today here in Burlington. Tomorrow the rest of us find out just how deep this goes. -update-
Comment 06/23/08: It is true. Working along side old timers who are basically there waiting for a good package, is getting old. I don't care about the age issue as there are just as many new IBMers from over the last ten years as there are old timers. But the fact that the people doing the same job as you are making 70-100 grand a year performing some pathetic task, while you are paid 30 a year after 8-10 years (without AWS, salary in the 20's!) is ridculous and something that is constantly and ridiculously ignored. If someone has not advanced in the company after 25-35 years beyond running some tool or doing a job a temp could do, then they are NOT an asset and are bilking the company. With pathetic salaries in the 20's the rest of us (who are doing all the work and sometimes pathetically running the show as well) can barely afford to eat with the increase in gas and other prices. Unlike the old timers, we will not retire millionaires with all your stock and retirement. You can laugh at that if you want, but we all know what you've got coming and...well...add it up. If anyone should start a union it's us newer peeps getting bread and water for being 1 and 2+ performers every year. IBM why are you not offering these old timers a package?? Most of them are just waiting for one. You are wasting money, and please...SPREAD SOME THIS WAY SO WE CAN AFFORD TO LIVE A RESPECTABLE LIFE!! -starving_beemer-
Alliance reply: We welcome your membership. We want to organize ALL US IBM employees; regardless of their age, salary, or years of service. Management is NOT elligible to join. Your situation
would dramatically improve, if you had a union contract, bargained for by all the union employees' representatives.

Comment 06/23/08: Been there done that.. Your talking about an IBM that has not existed in the USA since 2001 - 2002. IBM, as far as ITD - GS, has gutted and thinned out the resources so much that its beyond the fat, they are loping off arms at this point. We were into muscle and bone during 2005 2006. I watched as contract after contract went from judging the sla's and customer sat to using lawyers to fend off the lawsuits from missed sla's and poor performance. I watched a robust pipeline drain whilst hearing all types of excuses why it wasn't filling, as we watched HP and EDS take our lunch year after year. Its amazing about the comments regarding folks in India and China. Yes, there are some brilliant folks there. My experience has been a completely different work ethic, lack of continuity, customer dedication during a crisis is lacking. Management is only looking to exploit a cheap labor force, that's it. You read stories about how abused the ibm employees are in India and how folks are leaving in droves. Ibm is now exploiting Vietnam, because the labor is cheaper. It doesn't change. You can sugar coat it all you want, the bean counters are running the business. Ibm's rep continues to drop in value. -former ibm'er-

Comment 06/22/08: Since it is so profitable to hire off -shore employees (you get so much more for your money), why don' t we find off-shore replacements for Sam Palmisano and the other low performers. I am sure these foreigners can do a much better job than there American counterparts, right? -Anonymous-
Comment 06/21/08: Totally agree with Zion. One thing I do see at IBM Canada is that the technical teams are pretty much 'Leaned' but there seems to be lots of money for clerical/non billable workers - they sent a load of 'Service Analysts' (ie, clerical, non technical help desk) from out west to the east coast for 'training' at great expense and when we need training for a genuine, technical reason we are refused. Any business needs to work optimally and needs to cut fat in harder business climates, but from what I see is 2 things:
1. Cutting in the wrong areas.
2. Some older IBM'ers who are clearly there for a free wage package since they take 6 coffee breaks a day, 2 hour lunches, some members of neighbouring teams that I work close to infact have scheduled 'crossword' sessions/contests 3 times a day!. It is the other half of the IBM'ers (the hard working, suffering, skilled ones) that I sympathise with - including myself - why aren't these lazy IBM'ers cut? probably because they keep their mouths shut and are no trouble to management (apart from the small output of work)
3. The obvious, which is what we all are complaining about: outsourcing to cheaper locations and the skill level is not the same - meaning the client suffers, the remaining techie suffers in that he/she has to cover up/correct for the person in India etc - all this while the executive gets richer and everything else (including IBM) suffers. -DM-

Comment 06/20/08: To Blueturd. Absolutely, Wellpoint support will be offshored. It would have already been offshored, were not the contract so poorly managed, particularly, IBM's inability to integrate the Mainframes from Va, Ga, and CA. The whole thing was a mess and IBM has had a bunch of senior level exec's assigned to square it away. Rest assured, it's going. -Anonymous-
Comment 06/20/08: -Been there done that- It's still happening in IBM Canada today, folks shows up late, chat on the internet, take long coffee / lunch break and watch the clock until 4:pm. IBM needs to cut the fat, unfortunately the hard working folks get cut first and these waste get to enjoy another pay check.. Canada -Zion-
Comment 06/20/08: To: -Been there done that- You are absolutely correct. All the people saying that American multi-national companies are doomed to fail don't understand economics. American companies are stronger when they are more productive and if that means outsourcing jobs overseas to more productive workers, so be it. It's a global economy with global competition. Open your eyes to the health of the company instead of just focusing on your own little job. -global economy now-
Alliance reply: You're confusing productivity with cost. They are separate. The USA has had the highest productivity for many years, than the rest of the world. The offshored jobs went to countries that were not even in the game of productivity. The jobs went there because LABOR WAS CHEAP. Cheap=cost=higher profits for the company coffers and Executives.....and in IBM's case, not any better dividends to its stockholders. Open YOUR eyes to the concept of a level playing field, in an upward direction, not a race to the bottom. Think Global Union. The means of productivity are owned by the company; however, the results of productivity are in the hands of labor. Organized labor is what is needed to truly level the playing field of the Global Economy.
Comment 06/20/08: With just ONE additonal job cut announced on June 17 from East Fishkill and Poughkeepsie drops IBM's employee number in Dutchess county some more. We now know that they are not fulfilling their promise to Dutchess Co. NY state to maintain a minimum employment figure (not including temporary or contract workers) to get corporate welfare tax abatements. -shameful Blue-
Comment 06/19/08: -Finite- But without union representation with a collective bargaining contract, the big corporate boys have all the money to wait you out in the fight against any discrimination; since you can't even file a real grievance as a start. -anonymous-
Comment 06/19/08: I am not American. I welcome America's contributions to the technology and wealth of the world (which have been considerable). But I don't want the rest of the world to live in squalor so Americans alone can enjoy wealth. IBM is adapting to the new world and will contribute to the prosperity of Americans and others. In the process of adaption, some people are getting badly hurt, whcih is not good. But if IBM and other companies don't adapt, they will die and their contributions will be lost. Which is preferable? Where there is a viable union, I would join it; not because it can wind back the clock, but because it can be a force to cushion the blows of change for those affected. The comments about simple life being unable to compete in a greed-oriented society should make everyone think. You can choose to be less greedy. I have done so and am free of debt and could survive retrenchment without real pain if needed. Once you adjust your thinking its a great way to be. -Fingerbun-
Alliance reply: IBM is preaching adaptation; but still going about their business as they always have: Make a profit and work around country labor laws, to get what they want. The new world you're speaking of is contrived by companies like IBM. The squalor that you mention has been part of the world's situation at least, since the industrial revolution. That's the era that unions began to appear with stronger resistance to the greed factor. You may be right about the perception that Americans have enjoyed wealth and prosperity; while other countries in the world were plundered by American Corporations. "The Ugly American" was even made into a movie in the early 1960's. The point is; corporate greed continues, now as Global corporate greed, not just American. The Corporations of the world are focused on countries like China, India, Brazil, Russia, Mexico, the Phillipines, etc., where cheap labor means bigger profits for the corporations---not prosperity for the majority of the country's population. IBM has been at the forefront of this "globalism" before it was even called that. It's even in their divisions names, i.e., "IBM World Trade". It's been in their name since they incorporated as International Business Machines. Yes, Americans can choose to be less greedy---and so can global corporations. Stop the race to the bottom. Organize your co-workers and fight back against the global corporate domination of all nations. Do what you can within the labor laws of your country, to level the global field of labor and production. That's democracy at its best.
Comment 06/19/08: I don't know how to react to a lot of this. I was with IBM from 1988-1993, and watched several termination plans come and go (FAP, VTP, etc) I left on my own terms a month after I got my last tuition reimbursement check for my newly minted MBA. I really don't know how to feel about this mess. On one hand, I am sorry to see jobs go abroad, but let's face it: who were the hardest working kids in college, but those from China and India. Where are the majority of the jobs going? You guessed it. In my last six months at IBM, I had to share an office with a returnee from maternity leave who brought the freakin kid in every day because she "couldn't find daycare" (translated: did not want to pay for it) This lady used to spend her mornings talking to her girlfriends about her impending divorce, shopping via catalogs (thankfully the internet had not yet caught on), and planning her weekend. I would be on the phone and her baby would be crying, and our manager was a rookie who lacked the backbone to do anything about it. I have to wonder if we all have not had co-workers like this, and if this is not partly self-inflicted. Best with the unionization efforts! I am glad to be out. -Been there done that-
Comment 06/19/08: To -grave_diggers-: One message that should ring clear to everyone on this site is to NEVER train your replacements. It benefits you in no way what-so-ever. My team had counterparts in India that they wanted us to train, saying they would be our overseas team, helping us. We didn't buy it, and plain out refused to train them. That idea somehow just went away. Our jobs lasted longer than they would have, but still went away. If you are going to be RA'd anyway, at least leave with some dignity. NEVER train anybody else to do your job. You can't hold IBM to any promise. They don't honor them at all! Apparently the Dutchess economic development board doesn't realise this and it is shameful they still gave IBM the break. -Ra'd last year-
Comment 06/19/08: To -Simple_Life-, You make some good points, but one point I do not agree with.
You had said: "Update our skills to match the market need".
The problem with that is: I watched in dismay as US co-workers who DID have the skills trained thier overseas counterparts, only to be let go after the skills and knowledge were transfered. They felt like they were "digging their own grave" during the process. -grave_diggers-

Comment 06/19/08: Supreme Court makes it easier to file age discrimination suits -Finite-
Comment 06/19/08: You are correct in that big American multi-national companies are about to fall. RBS even announced Sunday, the big economic fall is coming in the next few months and our national and business egomaniacal leaders will soon be persecuted like common thieves. The end of the era of using nationalism and gingoism to cover for economic abuse and failure will soon be upon us and it won't be kind to America, I'm afraid. They are fiddling with the books and dancing like Nero with Rome burning and Fort Knox going bankrupt.
The immoral and illogical actions and decisions they are making now are only the last desperate signs of a financially richer; but lower moral class of individuals and legalized bullies trying to recover from decades of Harvard business school led abysmal and immoral mis-management. There is no moral leadership in American business. It's all been destroyed and replaced with "management" that doesn't know anything, but how to react like a dying trapped animal, destroying even itself in a futile and illogical attempt to selfishly save its own skin.
The union concept is not about lifetime employment. It's about fairness in employment. True, unionism has been infected with scandal and many times it has been confused or abused by some to try to achieve lifetime employment or personal power, but that's not the objective of true unionism. The objective of unionism is to provide a balance via unified labor against improper acting management. I believe unionism will be increasingly viewed as the only chance for survival for western civilization and business.
Many western Europeans are blessed with the fairness of unions, although some have abused it. On the other hand, the majority of the middle east has still to emerge from the slumber of business slavery prevalent in the middle ages and enter into the 20th century. Indentured servitude and legal abuse with class stratification via economic slavery isn't the future, Carlos, it's the past.
Unionism, like liberty and democracy, isn't perfect, but it's the light at the end of the tunnel for these violent and adverse times which will turn out to be a new step forward in the political and business evolution of humanity. -A-

Comment 06/19/08: yes it is true.. all PBC, IDP and payroll 800# tier 1 support will be going to Manila from effective 7/1 -stoked-
Comment 06/19/08: Has anyone heard about the global realignment (i.e. - - India is gonna get your job)..on the wellpoint account? all of the technical support will be history before 08 ends. everything is on the table. -blueturd-
Comment 06/18/08: I totally agree with Carlos that jobs will go wherever makes business sense. It is simple business 101. People in the US have had an easy time for too long. It is time to wake up just like Carlos suggested. What can we do to be competitive?
1. Update our skill to match the market need,
2. Develop a saving habit for rainy days,
3. Keep a simple life style,
4. Join a union if there is an effective one (but I seriously doubt it). -Simple_Life-
Alliance reply: Your point is well taken; however, consider these answers to your recommendations:
1. The market 'need' is cheap labor, not skills. The skills exist in the USA
, with people who have lost their jobs to Offshoring and Outsourcing: translation=cheap labor was required by corporations, to 'compete', not skills.
2. Absolutely agree! USA americans have been taught, in the last 3 decades, to "invest" instead of saving. Big difference. They would buy stocks and put their money into the "free market" company economy. Savings accounts were abandoned because interest rates were miniscule and not the 'smartest' thing to do at the time.
We should have been wiser...
3. Agree, but see #2. Simplicity can't compete in a greed oriented society.
4. Agree. However, the effectiveness of a union is measured by its members willingness to be involved with it and above all, stand together through all the corporate world's pressure to de-unionize. Again, the union members are the ones that make or break the union's effectiveness. Sacrifice, effort, and strength are still the ingredients that keep unions in place. ALL of the members have to be willing to work to build an effective union.
That's what unite means!
Comment 06/18/08: I'm a former IBMer from Portugal, from Software Group. IBM has responsabilities to Wall Street and profits to IBM is like bananas to monkeys. What do you expect? USA is doing what many companies in Europe have done, we are not surprised. Move a business to India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan? yes, its a clever and up-to-date decision. USA it's not the Capitalism motherland? Ahhhh, but it's knocking at your door, I know and you don't like it. I'm working in the middle east and be sure that IBM and others big blues will fall down in the next 10 years. The world is changing and USA is not anymore DisneyWorld. Sorry, boys, but wake up. Jobs for the all life doesn't exist anymore in Europe! -carlos-
Comment 06/17/08: The Poughkeepsie Journal confirms that 250 were let go today... POK Article -Already gone-
Comment 06/17/08: TO: -Jobs are Here-: WHAT ARE YOU NUTS? I cannot believe anyone can say that with a straight face. If you have been put on the RA LIST..., THERE ARE NO JOBS HERE, THERE OR ANYWHERE!!! You don't like our pessimistic view? Man, I have heard it all. You deserve whatever you get Pal. DENIAL is not just a river In Egypt. I got the boot last year this time, hard finding a job, but once i did, PARADISE COMPARED TO THAT SWEAT SHOP, FULL OF LYING, CHEATING, TWO FACED MANAGERS THAT WILL STAB YOU IN THE BACK. Jobs are here -- Keep an eye in your rear view mirror sport. -Paulie-
Comment 06/17/08: As usual, a week before actions, the local paper warns everyone about how bad off local IBM business is.. Burlington Free Press article -Anon-
Comment 06/17/08: Burlington Free Press reporting. -btvrumormill-

Comment 06/16/08: "Comment 06/03/08: Yes - Project Managers are in the spotlight for off-shoring. Not a good career move if you're in the US, unless you want to be layed off. -miss understandgin-".... Do you have any details without compromising your identity or source? I presume this is in the Atkins organization. -another IBM serial#-
Comment 06/16/08: -jobs are here- wrote: "To -peevedtothemax- If you're interested in an internal position, check out the IBM database with the list of IBM assignments/jobs. If you don't know about these two databases, your manager should know about them. I guess I'm really at a loss for words at what you're saying. You have such a pessimistic view on the future of the IBM internal technical jobs. I don't see it that way at all and I definitely don't lose sleep about it and worry about it as much as it you seem to. This is just a job that provides income. If I were to get laid off tomorrow, I have no doubt of finding another job with another company quickly if I wanted. -jobs are here-"
You are one naive puppy. All you need to do is open your eyes and look at what's happened to internal jobs. India now has over 80,000 IBM employees in-country. Where do you think these 80,000 jobs came from. Just 2 years ago the number was 53,000 employees in India. But you are right "- jobs are here -" the jobs are here in Bangalore. -Eyes Opened-

Comment 06/15/08: I received the info of the 80% - 85% offshoring targets from my manager. In my opinion, I think he realizes he is SOL now, since he's been spilling the beans on a bunch of things. He's told us privately, that he doesn't expect our group to be around in 2 years. He's told us to beef up our skills and make sure we are all marketable out in the real world. He also doesn't expect his own job to be around in the future. -tai mai shue-
Comment 06/15/08: To -peevedtothemax- If you're interested in an internal position, check out the IBM database with the list of IBM assignments/jobs. If you don't know about these two databases, your manager should know about them. I guess I'm really at a loss for words at what you're saying. You have such a pessimistic view on the future of the IBM internal technical jobs. I don't see it that way at all and I definitely don't lose sleep about it and worry about it as much as it you seem to. This is just a job that provides income. If I were to get laid off tomorrow, I have no doubt of finding another job with another company quickly if I wanted. -jobs are here-
Comment 06/14/08: How many more years can you work for nothing ?!?!?! My time is up soon and I'll make a nice exit for sure! -Dood-
Comment 06/13/08: I do not believe I have ever heard anyone seriously say " Damn am I sorry we unionized". -Exodus 2007-
Comment 06/13/08: Anyone have any news for Canada? We got a few more Argentian and Indian collegues this week and have been told to participate in a 'Global' Tchnical documentation project (no conincidence the only ones contributing are from the western countries!) - no surprise I suppose and IBM Canada is saving 100k a year by now taking away the water coolers from most (eventually all) their sites too! - Isn't it the law that they have to provide drinking water at their offices!? -DM-
Comment 06/13/08: -jobs are here- wrote:"But we have no plans to oursource" You need to take off the blinders. You're living in a world of fantasy. Most all internal and admin jobs at IBM will be sent elsewhere. -Been There-
Comment 06/13/08: To "Tai Mai Shue," "jobs are here" and "peeved to the max" - The long term strategy is to offshore everything that can be. The IBM Global Account is first on the block since there are no contracts prohibiting offshoring and the reasoning that IBM can't effectively sell offshoring to SO contracts unless the IBM Corporation is doing it ourselves. The executive levels within ITD are ignoring the quality problems, lack of productivity issues, the high turnover rates and the rapidly escalating pay in BRIC. Total denial. Even so, they aren't so stupid that they think they could offshore all of the IGA work by the end of 2008. If they did, major breakdowns would occur with a devastating impact on the business. But every quarter, the execs will be relentlessly pushing to reduce US headcount and will be demanding more work moving offshore. Every damn quarter, they will be back for looking for more to cut and more to offshore. Not unlike Chinese water torture for the survivors. Over time, the US jobs moved offshore will become higher and higher skilled. operators, then system admins, then IT specialists then lower-band project managers, then lower-band architects and eventually the high band PMs and architects. Think year end 2010 as a more reasonable target than 2008. Finally, this offshoring is not limited to IGS and ITD - virtually everything is on the table for global integration and migration to a low cost country. IBM US layoffs, counting the layoffs already executed in the last 3 to 4 years and including the ones to come yet this year, in 2009 and in 2010 could reach 100,000 if they execute their plan. I believe they are already behind plan because of the unanticipated issues noted above, so completion by 2010 is in doubt. -Frank-
Comment 06/13/08: OK jobsarehere.. tell me what project you are in..I am technical.. -peevedtothemax-
Comment 06/13/08: To -tai mai shue- : 80 to 85% of IBM technical jobs may be offshored, but not all technical jobs in the US. Since I left big blow, I am appreciated, not over worked, and there are a lot of companies out there that do not offshore jobs. I am constantly told what a great job I'm doing, "good work", etc. Never once in my 9 years has a manager at big blow ever said anything to me like that. -ra'd last may-
Comment 06/12/08: To -tai mai shue- who mentions: "80 - 85% of all US technical jobs will be offshored by the end of the year." To -peevedtothemax- who mentions: "Well by the end of the year, all internal accounts will be OFFSHORED."
I do not believe either of those statements. Look on,, etc. There are plenty of U.S technical jobs. An IBMer I know posted his resume out there and was getting replies for jobs every hour. He did leave IBM and says he's glad he did. Our project is looking for some good technical people (yes, it's an internal project), but we are not getting many resumes from our job posting. We want people with good technical skills and good communication skills. We've rejected some people who have a language barrier and are difficult to understand and we've rejected some who don't have the strong technical skills. But we have no plans to oursource. -jobs are here-

Comment 06/12/08: 80 - 85% of all US technical jobs will be offshored by the end of the year. Stop waiting for the other shoe to drop and join the union people. Once it happens to you it's too late. -tai mai shue-
Comment 06/12/08: The funny thing is, I read in the papers that companies are offshoring because of lack of qualified people to fill the jobs in the US. When I post a requirement in India, it takes me an average of 2 months to fill it, because the people here are not qualified to do it. If people are qualified to do the job, we have to cow tow to their every whim so they do not leave. If you are looking for a job here in Bangalore (and are qualified) you can find one very easily. The offices for all the major US suppliers are all literally across the street from each other here. So if workers here are fed up with IBM, they can literally walk across the street to HP, Dell, Cicso, etc. -Anon In India-
Comment 06/11/08: The latest from the btvrumormill has 300-500 people will be affected around June 24th. Band 5 on up also LTS as well. Talk of 5-2 3 shift schedules for eng/maint depts and finally mangers who do not have people to manage will be axed. -btvrumormill-
Comment 06/11/08: Well by the end of the year, all internal accounts will be OFFSHORED.. ALL of MVS. if you have to log on a system to do your job, you can hang it up. From a VERY reliable source.. -peevedtothemax-
Comment 06/10/08: That's all we are hearing at the BTV plant are the lay off rumors. Temps and some perms in 5-2 jobs are suppose to get cut. There hasn't been this much buzz going on since the last big layoff happened. I guess only time will tell we are not getting answers from any higher ups. -Rumormill-
Comment 06/09/08: I heard from several reliable sources that around 500 employees will be cut at the BTV site this summer, most likely July. Stay tuned. Hopefully the Alliance can offer more information. -Joe- Comment 06/09/08: To RA'd in May - you are so right about the IBM environment and while
there may be some decent managers out there (very few), their hands are tied and they are doing what they are told. They can't help themself let alone others. -goneanddidbetter-
Comment 06/09/08: To Don't Shoot the Messenger: Selling off the Williston buildings would be sort of strange. They're replacing the air handlers, one section of a building at a time, over the next several years. If the plan were to sell them, either doing nothing or selling after the major deficiencies were fixed would make more sense. That doesn't mean it's not going to happen, just that it would be like selling a house while you're in the middle of a renovation. There is a lot of empty space on both sides of the river (Williston and Essex), so consolidation would make sense (whether or not there are job cuts). -Willistonian-
Comment 06/08/08: would love to know whats going on at the BTV plant... cant beleive all the rumors! not sure whats reliable or not. you know some of what is said must be true but it would be great to know what if anything is coming down and if LTS empolyees are going to be hit as well. -Missy-
Comment 06/07/08: To 103% utilization: You are actually still concerned about a PBC and are still listening to what your manager is telling you? Have you been reading this site? You can can work yourself to death if you want. Your manager is just telling you that you'll never get the PBC you want because he's not allowed to give it to you. He's telling you, no matter what, you'll never get better than a 2. I worked like a dog and never got better than a 2. PBC's are a joke. If you want better pay, make sure everybody you know, knows about Alliance. Without a union, don't be shocked if you get another 2 or 3 or get ra'd with the rest of us. Remember, they can do whatever they want, and your manager is NOT your friend, so don't treat him as such. He'll smile at you as he's pulling out the knife. -RA'd_may2007-
Comment 06/05/08: Reply to -why a union- Very few companies have the revenue and business position to leverage that IBM has. IBM WAS a great place to work and can be again. A union would force Greedy Executives to invest some resources in employees instead of themselves. IBM as a corporate entity can afford any change a union would want without any pain at all. In reality why should a CEO get a 29 Million dollar Bonus and his employees nothing in a profitable business. In these times a cost of living raise would be a great help to ALL employees and not an unreasonable thing for IBM to provide because they certainly can afford it. My last 10 raises in my 30 year career were most certainly merit raises because they were far too small to be cost of living raises and I was a 2 plus or a one . In the past year alone costs in Maryland have gone through the roof. The Gas and electric company got 78 percent in rate hikes and gas has climbed almost a buck a gallon and most IBMers in Maryland will see less then 3 percent in raises in a company posting record profits. A succesful organization of IBM will set the standard for the whole industry and raise the quality of life for an awful lot of American workers. When you hear workers talking about their proffesion and they say " Union scale is XXX" thats leading the way and improving life for people. You seldom if ever hear union scale being LESS then a company pays. Unions help define the workplace for ALL American workers. IBM is not a doddering failing business on the verge of collapse. IBM is a vibrant worldwide player making record profits from the labors and sacrifices of its workforce yet pleading poverty to its workforce when its raise time. Or benefits time. Or retirement time. Unless you are an executive of course. -Exodus 2007-
Alliance reply: Execllent answer Exodus 2007. I would add that any company is made 'great' by it's employees; the ones who use the means of production to put out a quality service or product. Thomas Watson Sr. once said to his employees during a dept. meeting in Endicott, "Managers are a dime a dozen. You people are the ones that keep this company going. You are all very important to this comany's success". I know this, because my father heard those words directly from Thomas Watson Sr. himself, at my father's dept. meeting, in 1956. At that time, IBM was making sure that their employees knew that they were valuable, so that management didn't have to worry about unions.
Comment 06/06/08: My goals for next year include 103% utilization. My manager told me last week that just meeting the goals will result in a rating of 2. IBM really wants people to leave with these unrealistic goals. Majority of people in my group will a 3 next year due to business development team not able to close on deals (we already several business development team members leave/retire/quit in the last few weeks). I am barely hanging in right now. I hate working everyday knowing the end is coming - no motivation right now. -Anonymous-
Comment 06/06/08: To -why a union- : The reason to beef up the union is to make IBM what it once was... a great company to work for! I left Pig Blue last year after the May 2007 bloodbath of RAs. Based on several top guns on my team being RA'd, I knew that my number would be up soon and I chose to leave on MY terms, not Pig Blue's terms. The only way I would ever reconsider a position there is if the existing employees banded together and the Alliance actually became strong enough to put labor contracts in place where the scum-sucking management team cannot send jobs overseas at the drop of a hat. I spent nearly 9 years there. For several years, I was actually proud of that. Now, it's become almost a disgrace to say "yes, I used to work for IBM." I can't even say it without some disdain creeping through in my voice. To those of you still there, PLEASE join the Alliance. Unfortunately, I never knew the Alliance existed until after my job hunt began (and I found a new job within 2 months). Had I known, I absolutely would have joined. So I will say this again, make sure your coworkers know about the Alliance. It's too late for me. I hope it's not too late for you all. -Mistressofthei5-
Comment 06/06/08: To Why a Union: The reason for a union is to keep companies like big blow from treating employees as bad as they do. Unfortunately this company is so bad, it's far too late to fix anything. I agree with you to find another job with a "good" company. I've been out of there over a year now and I can tell you it is NOT worth it working at big blow. Other companies treat you right, no worry about constant layoff, no more stress, no more OT, no more pager, on call, the list goes on and on. I sleep well at night now. -Gone_A_Year_Now-
Comment 06/05/08: The rumor mill is buzzing that there will be layoffs at the Burlington VT plant this summer. I heard from a very credible source (my former 2nd level manager) that IBM plans to pull out of the Williston buildings and sell them off. Williston employees will move to the main site and there will be substantial layoffs as part of restructuring and cost cutting. Best of luck to to all. -Don't shoot the messenger-
Comment 06/05/08: So tell me again why we need a union when just about everyone's comment on this forum says IBM is one of the worst companies to work for? If it's one of the worst companies to work for, then who cares if we get laid off; we'll just go find a better company to work for. I don't see anything positive mentioned about IBM here. If we're going to pay and fight to keep a job, let it be with a great company. -why a union-
Comment 06/05/08: 08A Family - YOU ARE IN THE SPOTLIGHT. I was RA'd last May. I still have plenty of friends all through out the upper ranks within the blue pig.The PM's have been targeted for quite a while. Most of them are band 8 and above and are pulling in more money than what what the pig pays for contract PM's, so your next. IBM can get skilled experienced PM's for aprox 60K to 80K MAX on the outside all day long. Take into considersation that BRIC PM's are substainally cheaper than that. There wwill be a sizeable reduction in PM's over the next 3 quarters. SO / ITD will continue to bleed profusely. Unless your outsourcing contract is in litigation for failing to meet the terms of the contract, your overstaffed. Thats the new standard, not customer sat. Polish your resumes and start looking. Be prepared, so when you do get ra'd, your leave with a smile. I wish I was more prepared, so I didnt stress like I did, but I landed on my feet with more money and RESPECT.. something sorely missing in the blue pig. Remember when we had work life balance and spirit? Remember when we had an across the board increase to retain folks? Its over.. North American works are targeted. -former IBM'er-
Comment 06/05/08: Hearing cuts are happening in Tivoli (Software Group) in RTP, NC -black&blueAllOver-
Comment 06/05/08: Ok, I/T Specialists and SysAdmins are being phased out in the USA and go to the BRIC and now PM's seemed to be next. Question: what position or career path is a good career move in the USA in IBM now? Isn't it clear folks we need a union to protect USA IBM jobs? -anonymous-
Comment 06/04/08: I was on the AT&T Account Cycle Time Initiative Project before I was cut due to funding. This is one messed up project. Duplication of work on both the IBM and AT&T side with a push to off-shore most of the work. It's funny that one of my managers on the project just got an IBM Technical Excellence award from corporate - just amazing. -Aron-
Comment 06/03/08: Yes - Project Managers are in the spotlight for off-shoring. Not a good career move if you're in the US, unless you want to be layed off. -miss understandgin-
Comment 06/03/08: As im sure you are all aware the dublin plant is losings its I/P series assembly operations to china. We have been predicting this for the last 2 years. It looks like the end is coming. We have been told Jan 09 with a major announcement due in guys any info pls reply. -Cisco101-
Comment 06/03/08: ABIW - Yes, the reports I hear is that we're far too short on PMs so they will move foreign PMs to be the TPMs managing the GR's. US based PM's will be forced to be more business and customer centric and be expected to travel 100% of time. I also heard one of our cores has offered to take over all US PM slots and promise to deliver 20%+ reduction in costs. -PMs Get Ready-
Comment 06/02/08: June 2, 2008 2pm EDT - IBM just announced a move of "Classic SBC" (AT&T Account) jobs from USA to Brazil. IBM began cS account on 12/1/2007. I'm told these folks were guarenteed a job for only 6 months. About 350 to 400 employees came over from the "new" AT&T (the former SBC after buying AT&T). No USA employees will be offered jobs in Brazil. IBM claims this is not a "resource action". IBM claims it is a "global company" and uses this as an excuse to offshore jobs. No individuals have yet been selected for offshoring. People were told today but no one knows which individuals will be targeted. Transition starts June 1, 2008 - May 2009. IBM employees are expected to train their new counterparts in Brazil. Managers of people affected once again are doing nothing to stop this. They are merely pawns in the corporate torture chamber known as IBM. -Next On The List-
Alliance reply: A news reporter is looking to interview any former IBM employee who had to train their offshore replacement and then lost their job.
Contact the Alliance at with your name and phone number.

Comment 06/02/08: I heard today that there is a huge move to outsource some of the Project Managers. Has anyone heard anything similar??? -ABIW-
Comment 06/02/08: I am hearing more job cut notifications going out tomorrow June 3rd from HR to Managers. I know Tivoli is being Impacted and other units. I verified this with a IBM manager and he stated he gets his email from HR tomorrow letting him know it is okay to let people know. -Anon-US-Tiv-
Comment 06/01/08: Good Luck to all my friends from printers in your new positions in Ricoh. Unionize now so you have a say in your future. Stop the abuse before it becomes standard operating procedures. Your position will never be stronger then it is right now to organize. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 06/01/08: To "wantapackage" : How did you make out? I also have heard mixed messages on this -
1) If you ask for a pkg then forget it, you won't get one. More or less a result of reverse-self-selection and
2) Since mgmt. is under pressure to cut, it makes more "sense" to cut those that WANT to go so as to save moral... this is something perhaps a rational manager would do but then again many managers these days are not rational, and indeed you might be one of the more valued team members and thus... "Why would IBM pay you to quit?" Anyway... let us know eh? Thanks! -Anon-

Comment 06/01/08: Over the years I have been cut 3 times and had my exit interview set. All three times I found a job. It has been harder each time to keep a job. It is almost impossible to get a job in the time given. If you can move to DC, they are hiring people. Do not hesitate on applying for jobs. People will help you with your resume, but you have to "ask" them to review and give you feedback. Make up a folder containing (1) cover letter (2) resume (3) additional information about your skills and training. I got my last folders at Walgreens! Deliver this folder to the hiring manager. (Hand deliver if possible.) If you get an interview, "hand write" a thank you note and get it to the interviewing manager. "Do not wait for a response on the jobs posting, apply and immediately contact the hiring manager" If you need your job, be willing to step down a band level or relocate. I have done both. I know the hopeless feeling and rejection. It is hard to smile and be a friendly face ..."a person is more than a job." One other thing, ask your mgr for the name of the HR person for your org. Contact that person and ask them for help and advise. Even if they do not want to talk to you ... call them back! Work on looking for a job with the same intensity you put into your job each day. Apply inside/outside of IBM also with the same intensity. EAP is free and helped me in setting my priorities straight. Use all the resources you have at hand and consider a trip to the dentist to improve that winning smile. Join the alliance, if you are not already a member. : - ) Everyone reading this alliance site needs to join so we can support each other. -Anon-Texas-
Comment 05/30/08: To all of you who have been given 30 days to find a job- you wont find a job internally - the intent is to get you out not move you around..BUT take a moment to thank the manager because they did you a favor - your life outside of IBM will be 100 times better. GOOD LUCK EVERYONE -goneanddidbetter-
Comment 05/30/08: I agree with Been There - Don't bother looking inside of IBM, you won't find anything. Your manager tells you to look and there are jobs, but they won't be filled by the people being released. I left over a year ago under the same circumstances and it couldn't have worked out better. Same with another person working at the same location both then and now. Enjoy your life - go ahead and take your severence pay - and look for another position with another company. There are many better companies than IBM that respect and appreciate their employees. Don't burn your bridges, stay friends with your manager, and leave happy. You will see that this will be the best move for you. You might even get a job with higher pay than while you were at IBM and you will certainly get a job where they appreciate your contribution. -Gone-For-Good-
Comment 05/29/08: "My manager informed me last week I have 30 days to find another job in IBM or I will be released. I did not get any hint from my manager how to look for another job. I have been trying to search on but trying to get anything useful from that site is impossible. Any help would be appreciated."
Sorry to say this but your days are over with IBM. You will not get another job internally. You are damaged goods and all managers in IBM know that but won't tell you. If you find another job within IBM and apply the hiring manager will not contact you. Don't let IBM ruin your self esteem. There is a big world outside of IBM and you will eventually get back on your feet and do fine. Good luck with your career. -Been There-

Comment 05/29/08: Ref: -Quiet in vermont- OK - this sounds familiar - What have you done for me lately? The Alliance can't do anything because it has not unionized IBM. It keeps trying, but folks like this want to get something before they give something. Kinda like IBM - but who scratches the back first? Why not just sit back and wait for someone to do something for you, then MAYBE you will decide to participate. I guess there are 2 kinds of folks: people and sheeple. You see what's happening around you. Don't you? Do you want to do something about it or not? If not, then just sit back and wait for IBM to do "something" for you. -Neal Watkins-
Comment 05/29/08: layoffs start tomorrow at ibm east 5 and up are targeted...good luck everyone... -flipper-
Comment 05/29/08: I can tell all of you from working directly with a manager for many years, doing the managers job, when it comes to cuts, they are the ones who pick and choose. If you are not a pet, you will definitely get it. It is definately a favorites game out there and if your manager doesn't like you, you're history. It makes no difference how hard you worked, how much OT you put in, what your joke of a PBC was. It's a matter of revenge if you ever challenged your manager. I've seen it too many times, heard the remarks from my manager about this one or that one is a trouble maker or too outspoken so he's history. Suck up and you may survive a while. Challenge the manager in any way, and you're out the door. More cuts coming we all hear. -Hegedus-
Comment 05/29/08: I have ben reading your comments fot quite a long time to get an idea of what is going on in IBM. my wurstion to you is that you want everyone to join but can you tell me what have you actaully done to help any one of us from being layed off? Give me 5 examples wha you have done for a paid member to save his/her job? I'm just totally curious. -Quiet in vermont-
Alliance reply: We can not stop layoffs at this point because we do not have a union contract nor enough employees to tell IBM "no layoffs". The Alliance is an organizing campaign and employee advocate. Our members see the need to keep the heat on IBM and therefore step up to the plate and voluntarily pay dues to support the Alliance organization and employees and their issues, even for the employees that don't contribute.
If you want more of the same at IBM, by all means don't join. But if you want respect for employees returned, some dignity on the job and a process that determines if layoffs are really needed then join us and get your co-workers to join as well.

Comment 05/28/08: I received a 30-days notice and from what I read here so many are true from my own experience with ibm managers...They are a bunch of liars. -Really_Pissed-
Comment 05/28/08: To Seen it: I was rather emotional when I wrote that, however, my critical thinking skills have since kicked in. I found out many many things that are not just bad business, but against the law. I encourage each of you to PAY ATTENTION TO EVERYTHING YOU RECEIVE. Also, check your Lotus workspaces, see if you have workspaces added, but have no idea as to what they are for. Check those for items of your supposed responsibility, or requiring your action. Sometimes, just sometimes, you will find the smoking gun you were looking for. You would be surprised (probably not if you have been around this shithole for any length of time) what you will find, especially written, that is against the law (not state, city or county, but FEDERAL) To close this thought, I know I am marked, and will not find a job internally. The data I had on the original point can be framed to favor my manager. However, databases, email commitments, career paths, and violations of federal laws cannot be framed. Nor can they state any action was taken on employee performance, or other items. Violation of federal law instantly discredits IBM (imagine that) and throws out any allegations IBM tries to use--poor performance etc) I have been told to lay low, do what is asked of me during my separation, and keep my mouth shut (not by IBM management, but on professional advise I solicited) ) Keep this in mind also, FORCE you manager to address any RA related actions with you via email. If they are stupid enough to do it, all the better. If not, if you choose to speak to your manager on this subject, document every word said, and send it back out as email. Be detailed without overkill, AND KEEP THE EMOTION out of it. I can't wait for my last day. And take every stinking day off you have coming....your manager will find a way to screw you out of it. And since your managers won't talk to you after they RA you (afraid being included in a lawsuit I guess) I doubt they will even care what you are doing, if anything. AND GIVE BACK THAT ENTIRE CUSTOMER FILE TO YOUR PROJECT TEAM, and spend the rest of the time doing what you were told to do. Search for a new job internally, but prepare to separate from IBM. I guess this is how the slaves felt when Lincoln freed them (not meant to be racial., sorry if I hurt a feeling or two) PISSED OFF IS NOW DANCING MY WAY ALL THE WAY TO ARUBA......paid for due to travel points and air miles. Thanks IBM!!!!! And thanks for the making decision for me, I should have made myself, years ago. However, I am not going quietly. I will post another update later on and let you know what shook out of this. -Pissed Off-
Comment 05/28/08: Full of Irony but Happy.. I want to congratulate you on your comment to management in front of your team members. It sounds like it was done with professionalism. Those actions will be remembered by those who were unable to step up and join you with those comments. IBM has turned into such a sweatshop. Its management by fear and intimidation now. Management is playing with people's lives and seems to enjoy, or should I say, relish the chance to inflict such pain on people's lives. Its a power trip for most. The lay offs will be heavy in GBS - ITD for the next few quarters. The push is on to get everyone off the North American Payroll. Sizeable push to get rid of 08A PM's as well. They are contracting those folks cheaper than the internal cost. The push is to get a 50 / 50 split, at the most on IBM'ers versus Contractors. Contractors are performing to the lowered expectations that IBM has. Contractors have the carrot in front of them of the hope to join IBM, so they are not jaded by the BS for the most part. Look for a major push for Spirit and Worklife balance initiatives .. joking.. Work life balance and spirit incentives are only in the very upper ranks of the ivory tower. Take your time with work.. get as much education as you can. Polish up your resume so when you do get RA'd, which most folks will, you can laugh and collect the severance check and move to a better company. -Former IBMer-
Comment 05/28/08: You can continue to be victims or you can take your own future into your hands. Join the Alliance, quit complaining and start taking unified action. I left Big Blue a year ago, once you are on the RA list it is impossible to find a job internally, your best hope is that someone ranked a 1 in your group finds a job outside of your organization, but then you are still just stuck there waiting for the next cost saving action to take your job. Is that really any way to live. -smiley-
Comment 05/27/08: Heard today big cuts in STG will be announced week of June 23. Salary increases, if any, won't be announced until after the cuts and will be retroactive to June 1. -Mike-
Comment 05/27/08: NEWSFLASH. Dateline reality. To those who are shocked that their first line and second line managers do not help them find better jobs within IBM. Guess who selected you to be RA-d. Helping you find another job would be like saying they or another manager made a mistake. Ain't never gonna happen. Managers can not make mistakes in IBM because there is no UNION to hold them accountable through the grievence process. Thats why a manager will always smugly tell you if you don't like it quit. They KNOW you have no recourse anymore. Open door, speak up, HR etc are a joke. Use them in todays IBM and you are saying fire me next. Good luck to all in these trying times. Live better, work union. defined seniority, defined benefits , defined payraises, defined pensions, defined work hours. Whats not to like? Do not delude yourself that by standing alone within IBM that you are somehow an entrepreneur or are better off. You work for a company that only accepts lock step rigid compliance with their wishes so why not hold them to lock step rigid employment practices defined by a contract. Seems fair to me. Realize that even one performers do not always get a raise. I was a one two years in a row but got no raise because " what little money was in the raise bucket for our territory had to go to the young folks to retain them." Gee, How about allocating enough money to give ALL who deserve a raise a decent one. No way, that might take a dollar out of an executives bonus. IBM does not and has not"PLAYED FAIR" for years. Stop holding your breath waiting for it cuz your all turning a funny shade of Blue. Maybe thats why the company is called BIG BLUE. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 05/26/08: I'm in sales. I got my performance RA package (minimized ISAP) from my manager the same day I got my 2007 Hundred Percent Club pin! The pin came inside an unlabeled box in a manila envelope with the address of some unknown staff guy in Conn. My name was misspelled in the address. Luckily DHL figured it out and delivered both packages to the same address at the same time. What's left inside is just a bunch of sheeple. I feel good to have built up the courage to tell my management I had lost confidence in them in front of 200 of my colleagues. That cost me my job, but I regained my dignity and earned the respect of my colleagues and customers for being strong and standing for my primciples as I see them. -Full of Irony but Happy-
Comment 05/26/08: To: My manager informed me..
Don't bother looking. The system is setup to make it nearly impossible for you to find another job within IBM. They want to shed headcount, and unfortunately, your head is being counted. -irRational-

Comment 05/26/08: I read all these messages from all of you wishing that you will be RA'd or wishing you were on the outsource list so that you would get some kind of package and yet you still complain about the treatment you receive. You are nothing but sheep! I left last year. 2 weeks after by QCC dinner. No regrets! If you do not take control of your life then don't complain. Yea..we all have choices. But who's making them??? You or them!. -Quit Blue 1 year ago-
Comment 05/26/08: To: My manager informed me last week I have 30 days: --
Let me give you the best advice you can get...,, Looking inside IBM is a waste of time. You have been marked for termination and nobody will touch you. Just remember, there is live after IBM.. -I_had_30_days_too-

Comment 05/25/08: My manager informed me last week I have 30 days to find another job in IBM or I will be released. I did not get any hint from my manager how to look for another job. I have been trying to search on but trying to get anything useful from that site is impossible. Any help would be appreciated. -Anonymous-
Comment 05/24/08: Jobs cuts huh? Dudes, life does go on ... I really hope they lay me off because this place really is a prision. It's hell man, lay me off I'll have access to my retirement and have a chance to make a move and better myself, it's just a job man, I cant stay here forever. I'd like to contribute to the alliance, but how can i with a 20 cent an hr raise in the most expensive places to live in the country? ??! You tell me, I'm not gonna be choked to death here. So, I do hope they lay me off so I can move on to the next step in life. I know there is better out there, and I'm sick of IBM being jerks and rip offs to everyone. -james-
Comment 05/23/08: To: OKIE.. Number 1, IBM LIES, LIES, LIES, NOTHING BUT LIES FROM THEM.....Make it easier on yourself, do not believe on thing they say. If one grain of truth makes it through..ok., but ASSUME THEY ARE TELLING YOU EVERYTHING BUT THE TRUTH...I have never seen anything like the double talk lies from the IBM managers. -Anonymous-
Comment 05/23/08: To anon- sue the managers: In the end, it was a blessing in disguise for me. I got out of a horrible company, banked 5 months of severance, got a much better job, starting the week after I left big blow, and then a couple months later got a fat check for the overtime lawsuit. In the end, I got the last laugh. -Anonymous-
Comment 05/22/08: >>"My manager and second line would not even respond to my emails in that last 30 days. It was a total joke. When I confronted my manager on my exit interview about this, he just shrugged his shoulders when asked why didn't he answer my emails for 30 days."
Maybe this is a wrong, wacky idea, but ... in order to receive your severance you agree not to sue IBM. But what about suing individual people? If both your 1st and 2nd lines ignored your emails and willingly prevented you from finding another job within the company, why not drag them into court?
Comment 05/21/08: Looks like more job cuts are on the way. Are you going to sit there and wait for it to happen or are you going to get off your butts and do something about it? If you are not yet an Alliance Member, then sign up right now. If you don’t sign up, then you deserve to get what ever IBM throws at you next (and I’m willing to bet it ain’t going to be a substantial raise). -Wake Up And Smell The Coffee-
Comment 05/20/08: IBM east fishkill is going to have a large layoff at the end of june i hear. 400 to 500 people. They just laid off alot of manpower employees and after they lay off the ibm employees they are going to rehire the manpower people. They had to lay off manpower first before ibm employees. They are holding off raises until the end of june. Manpower employees get no benefits and a lousy 4 vacation days a year. Record profits, increased stock dividends and they keep playing games with hard working employees life. -Anonymous-
Comment 05/20/08: To Frank: In my last 30 days I applied for 6 positions that I was well qualified for. Not only could I not get my manager to even budge to help me one bit, but I only got one rejection. The other 5 didn't even bother to respond to my application in 30 days. My manager and second line would not even respond to my emails in that last 30 days. It was a total joke. When I confronted my manager on my exit interview about this, he just shrugged his shoulders when asked why didn't he answer my emails for 30 days. It was a complete joke. On my way out the door I said, thanks for nothin! -I_had_30_days_too-
Cross post from PBC comments section: Comment 5/19/08:  My entire mgmt chain consists of phd's with h1b visas. I had a big project I had support for, was developing, then, they said the project was "canceled". When asked why it was because it "was not good enough".. Got a PBC rating of 3. Contested the PBC - and officially lost.. however - one of the committee members said they felt very sorry and thought I was treated unfairly. My entire h1b management chain lied and supported each other.. eventually though, I was able to fully document their lies.. My managers claimed to have submitted my main project; but, instead buried it and lied about it's submission. I was the only american in the group. Any relevant work was shared with the other h1b visa's and the americans were isolated and sabotaged. Nobody talks about this - but there is a caste system at IBM.. especially in research. In some groups - if you are an american - you are caste out. -Caste in Research-
Alliance reply: We are very glad that YOU are talking about this. These kinds of incidents would not occur with a union contract. If you had a union contract, you would have had the right to address the unfair PBC with the help of a grievance committee, made up of your union co-workers. You also would have had help investigating the company's actions, in regard to the 'canceled' project. Contact your political representatives and let them know about the management chain of H1b visas. Politicians need to know that this is just one of the many negatives of raising the H1b visa limit. Whatever you have documented, hang on to it. In the meantime, make every effort to organize your co-workers. We realize that this may seem insurmountable; however, if you don't fight back by organizing, IBM will get away with this in EVERY USA location. Join us and let us help you and your co-workers to fight back. This is a prime example of why Alliance@IBM needs to continue and needs funding to continue.

Comment 05/18/08: layoffs coming again in Fishkill next month.. Really big I hear!! X IBMer...-B-
Comment 05/18/08: To -"I had 30 days too"- If you have skills that are in demand, it is possible to get another job within IBM - I've seen it done a few times. The odds are definitely stacked against you, but there is a chance. -Frank-
Comment 05/16/08: To those of you being told you have 30 days to find another position"within" the company, use that time to find a job "outside" the company. Believe what I tell you...NOBODY in that company will even look at you. Been there done that. Use the next 30 days 8 hours a day, or more, looking. You are marked for termination!! Without a UNION, you have no chance and are treated unfairly by companies like big blow. -I_had_30_days_too-
Comment 05/16/08: I am seeing jobs going away, and new job postings for Job Title + Intern; like Project Manager-Intern. Now if they hire interns for IBM customer projects (at a reduced rate) do you think that these savings are passed along to the customers? I think not. So they are not only ruining the workforce but damaging quality. Sad. -green mile-
Comment 05/16/08: IBM cuts jobs in Tulsa. Wasn't a recent IBM stockholder's meeting (2006) there? Didn't IBM then say it was committed to keeping IBM jobs local there? -okie-
Comment 05/15/08: monday and tuesday IBM laid off IGS and SO employees this week The IGS folks have 30 days to find another job in IBM or leave. They will not tell us how many people were affected or why this is happening except for a resource action for either "work elimination" or staff reduction. They still have hiring slots for Maximo, ITCAM, and NetCool skills. The people being laid off are mobile so they live all over the country. -Anonymous-
Comment 05/15/08:  100 md jobs. Yeah, go try to get one of those MD jobs. The job openings are not closed they are frozen. First lines were told that the reqs are frozen with no time frame as to when the freeze will end.
I am one of the employees that suddenly had the door slammed. Hiring first line was not happy but his hands are tied. -Fishkill employee-

Comment 05/15/08:  RA notifications today for Public Sector delivery in ITD. Unknown numbers. -The Informant-
Comment 05/14/08:   IBM Transferring 350 Jobs To Argentina -sucking_sound-

Comment 05/14/08: Open Message to Alliance: I understand the need to increase membership, and for dues to fund Alliance operations. To help active employees – who should be joining the Alliance, as a retiree after nearly 40 years, I have “anonymously” posted comments from time-to-time. I would like to be able to continue to read current comments and post helpful comments; but not at US$120.00 per year! Thus I offer three points for the Alliance to consider:
1) RESTRICT PARTS of the Web site and services to members, e.g. limit access archives, and some Web sections and newsletters;
2) ESTABLISH CATEGORIES of membership, e.g. active employee (full dues and benefits, perhaps including confidential counseling), retiree (full access for free or greatly reduced dues), subscriber (limited access with no benefits at nominal annual dues, and guest (free with limited access to include current comments); and,
3) LIMIT POSTS to comments of general interest, perhaps creating a new, open category for members only. Before offering more suggestions, for now I would be interested in starting a discussion, reading what others IBMers and retirees think and have to say to the Alliance, and, of course, reading the Alliance's response. -My Thoughts-

Alliance reply: Many thanks for your thoughtful suggestions. We are looking at exactly the suggestions you have made. We also listened to retirees and employees about the dues and instituted an associate member catagory at $5 a month, a while back.
Comment 05/14/08: no name - I don't know what you're talking about I see over 100 MD job postings. -Anonymous-
Comment 05/14/08: Layoffs in May? Of course this has been the norm for many years now. IT Specialists? One of their favorites. You can't sit back and wait and see. You have to be active and organize a union or they will do whatever they want. To those of you getting notified, my advice is, there is life after IBM. You'll be glad you got out of there. Believe me it's not the end of the world. To those of you left, if you want to stay, get the uniion going now or you're next. Don't sit back or you will be getting your notice next. -Its_starting_again-
Comment 05/14/08:   Pissed Off - if you've been RA'd and you think you actually have a chance of getting IBM to change their minds and take you back, fuggedaboudit. Sorry to say, but all your supposedly good reasons why you should be taken back, and all the "gotchas" you think you found in management emails, or for any other reason... it ain't gonna happen. It wasn't just your manager who decided to RA you, it was your management chain, along with HR, and they all have their metrics (i.e., quotas) to meet about managing people out of IBM. Your number came up, for whatever reason, and you really have to realize that you're a goner now, as tough as that might be to digest. Your best plan now is to figure out what to do with your life and career after you leave IBM, because you will certainly leave IBM. But just suppose for a minute that you do find a magic pill somehow and you do convince IBM to take you back. Do you really want to go back, after having been told by the company to get out? My advice is to find another job in a company that appreciates your skills and capabilities. And, forget about IBM. -Seen it-
Comment 05/14/08:   Fishkill and BTV are being trimmed. -big blue-
Comment 05/14/08: End the madness. Live Better> Work Union. -Exodus2007-
Comment 5/13/08: Internal job post openings in Micro-eloctronics have been pulled. Even offered jobs have been closed. A sure sign that it is time for a big lay off and making sure there are no internal jobs to go to. -no name-
Comment 5/13/08: Ref "Pissed Off" - remember - no package = no signature. Do not sign anything without a package. Especially the "Covenant Not To Sue". -Neal Watkins-
Comment 5/13/08: RIF 5/12/08 - Just got the call yesterday, I've been laid off. ITS AIX division, 11 years IBM. Had to tell the PM of my current project I was laid off. So far this appears very hush-hush. Not finding any detail about it at all, only heard of 2 other people being cut in GBS. Only common thread is we are all IT Specialists band 8. -Outta here!-
Comment 5/13/08: I am truely sorry "The Alliance" is having financial trouble. However this only points out that the people who are here are only looking for an open forum to bitch and moan and do not want to do anything about their current situation. Unfortunately, your actions/inactions affect other companies and other peoples jobs. From reading here, it looks like there are some cutbacks at "The Alliance" here too, because people here just want to gripe and moan and don't want to do anything else. I say it is time to get off your but and join. I was a member when I worked at IBM. Unions only work if people join them. If all people want to do is gripe and moan, have fun at your new job 'cause you eventually will get RA'd for something stupid. -Former IBM'er-
Comment 5/12/08: I believe that "Pissed Off" is not retirement eligible (at least from the post...). TMP/COBRA is available via the RA package. COBRA is available for 18 months (at 102% of IBM's price. That still may be cheaper than anything else. You have to look. If you get a package, it usually has 12 months of IBM subsidy. That is, the first 12 months of COBRA are at employee price. The last 6 months are at IBM's price + 2%. -Neal Watkins-
Comment 5/12/08: Thanks for the information. I have been talking with my network and was given some very good ideas on how to contest. Now it will just depend on whether I feel it worthy or not. If I manage to get back in, what would be in store for me, because I made them "take it back". My manager left enough holes via email I have a fairly decent case for reinstatement, if nothing else, it demonstrates poor management. I had this job just barely a year after being in field services for 10 years. How can you be held accountable to the same criteria as a Band 6 that you would hold a Band 9 to, especially if it was an entry level slot, to begin with. Screw it, I am tired of thinking about it, and printing everything I have for the past 10 years. I am going to have a cocktail. I hope all these corporate looters have asbestos like skin. They are going to need it when they all burn in hell. But don't use gasoline to start the fire, you might have to get a second mortgage on your house, oh wait, that is if your equity is worth anything. -Pissed off-
Comment 5/12/08: Ref "Pissed Off" - Here's my advice for the sequence that I encountered.
1) Call the Employees Service Center (ESC) asap. They will assign you a benefits coordinator. That's the person you work with for your pension and medical choices. This can take a while to make contact so you need to get this started as soon as you can.
2) The estimator tool is very close but not precise. The ESC needs to schedule an official calculation of retirement benefits. (My official one was $1 more than the estimator.)
3) They send you a package with your pension choice (you told the coordinator). Sign and return asap too.
4) It can take a month or more to get your pension started so make sure you have cash in the meantime. It is retroactive to your effective date though.
5) Be aware. Retirement is effective at the end of the month BUT you will get the first paycheck of that month and your manager has your last paycheck (maybe separation check too) in their desk. You are off the payroll system after that first check. Make your 401K deduction choice far enough ahead to be in that last check.
6) There is a lot of "jiggling" with your name on lists. Off this list...on that list. It takes time to settle.
7) Make every Dr. appointment before you are off the system. Order all Rx drugs too. See that dermatologist you always wanted. Do it while you are still on the active list.
8) Medical:
a) I chose TMP/COBRA. This continues my current plan choices. Otherwise, I would have had to sign up for all new plans under the retiree choices. See netbenefits to see the retiree choices.
b) Dental and vision are automatically switched to the retiree plan. TMP/COBRA is available for medical only.
c) They bill me for it until the pension starts where they would take it out automatically.
9) Get organized:
a) keep notes on all conversations with the ESC: dates, times, who you talked to, what was said...
b) get a file for home to keep all the stuff in - you will get a lot
c) The web site has a checklist for separation/retirement. Print it - follow it
d) print any other docs you can find
10) GUL - Maybe you signed up for a lot of extra insurance so your family would have money if you died and didn't get a pension. Now is the time to reduce that - you got the pension.
11) I recommend the 100% spouse replacement option for your pension. Discuss it with your spouse.
12) Discuss it all with your spouse. This is a big deal and they need to be involved.
13) I called Vanguard to set up a rollover IRA of my 401K. I got the accounts,etc ready to accept the money.
a) As long as you are 59 1/2 (or better), you can transfer into an IRA anytime
b) Do you like Financial Engines (off the 401K website)? Don't transfer all the money at once. You lose the link.
c) In fact, you can do it in stages. The plan limits you to 4 withdraws a year.
d) I used Vanguard and got Financial Engines through them instead of IBM.
14) I transferred my 401K to a Vanguard IRA. Go on the 401K website and follow the prompts to do a rollover. Make sure it's a ROLLOVER! As you fill out the steps in the request, you will get to a point where they say "The check will be sent to your address on record". Important !!! -> there is a link to fill in the address of a financial institution. Do that! You should have already spoken with the company. Then you see how the check is to be written. ==> The Vanguard Group, F/B/O "your name". (F/B/O = For Benefit Of) You do NOT want the check to be made out to you directly !!! This is so very important !!! They sent the check by ordinary mail. All I did was send it on to Vanguard. This whole process can take a week or more.
15) Medical, dental,etc is not automatically taken from your retirement check. You need to fill in the forms to make that happen. More time will get a bill in the mail for those things until the auto-deduction kicks in.
16) FYI - hopefully not soon
a) your pension and your wife's part of it come from different accounts. If you die, your wife needs to contact the ESC asap so her part can start. Meanwhile, a check or 2 of yours has come but you are not around anymore. That money has to be returned to IBM. (Only an accountant could love this system...)
17) Got any old stock options? They time out soon after you leave (90 days). Check the web site.
18) Getting a retirement gift? Went online and didn't see anything you liked or the one you liked was discontinued? You have a year to claim it. Check every couple of weeks. The selection changes.
19) Watch out for IRS tax witholding. Especially the first year. They may withold too little tax because your pension check is smaller (maybe a lower tax bracket rate). BUT - you may have worked for part of the year and thus your total income for the year is still high. -Neal Watkins-
Alliance reply: It is very helpful and generous of you to impart this information to the employees that need this advice. Especially, in light of the fact that those employees are coming to this site, in the first place, for help. The only additional advice we would add to your post is, Reminder: members dues pay for this site to exist. Please consider joining Alliance@IBM to keep this information flowing. The information you get from here is one of the many benefits that we offer in exchange for membership. Again, thank you Neal for the very helpful post.

Comment 5/12/08: My hiding place was not good enough. After being held accountable for things well out of my control, I now find myself in an RA situation. I have been around long enough to know that yes you can"look" for another internal job, but I am asking myself, do I want to continue working for this shithole company or do I want to try and hold on long enough that I can recover from this financial looting our government and CEO's have done for the past 8 years. I guess 10 years and 41 yrs old is the cut off. In the meantime, I am reporting revenue counts for a customer in excess of 22mm. I hope they all rot in hell. Get out if you can, I was stupid and stayed too long. -Pissed off-
Comment 5/09/08: About a month a go, Global Administration (secretarial group) manager's were told by their managers that about 20% of management needs to go and to start looking for jobs outside of Global Admin. A few folks have found jobs or retired but most of the old time IBMer are deciding to stick it out and wait for a package before they retire. A lot of the first line managers have 30+ years - especially in the tri-state area. Nothing has been said about the secretaries, but as the other poster pointed out; a new Maylasia center has been opened. No word yet on a resource action (my guess is they're too cheap to have one) for managers or assistants. They will probably achieve their number reductions by aggressively managing 'low' performers out.. -anon-
Comment 5/06/08: Hi, I guess I am one of the freeloaders. I watch the website because it gives me valuable information on what IBM is doing which helps me plan my career options. I don't join the union because I am an Australian, not an American. Having the website open means that you can gather intelligence on IBM activities from people who may be unable to post in the new world. It also is a vehicle to hold what IBM does up to public scrutiny, which in turn, may have *some* moderating effects on what IBM does. Big companies like IBM are now bigger than small governments. The union movement could be a balancing force, but only if it operates internationally. To my knowledge, there is no viable union presence in the Australian operation. We are in the same position as Americans, with IBM jobs being moved from here to lower cost centres. Until there are effective unions in the BRIC countries, we are all going to struggle. I know my perspective doesn't pay your bills, but hopefully it gives you another point of view on the best use of your website. -Fingerbun-
Alliance reply: We very much appreciate your point of view and your obvious support
of our effort. Thank you for watching us from across the ocean. We have known for some time that we have friends and supporters in other countries. We are connected to the IBM  Workers International Solidarity (IWIS) and have been, for some time. We are now carrying their web pages on our web site : also this page:
We will be contacting you and will try to provide specific information to you that we hope will be of some help in your workplace. Thanks again for your comments. We appreciate them.

Comment 5/06/08: IBM begins talks to CUT STAFF in Finland-union (see following link). At least the union is involved with this RA. Is this another wake-up call for everyone to join the union? -Union and RAs-

Comment 5/06/08: More employment contracts cancelled in E. Fishkill. -BlueBlows-

Comment 5/05/08: To "wantapackage": Towards the end of last year, I mentioned to my manager that I was thinking about possibly retiring. He didn't try to pressure me to retire, but he dropped hints that, if I truly wanted to retire, I could get a package. I TOTALLY respect this manager (one of the best I ever had), and have no reason to believe he was BSing me. YMMV. (As it turned out, I found another job in IBM that looked interesting, so I didn't retire.).. -Dewey-
Comment 5/05/08: If I were to join the Alliance, would IBM be able to find out (and possibly penalize me)? Is Alliance membership public record? Thanks... -Gene Poole-
Alliance reply: Membership names are NOT a public record. Number of members is. We have to file a report with the Government yearly. The only way IBM would find out is, if you showed them your membership card.
Comment 5/04/08: To The Alliance Folks Who run this Website. Thank you for providing more information than IBM does about what's going on at IBM. There is an Old saying about why pay for the cow when you can get the Milk for free. Lock the comments section DOWN for only Alliance members. The freeloaders, who will not join, will be first in line to reap any benefits gained if you ever achieve a unionized IBM. I am sure many of the freeloaders have the skills to create a bitch-and-whine-about-IBM-but-don't-really-do-anything-about-it website . Then the REAL organizers who have the guts to band together to make their lives better can share their thoughts without wading through the whiner-do- nothings-crybaby little comments. By the way. If you are a dues paying member post anything you want. It is after all your website; as you are paying for it. -Exodus 2007-
Alliance reply: Thanks for your support. A couple things will be taking place in the next month due to the lack of dues paying members: The Alliance will move to a less expensive office; webmaster hours will be cut; expenses at the office scaled back; and 1 staff position that was on loan will be gone permanently.
And yes, we will look at having some sections of this web site for members only. This is the ramification of not supporting the only organization that supports employees. We thank you for yours, Exodus 2007. We have been sent comments in regard to 'other' IBM employee web sites that allow managers to post there. We have not posted those comments for obvious reasons. Let the people, you describe, find those sites on their own
. It's most likely the most they will do.
Comment 5/04/08: Fooled and Misled - the program you're referring to is called "self-selection". It's on w3, just search for it. Managers are trained to make life so difficult for employees who are targeted that they get sick enough of the abuse and just quit. It's a formal management technique, and managers are trained on how to turn the screws. It's all part of managing people out of the business. So, IBM feels good about not firing you outright, and doesn't have to pay you anything since you quit. Somehow, that doesn't fall under the category of "respect for the individual", does it? Oh, right, this is the "new IBM". Sorry. -Seen it-
Comment 5/03/08: To wantapackage, This is a new management trend to abuse employees even more, thanks to the fact we aren't united. They use this technique to bully senior employees to leave without paying them a dime. I have a friend in the same situation whom I have persuaded to look at the Alliance. This week. He's been in the company 33-34 years, a Band 10 seller in GTS Americas services sales. He was advised by his manager that he was getting a 90 day performance package because he hadn't made his numbers in 4Q and 1Q. He stated this verbally, and the employee acknowledged it and told the manager he'd retire. They even agreed on a date, the first of May. The first of May came, and the package notice did not appear and worse yet, the manager didn't even show up on two conference calls that day with my friend that the manager had required he attend. My friend has decided that if they won't pay him severance to leave, he won't leave no matter what they throw at him. If he leaves without severance, he won't sign anything so he can walk over to a competitor the next day, who have already given him some offers. I don't understand the management of IBM anymore. They are out to screw any employee or customer that stands in their way and bend any laws or accounting rules they can get away with to fool the investors. No severance, no signatures and walk to your competitor for a job the next day. -Fooled and Misled-
Comment 5/02/08: I'm a current IBM employee in an odd situation. I found out months ago that my position was to be eliminated as part of a division's restructure. I actually want to be resource-actioned/given a package as many of my poorer performing peers have received over the years. I've been advised by a former manager never to request a package directly (I guess it's grounds for immediate dismissal), however my new manager has essentially indicated that there may be no packages offered per leadership meetings she's attended, ever, so my team mates and I have been encouraged to seek out and find another position within IBM. I just want to leave the company (I have another source of income). I certainly don't want to leave without getting a package (I've been at IBM long enough that we're talking about 26 weeks of pay which would be given up if I simply resigned). I definitely don't want to be given a new role within IBM which my manager has recently implied she will seek out for each of us. How should I proceed? Can IBM indeed stick me with a position for which I no longer can work from home with zero travel - to get me to resign? Can my IBM manager force me to take another position within the company at all? The whole situation just stinks as I truly sense the division leaders are going to try to stick it to me rather than just provide a package. Are they bluffing? Any advice? -wantapackage-
Alliance reply: Are you a member of the Alliance? Why should we continue to post these questions and answers from IBM employees who don't even support the organization that hosts this web site? To all posters: Times are changing for this web site. We have encouraged you all to join and the vast majority of you haven't. We are considering having these comment sections for the use of our members only.

Comment 5/01/08: Today, May 1st, the Malaysia Admin Hub went LIVE. And we should be happy about this. It was e-mailed out in the GLOBAL ADMIN (what a joke) newsletter as a big RAH RAH announcement. Um hello that is MY JOB. Rumor has it the majority of admin and admin managers have 2 years before their jobs are outsourced to India or some other"emerging" country. Funny though how Sam and the other SVP's will be keeping their 1-1 support - do as I say not as I do seems to be their motto. With the new Admin model of support all IBM is doing is creating mediocrity. -Disgusted @ IBM-
Comment 5/01/08: I don't know who initiated it but I believe more of the pressure came from BP to insource more of the work & then use cheap overseas labor for the rest. -tulsa_member-
Comment 5/01/08: Ref: -tulsa_member- BP is changing it's contract .......
IBM did it? Or BP finally got fed up and did it to IBM? How many other "deals" like that are in the works...? -Neal Watkins-

Comment 5/01/08: -Tulsa_member- Don't quote me on this, but I believe that when I was RA'd from IBM, I got 2 weeks pay for each year of service with a maximum of 26 weeks. In addition, you will get paid for your unused vacation time. So, if you have the option as my manager gave me, go back and change any vacation time taken to floating holidays where possible to maximize your last check. One other thing, they take taxes out of your final check, so that will reduce your total. -left_last_year-
Comment 4/30/08: Well, IBM did it. They announced today that BP is changing it's contract for finance & accounting outsourcing. They are going to"insource" jobs back to BP and send the remainder overseas. This will take place over a 3 year period and affect about 400 people. Now that we know the contract with BP will no longer be serviced by IBM America - they have talked about RA's for some. Can anyone tell me what a typical severance package looks like? Is it X pay for X years of service? Is it a kick in the rear and send you on your way? -tulsa_member-
Comment 4/30/08: Well, IBM did it. They announced today that BP is changing it's contract for finance & accounting outsourcing. They are going to"insource" jobs back to BP and send the remainder overseas. This will take place over a 3 year period and affect about 400 people. Now that we know the contract with BP will no longer be serviced by IBM America - they have talked about RA's for some. Can anyone tell me what a typical severance package looks like? Is it X pay for X years of service? Is it a kick in the rear and send you on your way? -tulsa_member-
Comment 4/29/08: lose. The only reason the blue pig announced these new jobs in Charlotte is because they feared a huge protest and were attempting to soften the impact In less then a year these new jobs will no longer be in existence. Lets get real, does the mortage industry need 600 more people processing loans while foreclosures are at an all time high and other similar facilities are laying off?.-blue&bitter-
Comment 4/29/08: .You forget, they take our jobs here as well, I'll take a bet they will be from India here on H-1b's that get those jobs!!!! -Anonymous-
Comment 4/29/08:  An Alliance and employment OPPORTUNITY with IBM in the United States of America; NOT India! -IBM_Adding_Jobs_In_NC-
Comment 4/25/08:  To: -india-outdia- Even working for a call center like for IBM is turning into living hell for many in India:,0,250022.story Of course IBM doesn't care about this. The India call centers are making Sam and the rest of the greedy IBM executive bastards more and more $$$ so there is no reason why IBM would try to do anything to help them. -Anonymous-
Comment 4/23/08: >> How does one know if you are on the RA list at IBM? If you are an employee (non-executive) working in the United States, then you *ARE* on the RA list - period. All that varies is whether your turn comes up next week, next month, next quarter, or in 2009. But your days are numbered.-Anonymous-
Comment 4/22/08:  When I was a kid, my mother used to scold me when I didn't finish my dinner and clean my plate. She'd say "There's starving kids in India that would eat that"... Nowadays, the kids in India are starving for a family life because their parents work nights at IBM call centers, and sleep all day... And when they eat at home, they say to their kids: "A kid in America would love to have what you have.. parents that have jobs!" -india-outdia-
Comment 4/22/08: I actually feel sorry for them. They have such a low standard of living outside the call centers its like the companies own them. How can they take their families back to squalor once they have seen a better life. Productivity must be down the toilet for IBM to pretend to care. I guess its harder for management to find the next sucker to run into the ground. Well, Gotta get back out with my sign. Will pull cables for food. GOOD LUCK TO ALL. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 4/22/08: How does one know if you are on the RA list at IBM? Is there a place to find out or is it hidden is some secret book somewhere and you only find out after it is too late ? :) -Fred Smith LOL-
Comment 4/22/08:  Another article about the Indian Call Center workers on the brink.,0,250022.story
"Counseling, at least outside the family, remains a fairly new phenomenon in India, however, though it is increasingly embraced by companies faced with high employee turnover, falling productivity and workers prone to make mistakes or break down in tears at work. Among the client companies listed on's Web site as receiving its counseling services are Dell International Services, IBM, Texas Instruments, Applied Materials and Motorola. The counseling agency said that by providing services, "the company gives a clear, practical indication of its concern for employee well-being." IBM? Concern for employee well-being? That's news to me -Anon-

Comment 4/20/08:  Dear RochFireball, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Being here for more than 27 years, I don't feel I am an employee to IBM anymore. I am a SLAVE to IBM. Slave is the right word period! My house chores and projects are way behind because I keep giving up my personal time to IBM to do extra work. I no longer can volunteer for local charities or do the community services. I regretfully accepted a laptop, next time I'll ask for a desktop computer so I can't do IBM work from home on weekends and vacation. They do expect us to spend a couple of hours at night when you are on vacation. Some of my IBM friends are smart enough to indicate in their AWAY message "I'm gone for fishing in Maine, no phone and internet access until I'm back in office". I'm not an IBM employee. I repeat I am an IBM slave. -From an IBM Slave-
Alliance reply: You are only a slave if you allow it.

Comment 4/19/08:  to RochFireball: right on regarding work-life integration in the 'new' IBM... it has gone so far away from reality that on the new Global Opportunity Marketplace (jobs site), 5-day per week travel is now referred to as a 75% level because you're home on weekends!!! -Anon-
Comment 4/19/08:  "A friend of mine who still works in Rochester tells me that IBM has dropped all pretense of 'work-life balance' and renamed the process 'work life integration', which is a slick way of saying the company expects you to give to the company 100% and find a way to 'fit the rest of your life in' after serving the company.-RochFireball-"
We had a VP of our business unit come speak to us last year, and tell us that, sure everyone was working long hours, but "no one ever promised you spare time". I've never before worked as a software developer where my employer "needed" my home phone number to be able to call at any time in case of an "emergency". Is this the norm in the software industry in the US these days?? I sure hope not. -irRational-

Comment 4/19/08:  TO: RochFireball Work life balance has always been a myth like all the rest of the IBM nonsense. I used to bring that phrase up to my manager all the time when I was working crazy hours and weekends. It got a smile out of him but no balance in my life. Since the spring is coming, I should remind everybody, spring time is cut time so get ready for another round. It's tradition at big blow. -RAd_man-
Comment 4/17/08: A friend of mine who still works in Rochester tells me that IBM has dropped all pretense of 'work-life balance' and renamed the process 'work life integration', which is a slick way of saying the company expects you to give to the company 100% and find a way to 'fit the rest of your life in' after serving the company. I had a sleazy aquaintance once who told me that 'his wife was married, but he wasn't'. It appears that IBM now has the same attitude. They expect you to be 'married' to them, but they have absolutely no loyalty to you. -RochFireball-
Comment 4/17/08: I have been in the position of “hiring” without being a manager. I defined the parameters of the job, such as responsibilities and required experience; and tested candidates on their technical knowledge (with the manager present). In some cases these tasks were carried out by a committee of non-management employees. This was done because my manager did not have the specific technical expertise to do it himself. Ultimately it was the manager who extended an offer or not. -American Siberia-
Comment 4/17/08: Can someone shed some light on when Brazil will be taking over most/all of the SA and DBA positions in IGS? Thanks! -Brazil is in the house?-
Comment 4/17/08: No, managers can not just hire people. They have to go through a staffing process and get approval, sometimes that approval has to come from very high up (VP level). First line Managers are basically the puppets for upper management's moronic decisions..-Nobody-
Comment 4/16/08: -Anon- Sam and Randy and all the other greedy Armonk "royalty" says there is no I/T talent in the US just so they can hire aborad and hire cheap labor just so they can continue to become more kingly. It's all a lie and until someone really challenges these greedy bastards it will only get worse. USA colleges and universities bestow honary dergrees on these morons when they have little regards of the American education system, particlarly in I/T education. It boggles the mind..but then again.. what is happening in this country will make it the next Roman Empire soon enough. -Samisasham-
Comment 4/16/08: Wouldn't someone who is hiring be a manager? As far as I know, only managers can offer jobs or hire and fire people. This is a union web site. Managers should not be posting here.. -Anonymous-
Comment 4/16/08: I keep hearing and reading that there aren't enough skilled IT people in the US and that is why jobs are going overseas. IT jobs are not the only jobs going off-shore so i don't get why the IT profession is getting slammed for not having the talent in the US. Because accounting jobs are going off-shore too, does that mean the US doesn't have enough qualified accountants? Because customer service jobs are being off-shored, does that mean we don't enough qualified customer service reps in the US? etc, etc. Anyway, get my point? Those saying these types of things are fools trying to justify their greedy decisions. What the US has little of are workers willing to work for $3 a day. That's the issue. Not the skill level. -Anon-
Comment 4/16/08:-hiring-: I'm not sure I get whether you are saying that there are plenty of high skills jobs here in the US; or that there are plenty of unskilled US workers that get paid too much money and their jobs are sent to India....? Judging by your vernacular, you could also be someone who came to this country to savor the job openings in IT for 'highly skilled' IT workers. Whatever you tried to explain; your argument is a classic example of what is wrong with the "not enough skilled IT workers in the US" reason to send jobs to "BRIC".   Let's review:
1. Offshoring IT workers to India is continuing to grow because IBM and other IT companies want cheap labor.
2. US Skills that come under the heading of "highly" are in plentiful supply. The number of US workers that have lost their jobs to offshoring will tell you that their skills are recognized as "high skills" within the US IT industry; which includes YEARS of experience.
3. Lower skills in IT have always been plentiful here in the US, since the early 1990's. When IBM and other companies found that "BRIC" could train for and duplicate those skills; those jobs were lost to "BRIC" because they were cheaper labor.
4. H-1b Visas are for Indian IT workers to come here and train for "higher skills". Why would they train for lower skilled jobs; when there are plenty of them already in India and the rest of the 'Global' business countries such as BRIC and Vietnam, Phillipines, etc.?
Globalism is an outgrowth of capitalism's need to expand......or it will flounder and fail.
If you keep telling a lie over and over; it can become what everyone believes... but that doesn't make it the truth. -livinintheusa-
Comment 4/15/08: Anonymous comments : "-hiring- Is referring to the jobs in India, NOT here..."
I don't quite understand what he meant by that, but could be:
1. He did not read the job posting carefully and read between the lines to figure it out that the job location is at SVL which is Silicon Valley Lab in San Jose, California, not in India.
2. He meant that these type of works are too hard or too easy that they are usually performed by IT persons in India. Usually my view is that those routine and structured works go to overseas but more complicated works are still stay here because they demand more sophisticated skills here in the U.S. The listed jobs in hiring's post are those more complicated and require advanced skills to perform. That was why in the beginning I said that "If your skills are up-to-date there are plenty of jobs out there, inside IBM". If you are performing those routine and structured works, look out, your jobs will be shipped out to India or China sooner than you realize it. Good luck folks! Don't say I do not warm you.
Comment 4/15/08: glad I quit working at IBM -Simon-
Comment 4/14/08: For those who try to imply that your able to get another job when you are RA's, you're wrong. It takes a second coming of J.C. to make it happen. I was highly rated and have had 2+ or 1 ratings ince I joined IBM 9 years ago. I was the dye in the wool idiot who believed if I worked hard and made a great name for myself I would be safe. I was able to hide underneath all of the rocks I needed to in the past rounds due to connections. I perform and have a great blend of needed skills (Tech and PM) I took a job with the transition team, who were desperately seeking tech / PM/ Transition experienced resources, which fit my skillset to a T. Three months after joining this team, they gutted the entire org. I was canned (May 31st) Even though they considered my skills redundant (LMAO) They kept extending me for months on end. I finally put my foot down and told them NO.. either crap or get off the pot. I had been looking internally for work for several months to NO avail. There were tons of ops at first, but with all of the other cuts, first lines took the 3 intial jobs I had offered. That was the first 30 days, after that, no one that I applied for either responded back or would extend an offer. You have to get released by the committee of VP's to get hired on. Your position is eliminated and the cost savings for that month's stock price realized. Once you have been labled, its over. Now they tried to keep extending my sentance at IBM over and over. so when I was interviewing, you dont have a firm start date when you can start at a new job.. they screw with you on this as well. They threatened that they would take my severance if I didnt continue to extend my stay. I threatended IBM with a lawsuit and they let me leave and keep my severance. I cannot recommend state strongly enough to everyone of my former IBM'er.. get out. Polish that resume and start looking whilst your on their dime. Dont feel guilty about it either. They will screw you in a New York Second. The writting is on the wall. Kramer was right. The sucking sound you are hearing is the IBM jobs leaving America for good. There is a special place in hell for IBM management BTW.. The job market is not that bad for skilled workers. IBM's name still has some credability in the market. I did get a lot of "I dont blame you for leaving" comments. Everyone knows just how bad IBM has become. IBM has passed the point of return. Its over. -X-IBM'er-
Comment 4/14/08: -hiring- Is referring to the jobs in India, NOT here... -Anonymous-
Comment 4/14/08: -hiring- give me a break how does one obtain such skills? These look like the flavor-of-the-month. Let us know how many of your applicants have a direct match of these acronyms on their resume. The mgrs usually want 4s or 5s for skill levels. -Whathiring?-
Comment 4/13/08: to -hiring- Obviously you don't understand IBM! While the job's bank or whatever it's called these days lists available jobs. Try getting one of those when you are added to the resource list. Once you are put on the resource list, it takes a VP to pull you off and make you available to new opportunities. Most of the talented workers that IBM is trying to attract with those postings fall into three catagories, 1) Those with real talent who have tired of IBM and went elsewhere - usually at a great increase in salary or work life balance. 2) Those who are unwilling to put up with the travel and relocation associated with new positions, 3) Those older talented employees that Sam and Randy have deemed expendable because of age and have resourced. When I was RA'd, any of these type jobs where I was qualified, my applications and requests were never responded to because I was on the resource list. Since then, I have found a position much better for my lifestyle and family. I would never be eligible nor would I want to return to IBM since I was deemed with an skill set that was unacceptable to IBM. BTW, I keep getting hiring requests from agencies for my old job. Several people have had it and couldn't do it and have walked away from the position. -RA'd bear-
Comment 4/11/08: To hiring: When are you gonna wake up? This company has nothing to do with your skills. Most that have been let go are extremely talented. Others wake up and smell the coffee and get out. That's why they are back peddling now and need to hire. Once those positions are moved to India they will be also let go. I suggest you also wake up and smell the coffee. -Maxwell_House-
Comment 4/11/08: Hiring- what the hell are you babbling about? -Anon-
Comment 4/11/08: More offshoring news. It was just announced Tuesday that all of the jobs on the IGS side of the Enterprise Business Information (EBI) organization would be moved to the Global Delivery Centers (GDC) in a two phased approach. First phase to be complete by mid-June, rest of the transition to be complete by 10/31. This includes pretty much every job left here in the US. On the two projects that I work closely with this affects approximately 40-50 people. And there are many other areas that are affected as well. I would say probably a couple hundred people total but I don't have exact numbers. The folks leaving will have to spend the next few months training their replacements and hoping to find jobs. Executive Leadership??? IBM Values???? Doesn't exist in this company. -it_never_stops-
Comment 4/11/08: Ordinary Man by Christy Moore

I'm an ordinary man, nothing special nothing grand I've had to work for everything I own
I never asked for a lot, I was happy with what I'd got
Enough to keep my family and my home
Now they say that times are hard and they've handed me my cards
They say there's not the work to go around
And when the whistle blows, the gates will finally close
Tonight they're going to shut this factory down
Then they'll tear it d-o-w-nI'm an ordinary man, nothing special nothing grand
I've had to work for everything I own
I never asked for a lot, I was happy with what I'd got
Enough to keep my family and my home
Now they say that times are hard and they've handed me my cards
They say there's not the work to go around
And when the whistle blows, the gates will finally close
Tonight they're going to shut this factory down
Then they'll tear it d-o-w-n

I never missed a day nor went on strike for better pay
For twenty years I served the best I could
Now with a handshake and a check it seems so easy to forget
Loyalty through the bad times and through good
The owner says he's sad to see that things have got so bad
But the captains of industry won't let him lose
He still drives a car and smokes his cigar
And still he takes his family on a cruise, he'll never lose

Well it seems to me such a cruel irony
He's richer now than ever he was before
Now my check is spent and I can't afford the rent
There's one law for the rich, one for the poor
Every day I've tried to salvage some of my pride
To find some work so I can pay my way
Oh but everywhere I go, the answer's always no
There's no work for anyone here today, no work today

And so condemned I stand, just an ordinary man
Like thousands beside me in the queue
I watch my darling wife trying to make the best of life
And Lord knows what the kids are going to do
Now that we are faced with this human waste
A generation cast aside
And as long as I live, I never will forgive
You've stripped me of my dignity and pride, you've stripped me bare
You've stripped me bare, you've stripped me bare. -Ordinary Man-

Comment 4/10/08: If your skills are up-to-date there are plenty of jobs out there, inside IBM:
I need to hire a number of talented people for my Core Banking Renovation Framework (CBRF) project asap and hope that you can recommend some talented folks. Specifically, I need to hire asap this month or by end of May latest where I need the team to be local to SVL and if the candidate is exceptional then will make a case for the relocation. Can you please help by forwarding the below as well as send me any candidates that come to your mind for me to followup with? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Note: Both job req links below are to the new IBM Global Opportunity Marketplace job tool that went into effect April 4, 2008 (old Job Bank sunsetted).

1 Technical Team Lead (intent to grow asap into the Technical Architect if person proves himself/herself). -- band 9 or 10 who has a proven track record of designing/developing/deploying core banking solutions employing IBM's SOA products/technologies (IFW, WBM, WID, WPS, WBSF, WESB, WMQ, RSA, RDA) and experienced with R&D on z/OS, Windows and Unix systems. Ideal but not required experience with IBM's Master Data Management products (WCC and WPC). Need to be able to quickly come up to speed with additional IBM/non-IBM technologies+products based upon core banking customers' needs. Proven track team lead track record (excellent technical skills, leadership skills, customer skills, communication (verbal+written), committed, reliable and teaming skills). Need to have aptitude to grow into Technical Architect position in the near term. Job requisition ==>

7+ Software Engineers -- band 7-9 with proven track record of of designing/developing/deploying solutions on IBM's SOA products/technologies (IFW, WBM, WID, WPS, WBSF, WESB, WMQ, RSA, RDA). Ideal but not required experience in: banking, IBM Master Data Management products (WCC and WPC). Experience with developing on z/OS ideal. Must be committed self-starters with ability to effectively interact with customers in this project's POCs to achieve success for IBM. Proven experience working effectively in teams to deliver timely on commitments, excellent technical skills, good attitude, good communication skills (verbal + written). Must be able to come up to speed on additional IBM/non-IBM technologies+products in support of the CBRF strategy/reference architecture as it evolves. Job requisition==>software engineering positions job req -- -hiring-

Comment 4/08/08:  to -alreadyGone- Sounds good. I will give it a try. I never thought of that. Your right. It does kind of stick in the craw and this would make it better.. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 4/08/08:  I have to admit that I am still surprised by the vast number of people here who seem to be equating that OT lawsuit with the 15% paycut - not the action itself (clearly related) but the individuals involved. I actually heard one coworker announce loudly that she thinks anyone who got money from the lawsuit should get their pay cut and no one else. People, your coworkers are not your enemies and they didn't sign a stupid form they got in the mail to personally screw you over and they didn't tie your hands behind your back to stop you from signing. To IBM, lawsuits are just a part of doing business. Whether you personally joined the suit or not really just does not freaking matter to them. They aren't looking at us as individuals. We are business assets, resources and commodities. Let's try looking at one another as people since they won't. The vast majority of us are just trying to do the best we can. I'm very tired of the attitude that if you got pizza money as recompense for years of being screwed over and actually had the temerity to sign a form and daydream that you might actually get a couple hundred to pay down a credit card that you deserve some sort of evil retribution. Stop acting surprised that some folks who signed didn't get cut and some folks who didn't sign did get cut. I sincerely believe that, on an individual level, the two just don't equate. Because we aren't individuals to them.. -Freedom Is Hard-
Comment 4/07/08:  To "Exodus 2007":  If it's been less than a year since you retired, you can still get your retirement gift . My manager also failed (out of ignorance, not malice, I think) to file all the right papers when I retired somewhat abruptly and voluntarily, but on good terms with the individuals in my reporting structure. I told my pension coordinator at ESC that I didn't get a retirement gift and she was able to look it up and verify that all the right forms weren't filed, and she then fixed it online. She told me the password, etc., over the phone, and I was able to order a gift. The point wasn't so much to get the gift, but to get rid of the feeling that I had been cheated. -alreadyGone-
Comment 4/07/08:  I can confirm while I was in LEAN meetigs last about this time, a LEAN manager confirmed a rumor that I had previously heard regarding 85% of resources being offshored when it is all said and done. Granted it has been a few years ago now, but I believe the target was 2008. -Used to be in the know-
Comment 4/07/08: to -gadfly-
I was one of the chosen ones to be slowly agonizingly surplussed over a year and a half to RICE-OH. My understanding is that some OEM printers like Zebra and Lexmark and others will still be serviced by IBM as the joint venture has no desire to support its competitors so some of the folks will still be working on printers. Refering to it as a launch is being generous.It looked more like a deliberate sinking to me so I retired . The printer folks leaving in most localities are already assigned to a printer only manager in their own branch. In my old locality they have already been locked out of IBM sub offices even though the transition does not occur till june 1. The one point they kept making on confrence calls is we would see the difference between working for a multi billion dollar business and working for a multi million dollar business. This was usually the answer if we asked about spending any money. As printer folks were getting bupkiss for raises already and no respect already it seemed a really good time to make my exodus. Just a shining example of the new IBM. As I chose to not have a retirement luncheon ( My quarter century was a lunchmeat tray in the office if I insisted on having one. because no money in the budget for printer folks that year) I also did not get retirement letters or a retirement gift. I was told they had done away with retirement gifts even though I knew they had not. Showed me how appreciated my 30 years including area specialist for the Series One were. Also showed me what a backstabbing liar and hypocrite the printer manager out of Richmond is. No problem though, Ill buy my own cheap clock for my mantle and tell folks to buy Xerox and Hp printers, anything BUT Ibm. tic toc tic toc. I guess this is what happens when you refuse to kiss anyones butt. Good luck to all. Hope the printer folks are smart enough to unionize right away in the new company. That would be GREAT. And the ONLY way they will stop their abuse.. -Exodus 2007-

Comment 4/06/08: It is your direct manager who decides who is RA'd from their group. Usually they will target you if:
- you're older than 45
- you're on the threshold of getting more DC pension or vacation
- you're performing better than your peers
- you've challenged their ideas or ethics
- you got a 2+ PBC rating from the manager above them because they
recognize your work
- you didn't a..kiss like your peers who work in the same city as
they do (you're in a different location)
- you actually got sick during the year for a day
- you don't buddy in the washrooms..-gadfly-

Comment 4/04/08: Does anyone have any insight into the impending IBM/Ricoh launch? It looks to me like we will have surplus people when the printer work load leaves.....Any input would be appreciated....-gadfly-
Comment 4/03/08: To Exodus 2007: Your right on! 100% right! Thanks for replying in this section and to me. I also advise others to give your post a serious read as well as sound advice! -offshoreIBMexecs-
Comment 4/02/08: I was told during the initial 'emergency' team meeting that I would not be moving to an hourly rate along with the 15% pay cut. I was relieved. I didn't take part in the lawsuit, however one of my coworkers did. About a week later I got a call from my manager - they had 'reevaluated' my position and I would be made hourly and receive the 15% paycut. Wow, what changed? I couldn't imagine - I figured they decided to implement the hourly plan 'across the board' for U.S. employees. Come to find out my coworker who opted in on the OT lawsuit got a nice pay out ($8000) and was never made an hourly worker. I anger and frustration expressed by almost every IBM'r I speak to is amazing, yet I was amazed to learn of the member numbers for the Alliance. I'm doing my best to spread the word. Thank you! -Anonymous-
Comment 4/02/08: To Exodus 2007 Thank you for the sound advice. I, too, had prepared for 15 years for retiring from the abuse. I took it quietly, head down, and got my personal affairs in order. True, the lifestyle that I have now is simple, but the stress is gone, and I am finally beginning to breathe and smile in the morning instead of crawling to my computer at 5:30 AM. I could not imagine myself working through my 60's at that pace (not that I would have been kept on). So, although I miss the fine folks that I have been privileged to encounter along the way, the sense of peace and freedom more than compensates. Thank you again. -Exodus 2006-
Comment 4/01/08: to -offshoreIBMexecs- Only one thing to learn,Once you get past the smell you've got it licked. If it smells like hair tonic its the back of the team leads head. I know, Dark humor only because its true. All skills that can be done somewhere else cheaper will be targeted. The best bet is to plan as if you are next. Financially and mentally. Best case it does not happen but you are prepared and not losing sleep worrying, worst case it does happen but you are prepared. Pay your 10 bucks a month to join the union, get all your coworkers to do the same and try to get a contract that will make planning easier. I was in the group where the first CE's ever to be layed off were. That was a warning to me and I planned as best I could because I had no way of knowing if I would be next. For the next 16 years or so I played it as safe as I could financially and now I'm retired with kids still in school. No way I could do this without that planning for the worst . House and cars are payed. Just taxes and insurance to pay etc etc. Does it mean sacrifices, sure, Instead of the cruise, join a pool club. Cheaper but longer term fun. Things like that. You will still worry but if you know you have done all you can to prepare you can draw a little comfort from that and not worry quite as much. Things like if you know a hit is coming, refinance your home for a longer term to lower monthly payment . You can still pay extra against principal in most states and pay it off in the same short term for the same cost but if you are job hunting a significantly lower MUST pay amount will keep a roof over your head longer. You can not do this AFTER you have been RA'd because you are then unemployed. so look into it Now . Its terrible to have to think this way but without a contract and the job security that goes along with it you really can't think any other way. Unless you are already wealthy that is. God Bless all who are affected in these terrible times. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 4/01/08: Bat, I know of two people in my unit who participated in the lawsuit who have not been laid off. I did not participate and have not been either. Caveat though, they are 1st line favorites. -Marbles-
Comment 3/31/08: To -BAT- I participated in the Rosenburg vs. IBM lawsuit as a class member and have not been laid off. Oh, yes, I was reclassified as non-exempt though. Also, I have been an Alliance member since the inception in 1999 and I also haven't been laid off. -sby_willie-
Comment 3/31/08: "Folks with cookie cutter type skills (and remember..IBM uses this term a lot differently than YOU do). such as Websphere, MQSeries, DB2, S/A AIX, NT, Solaris, Linux skills... You folks better learn something real quick because those are a few of the skills that are being targeted."
Gee, what do you suggest we learn now if one has been keeping up with the I/T technology? Powerpoint? Or "butt licking 101" ?.. which is not yet being offered as a course in academia as "Office Politics Logistics" as of yet. -offshoreIBMexecs-

Comment 3/31/08: To BAT: if they lay off all of the folks that participated in the OT lawsuit, they will only make them richer, since retaliation will almost certainly invite a 2nd lawsuit and this one could be a lot bigger. It's more likely that they will continue to offshore jobs and be mindful of who gets axed and who doesn't in order to avoid yet another lawsuit.. Speaking of which, can someone other than "Tai Mai Shue" confirm the 80- 85% target for 2008. That's pretty aggressive. Are the unix SAs in Brazil ready to take over the US customer base? -2008's gonna be ugly...-
Comment 3/31/08:  A video depicting the 2009 job market: -Sez_it_all-
Comment 3/30/08:  To Curious: It is 100% your local managers decision whom under them they will RA. Pay no attention to the excuse they tell you when you are in that room being told you are gone and why. They absolutely keep their favorite a** kissers and get rid of the non favorites. I've seen it a hundred times. I was let go because after a reorg my new manager, (I get a new one every year) didn't really know me and kept the people they knew for years reguardless of my hard work and knowledge of the customer. The a** kissers definately stay. It's best to just get out and find a real company to work for. Nobody should have to suck up to keep their job. -RA'd_2-
Comment 3/30/08:  I'm just curious. Is there anybody here that participated in the Rosenburg VS. IBM lawsuit that has not been laid off yet? -BAT-
Comment 3/28/08: "Therefore when it is all said and done with IBM will be just a bunch of butt kissers that can't get anything accomplished." They're already there. When all is said and done a lot gets said and nothing gets done. -too late-
Comment 3/28/08:  Ok...I have this from someone who is a 2nd line manager in IGS. It was off the record, learned it at a social gathering away from work. I have no reason to doubt this. IGS is aggressively targeting 80 - 85% goals for offshoring for 2008. IGS has given the customers the option of which services they can off-shore, but 80 - 85% MUST be off-shored in order to keep current prices in effect. Apparently, the large customers are very happy with what IBM is doing because IBM is throwing in some incentives that are just too good to pass up. So there will be rolling layoffs across IGS for the remainder of the year. Folks with cookie cutter type skills (and remember..IBM uses this term a lot differently than YOU do). such as Websphere, MQSeries, DB2, S/A AIX, NT, Solaris, Linux skills... You folks better learn something real quick because those are a few of the skills that are being targeted. -tai mai shue-
Comment 3/28/08:  In regards to who makes the layoff decisions: First, the bean counters work with Sammy boy and his cronies to review the financial health of the company. Sammy decides how much he wants to save for the upcoming year, then the bean counters in financial crunch the numbers for Sammy. Once they have the numbers, it begins to trickle down to the upper mgmt (directors and 3rd lines). Usually, the numbers are so steep, that the only way to make the goal for the year is to target employees. Older employees on average make more money and have some of the higher cost benefits vs. younger employees, so they target those folks first. You can't lay off every old-timer, so mgmt plays games and adds some of the younger workers to the mix. (Just so it looks good to the government). The 2nd and 1st line mgrs are the ones who have to make the decisions on who gets the boot. Usually, the first line mgr doesnt' have any more to say than which employee he has to let go, but the 2nd lines have to approve it, so if the 1st line wants to save someone, and the 2nd line mgr doesnt' agree. the 2nd line has the last say. -miss understanding-
Comment 3/28/08:  -curious- I've seen two resource actions now, and each of them swept out 1st line managers who had a reputation for speaking truth, to the irritation of their 2nd line bosses. The 1st lines who will speak about the current environment are heads-down and quiet, aware they're better off shutting up about anything and everything that doesn't match the party-line coming down from above. People in the trenches are the same. IBM is selecting for and getting a culture where people are afraid to speak unpleasant truth about things like schedules and quality, because doing so is often punished. Better for you as an individual to be a "team player", and pretend that reality is what the bosses say. -irRational-
Comment 3/27/08:  It does not matter who you are any longer. If you are tapped on the shoulder it is over. I was a 2+ performer with 20 years in the company. My customer could not believe this had happen. I was removed in June 2005 and it has not been easy, but I am still standing. -Removed_on_Birthday-
Comment 3/27/08:  -curious- The generally target older people, they make up the criteria as they go along (but beware if you were part of the overtime lawsuit), first line managers are generally part of the decision process and people who are good butt kissers generally get to keep their job. Therefore when it is all said and done with IBM will be just a bunch of butt kissers that can't get anything accomplished. -anonymous-
Comment 3/26/08: From what I've read in this newsgroup, people are being selected for RA regardless of their performance rating, skills, how hard they work or years of experience. Someone mentioned once you're selected, you're marked and they want you gone. So who is making the selection? And what criteria are they using? Is it the first line managers making the decision? And if so, are they selecting older people? Troublemakers?, etc? -curious-
Comment 3/25/08: This lady's book has nailed the problem. Based on the parts I have seen and the interview. I have not read the entire book yet, but I will.
2nd link
This is an interview with the author: Link -Rather Not Say-

Comment 3/24/08: To booted.. Let me know if you find a good employment lawyer in the Raleigh area as I am looking for one too. -got axed-
Comment 3/24/08: To WTF - They have been doing this for years. If you are RA'd you can pretty much forget it. 30 days to find another position? Extremely few people ever find that job in 30 days. I applied for 6 jobs when I was RA'd, well qualified for all, only got one rejection. The others didn't even bother to respond and my manager would not call anybody or even try to help me in any way. It's useless. You are marked and they want you gone. -gone_2-
Comment 3/21/08: OK - so the bastards are not only getting rid of people, but they are blocking any possiblity of finding another job in IBM. 3 jobs I posted for were suddenly withdrawn. Another person was offered a position but then that fell thru and not allowed to tell that person why. There is a special hole in hell where IBM Management will find their sorry asses. Good riddence - glad to be out of here! -WTF-
Comment 3/21/08: I am seeing incorrect information posted here on whether or not years of service at the outsourcing company counts towards your minimum "15 years of service" at age 55 for collecting FHA. I retired at age 55 with 10 years true blue service and 17 years at the outsourcing company (Lucent (AT&T)). I got my FHA. It all depends on the deal that was cut between the companies and how "sweet" they wanted to make it. .. -FamilyTree-
Comment 3/21/08: The way I understand the eligiblity to recieve your FHA is, you must be retirement eligible. That is 30 years regardless of age or 55 years old and at least 15 years in the business. I think there is a retirement eligiblity of 62 and 1 year in the business although that one I am not sure of. -Beat Up-
Comment 3/20/08: To -Set up ... If there are people who are not "utilizing proper time management," in other words, cheating on their time sheets, then I have no sympathy for them. And I personally do not think a union should try to protect them either. They are not good for the company or for the many IBMers who do follow the rules. -no sympathy-
Comment 3/20/08: To Gone From IBM - I found the following info on the FHA website. If you had at least 15 years of service with IBM (I don't think they count years with another company if you were outsourced), then you should have been eligible for FHA: "After you leave IBM, you are eligible to use the balance in your FHA if: You leave at or after you reach age 55 with at least 15 years of service or If you were at least 40 years old with one year of service on June 30, 1999, and if you leave with at least 30 years of service, regardless of your age." -IBM Slave-
Comment 3/19/08: To Gone From IBM - How many years of service did you have?. The FHA manual states that the funds become available once you have receached age 55 AND have at least 15 years of service with IBM (They don't count years from a previous employer if you were outsourced to IBM). If you were 59 and had 15+ years of service with IBM you should be eligible for the FHA. -Sick and Tired-
Comment 3/19/08:  If you are not 59 and are you are terminated you do not get your FHA money. I was terminated in 1/08 and found that out.. -GONE FROM IBM-
Comment 3/18/08:  Heads up at IBM East Fishkill NY.. Management is getting its head count reduction one by one .. Some people have been fired without prior notice for lacks instance of record retention keeping and / or failure following a business procedure or utilizing proper time management. -Set up ...-
Comment 3/17/08: FWIW - I agree with IBM Slave about the FHA eligibility - that's what I've heard and read, but I suppose getting it in print would be advisable.-bits-
Comment 3/17/08: SOA in India, compare what they are up to:;?articleID=181502939&pgno=2&queryText=#community

With this announcement: -Barb-

Comment 3/17/08: Thanks for comments to my FHA question. I am aware that the IBM info states that FHA credits can be terminated if employee leaves prior to prior retirement eligibility milestones; however, I was hoping that an RA package allowed terminated employees to keep the credits and use for future benefits. Has anybody seen RA package documentation that addresses FHA credits. If not I assume they are lost.. -jobcuts-
Comment 3/16/08: Excerpt from the Information Week post below: "IBM CEO Sam Palmisano"is making a double-down bet on SOA," says Sandy Carter, IBM's VP for SOA strategy. " I have one question: What ever become of Sammie's bet-the-company strategy for on demand computing. Perhaps another $15 billion buy back could move the stock 3 points, and perhaps the gain might stick this time. What a bunch of clowns.. -John-
Comment 3/16/08: To Jobcuts - I've seen two different answers to your qustion so far so I might as well give you a third. To my knowledge, you need to be 55 with 15 years of service in order to get the FHA money. -IBM Slave-
Comment 3/16/08: I am looking for a good employment lawyer in Raleigh,,, Does anyone know of a good one? -booted-
Comment 3/16/08:   IBM Eyes 50,000-Plus Indian Employees

Notice the familiar lie on page 2, about a dearth of US computer
science and engineers ... which I won't perpetuate by quoting here.


"..."We're moving all of that development to India," says Jeby
Cherian, head of IBM's new Global Solutions Delivery Center in
Bangalore. ..."

"... Consolidation In India
IBM (NYSE: IBM) says its existing delivery centers outside India
won't be closed but will be "remapped" into demo centers. "They will
become more customer facing," Cherian says. Still, IBM's decision to
put in India virtually all of the design and development of the
bundled solutions its consultants offer won't comfort U.S. workers who
hoped such high-end work wouldn't go abroad, at least not this
quickly. The company employs about 150,000 workers in the United
States but has quietly eliminated a number of domestic positions in
recent months. It has lowered its costs in global services, improving
gross margins about 3 percentage points last quarter, to 27.4%,
compared with a year ago. ..."

"... In Need Of Growth
IBM needs big ideas that drive software and consulting sales, not
just cost cutting from a lower-wage operation. But the SOA market is a
risky bet because companies, while keen on the concept, aren't
spending big money on it. They're doing one-off component-software
projects, but very few are creating an entire architecture based on it
that requires major investment. If they ever do embrace that "holistic
view," says David Grossman, an analyst at Thomas Weisel Partners,
IBM's broad portfolio of technologies and services give it an
advantage over more specialized vendors like BEA Systems and Systinet.
..." -- Same Old Story --

Comment 3/16/08:
"... IBM's transformation still impresses
Bolaji Ojo
EE Times
(03/11/2008 3:37 PM EDT)
I admit to being fascinated with IBM Corp. In fact, if this reads
like an ode to Big Blue, I'll gladly confess to being impressed by the
company's transformation over past years from its hardware origins
into a consulting, services and software enterprise. ..."

"... Even as Apple takes on Research in Motion's Blackberry in the
enterprise market, it should also be laying the foundation for growth
outside of hardware by increasing its offering of software and IT
consulting services. Everything else will be commoditized.

IBM saw this coming and gave up its PC business to China's Lenovo and
the hardware operation to Hitachi, which now wants to unload the
business. Lenovo can boast about its low-cost manufacturing
advantages, but nobody would say it is in the same league as IBM. ..."
-- Same Old Story --

Comment 3/16/08:

IBM's charming smile attracts Hitachi to 32nm research pact
Let's get small together
By Ashlee Vance in Mountain View
Published Monday 10th March 2008 23:14 GMT

When it comes to semiconductors, IBM is the friendliest vendor in town.

The hardware maker has announced a deal with Hitachi to share costs
and expertise around researching techniques for manufacturing very
small chips. The agreement marks the first time IBM and Hitachi have
teamed up on semiconductors work. IBM, however, has similar
partnerships in place with AMD, Chartered, Infineon, Samsung, Sony,
Toshiba, Freescale, STMicroelectronics and any other company not named

Specifically, IBM and Hitachi will tackle 32nm production techniques
over a two-year period.

As the vendors tell it, most of the shared magic will take place at
IBM's Watson Research Center and the College of Nanoscale Science and
Engineering, which are both located in New York.

The researchers "will use new methods that include the latest
technologies to analyze semiconductor devices and structures in order
to improve the characterization and measurement of transistor
variation - as well as to develop a better understanding of device

Intel has already moved to 45nm, and the rest of the chip world is
following. The 32nm gear should start trickling out in 2009 and then
become more available in 2010.

It looks as if Intel will be battling just about the entire world at
32nm. Semiconductor manufactures have partnered in various ways to try
and offset both rising fabrication costs and Intel's muscle in the
chip game. ®

-- Same Old Story --
Comment 3/16/08:  "Can anybody tell me if the RA package allows employee to keep the Future Health Account (FHA)?"
Jobcuts: it depends on your age when you are RA'ed. If you at least 50 years old with 10 years of IBM employment or more the time of being RA'ed you should be able to get the full FHA value. Please understand the FHA is a NOTIONAL account: no real money is set aside in it by IBM. IBM can choose to take whatever account funds in it away at any time. IBM makes no promises regarding the future of the FHA. With a union contract we can get a better retirement health account and benefits than the present FHA offers. -sby_willie-
Comment 3/15/08:  to: -jobcuts- Nope. The FHA account balance reverts back to IBM unless you are retirement eligble and age'd 59 1/2 or older.-RA'd bear-
Comment 3/15/08:  Open your eyes mrmx. The only reason Gates wants what he wants has nothing to do with hiring all their employees from the same 'culture.' Companies want to hire labor at lower cost. If there is a problem
with the gene pool then it is at the level of CEO managment that puts short term profit ahead of long term vision. -OpenYourEyes-

Comment 3/15/08:  "Should 08As be pushing for the rebanding/15% pay cut to avoid a bigger cut later?"
Curious, are you sane? NO PAY CUTS PERIOD IBM!!
! -curiouser-
Comment 3/14/08: NSSO, RTP, NC: Major layoffs recently. Also, SSG hammered with layoffs. If you are in support at the NSSO or SSG (or anywhere at RTP), your days are now numbered..another round is coming soon to clean up. Just rumor I heard from a good source -John Doe-
Comment 3/14/08: Can anybody tell me if the RA package allows employee to keep the Future Health Account (FHA)? -jobcuts-
Comment 3/13/08: "Microsoft is no different, in that Bill Gates is championing this movement. No amount of math or reading courses will change that strategy one iota. It is a race to the bottom and it is stoppable only by the alternative of collective bargaining and unified workers".
Google surprised Microsoft by using probability to create a search engine experience which wasn't matchable although Microsoft famously thought that a search engine could be built without it; however, if you go to MSDN, you'll probably agree that Microsoft's result was poor. Anyway, before I left (or got layed off from) IBM, I was in the middle of a spat between global services and their manufacturing operation; i.e. global services wanted to take over their AIX administration duties. I also met a lot of folks who supposedly configured Lotus Notes all day long. To me, if that were my job, I'd rather be flipping burgers! Now however, with my current job, I've had the opportunity to take more EE and Math courses and I've grown my skills. Had I stayed with IBM global services, I'd probably still be working at the AIX help desk helping people fix their mouse problems or help people trim down their AIX installations. Honestly, I think a great national labor law would require 4 to 8 hours a week of enrichment, something that Google does I think. I wouldn't have said this but multiple business owners have told me that South Koreans, for example, are math whizzes. And, indeed, as I've started to put more math into my software engineering, I've gotten more accolades too! So I'm convinced that being "economically irrelevant" just doesn't cut it at the bargaining table. And, yes, I understand that highly skilled labor gets laid off. However, maybe this is OK since, in France, the next generation engaged in riots since there weren't any job opportunities open. Thus, perhaps unions could help folks, with top skills, start their own companies and let the corporate shops, like IBM, be incubators? i.e. I sort of viewed my time at "big corporations" as time for incubation. The reason why I agree with Bill Gates about immigration is that companies don't want a mono culture and, if they hire all their employees from the same culture, the gene pool would be poor.  -mrmx-
Comment 3/13/08: Curious if anyone has heard any more rumors on the 08A salary cuts? I saw a posting here awhile back stating that the plan was 20-30% pay cuts for 08As. Should 08As be pushing for the rebanding/15% pay cut to avoid a bigger cut later? Thanks  -Curious-
Alliance reply: 08A's should be saying NO pay cuts! Why hand anything back to IBM?

Comment 3/12/08: irRational - An IBM Buddy List is SameTime!!  -The Catboid-
Comment 3/12/08: Loved it, read in the WSJ Blog:
IBM: The New Walmart -*** BOHICA ***-

Comment 3/12/08: This begs the question; "How can they possibly lack the skills; if they have to train the people that replace them?"
I will say that, as a k/12 student teacher, it was eye opening to see how poor the math skills were in the classroom and-- more recently, I took a few EE courses and met many undergrads who didn't enjoy reading or math. Anyway, a few years back, I was an IBM subcontractor and thus I believe that a lot of IBM jobs can be transferred since they were neither difficult nor mission critical. Anyway, for unionization to succede, employees need to-- on the side I think, continually read and do math problems!
Alliance Reply: Your experience is, no doubt, valid; But the larger point is that already Skilled and long -term experienced IT workers in IBM and elsewhere are being dumped for cheap labor. IBM in particular is throwing away talent that got IBM where they are and could potentially take them where they want to go. Microsoft is no different, in that Bill Gates
is championing this movement. No amount of math or reading courses will change that strategy one iota. It is a race to the bottom and it is stoppable only by the alternative of collective bargaining and unified workers. Corporate Global is leveling the paying field alright; they're bulldozing people's lives to put up a parking lot.
Comment 3/12/08: Regarding LEAN, why hasn't IBM LEANed the huge amount of low hanging fruit of excess and waste at corporate? Seems stupid (and selfish) to keep cutting jobs that deliver services and value to external customers while corporate continues to waste resources building "kingdoms" for executive power trips.Too bad we can't throw the bums out! -Frank-
Comment 3/12/08: Guys:Lean has started in Dublin, Ireland. We expect cuts in next 6 months. Any info or advice pls.. -cisco-
Comment 3/11/08: Am I the only one who reads something like this:
and needs to do a 'Howard Dean' scream. How frustrating to read this garbage when there are hundreds of thousands of computer software people in this country who cannot find a job. This is the greatest corporate scam of all time! -married_to_ibm-

Alliance reply: You hit the bullseye. The biggest scam and biggest lie that Gates, IBM, and corporate influenced gov't reps continue to preach is that IT workers in the USA are lacking skills and are not 'competitive' within the industry. Alliance@IBM has been saying this since day one. It is evident that for Globalism to work; USA workers must be treated like their exploited other-world counterparts. Simple as that. Politicicans from both political parties continue to promote this scam and lie; while garnering support for their election or re-election. The ONLY way to beat this is for workers to organize and work for a contract that protects their jobs from random firings and training their 'other-world' replacements. This begs the question; "How can they possibly lack the skills; if they have to train the people that replace them?". IBMer's need to wake up in a hurry and decide to fight back, as a unified force. Alliance@IBM can facilitate that fight, but we can't do it for you.
Comment 3/11/08: OfferPackages: IBM tried this several times in the semi-distant past (before Gerstner? I can't remember clearly that far back). The talented top performers who could easily find jobs in other companies would take the offer. IBM sort of shot themselves in the foot due to a self-induced brain drain. By selectively RA'ing people, IBM does not entice talent to jump ship. I agree it destroys morale, though. -stormy weather-
Comment 3/11/08: NotNobody, what's an "IBM buddylist"? -irRational-
Comment 3/11/08: To Nobody: Try adding to your IBM buddylist. It shows up like a person but it's a bot you can query for all those crazy acronyms. If you type in "what is bric", just as if you were having a conversation with someone, it returns: "(Buzz) Definitions Found
(1) Brazil Russia India China." Long address: WhatIs Bot/Southbury/Contr/IBM@IBMUS
Comment 3/10/08: Anyone know any info about upcoming cuts in Canada? My usual 'contacts' know nothing but I have seen H.R and LEAN Managers meeting in our building for the last few weeks. -DM-
Comment 3/10/08: To -insider-. Thank you for the info on the layoffs. I would ask, though, that you define GBS, ITD, COTS and BRIC. Some of us who haven't been with IBM that long have no idea what these are. -nobody-
Comment 3/10/08: insider: how are the May job cuts any different than what we see EVERY quarter? Heck, there were job cuts just last week!. -member-
Comment 3/10/08: Does the May layoff rumor include the Printer Repairmen being terminated to go to Infoprint solutions?. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 3/10/08: What people need to realize is that some people set the example; that the only way to survive in this company is to constantly be up the managers butt. The real way to survive in companies like this is to UNIONIZE. Every company has a goodenough and it's not a good example to follow. -NG_Man-
Comment 3/09/08: Its been confirmed that there will be another huge layoff in May. Expect the same approach as last May with two rounds. Inital numbers are somwhere in the 400 to mid 500's in each round. GBS and ITD will be the target. Focus will be on the 06A and a smaller percentage in the 08A families They are working the numbers for the following month / quarter as well. This will be the norm until the vast majority of the higher paying jobs are COTS over to BRIC -insider-
Comment 3/09/08: I don't see the point in one slave criticizing another slave for ducking the whip. Regarding those who have jumped on others, in-fighting doesn't get the job done. It certainly is hard for anyone to figure how best to navigate this mess. Not everyone finds throwing themselves under the bus, the best way to go. Stay together on this folks. -just an observer-
Comment 3/07/08: We can't work like this. I moved out of Global services 2 years ago and its busy where I am now. You have to get out of services, and continue to UNIONIZE. It's the only way to show this company you can't treat people like trash. -Anon2-
Comment 3/07/08: I know someone hit by an RA today. This person does software support in ITDelivery. His job is being outsourced to China. He has been given 30 days notice.. -Anonymous-
Comment 3/06/08: "I too was on the AZ account but I've stuck very close to my manager who is heading up lean and he was able to warn me off in time to get out and onto another account". Thanks for proving what most have been saying here for a long time. Although a better way to phrase your sentence would be that you stuck very close up your managers butt. Unfortunately, there isn't enough room up there for everybody right? Hard working people should not have to be up their managers butt in order to keep their jobs. But that is the way it is at this BS company. To the folks with pride who don't feel comfortable kissing someone's A@$ just for the sake of possibly keeping your job, stay strong, get out as soon as you can. Life is better outside this evil company.. -anon-
Comment 3/05/08: I too was on the AZ account but I've stuck very close to my manager who is heading up lean and he was able to warn me off in time to get out and onto another account. To survive in the new IBM ya gotta know somebody or you get canned. -Anonymous-
Comment 3/05/08: Interesting thing about this "overseas" garbage - Did you know that all the U.S. IBM Executive Helpdesk calls still come to the U.S. ??? Even though "IBM Internal", which supports all IBM users, has been overseas for some time now? Why is India, etc., good enough for the "common" employees, but not acceptable for the money-grubbers? Heaven forbid the EXECUTIVES have to deal with a foreigner! They still get to speak with Americans. What's good for the goose is good for the gander... and Sam should be tarred and feathered to look like that gander. I agree with "fedup", try him for treason.. -Penniless-
Comment 3/05/08: RA's are being offered 1 week paid for every full 6-months employed (for up to 26 weeks paid maximum), Yes, they will pay the same amount for insurances and you pay the same (including dental, life, health) for a specified time frame depending on your years of service (>10 = 12 months, and I think 1-10 years is 6 months, and <1 year is 3 months - but i may be wrong on the years). Also, they are offering $2500 retraining reimbursement, as well as career assistance, etc. -Anonymous-
Comment 3/05/08: OfferPackages: IBM is TOO CHEAP AND TOO GREEDY to offer a voluntary resource package. It's more "competitive" for IBM if you just quit. Then they save even more money. With doing continued stock buy backs costing billions of stockholder dollars (recent one was $15,000,000,000), IBM can't afford ANY voluntary packages for mere disposable workabee resources :) -Sam_a_Sham-
Comment 3/05/08: I have been on the AZ acct for 7 years - On Feb 1 we got a note that said "Happy 7th Anniversary", by the 28th we got a call that said - see ya! We don't need ya! How disheartening. How many of us are stockholders? Has anyone else thought of sending a letter to be read at the stockholders meeting on April 29th? Does anyone at the Alliance know how that works? I feel like I busted my behind for these people for 7 years and because of some stupid ass 2nd line manager who thinks they will get a bonus - we are gone. When this all goes into the crapper I'm praying to have a nice stress-free job somewhere else so I can sit back and laugh! -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: The stockholder meeting is tightly controlled and very little dissent is allowed. Just getting to speak, outside the proxy presenters, is very difficult. Besides, the stockholders only care about 1 thing--is the stock price going up. Employees who are stockholders are a very small percentage. We would suggest you write the letter and we can put it on the Alliance web site. More people will see it.

Comment 3/04/08:
To those of you being offered a package -- can you post the details here?
1 wk / year to 13 wks?
2 wk / year to 26 wks?
any COBRA assistance?
any "retraining" assistance? It may help others affected! Tks! -package_what_package-

Alliance reply:   We'll post it if we get any information. However, it seems unlikely that IBM is even offering packages that what you have heard?
Comment 3/04/08: Good luck and God Bless all the families affected by the latest corporate greed. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 3/03/08: I work for ISC, Customer Fulfillment and we lost 67 people between Atlanta and Raleigh in an RA announced 2/29. We can try to find a job within IBM if we want; but we all know this is a waste of time. -forkyouibm-
Comment 3/03/08: OfferPackages: They don't want you to have an actual choice. If they offer a package, the employee can choose to stick it out or take it and go. If they RA just the exact folks they want gone, then you are gone. No choice. I mean, it's not like you're going to find a replacement gig in IBM. -PackageThis-
Comment 3/03/08: does NOT care about moral. There is no incentive for them to even be fair. It's as simple as they don't have to. -headed4thePitts-
Comment 3/03/08: I have been working for EUS for almost 7 years as tech support for the Astra Zeneca account. Last Thursday, the remaining IBMers on the account were all put on the Resource Action list. We are being replaced by a desk in Hydrabaad. What makes it worse is, Astra Zeneca recently purchased a company called Meddimmune. Our management is currently at Meddimmune in Maryland learning the account. All of the CCI CONTRACTORS currently on the AZ desk were offered extensions to work on the Meddimmune account through August..while all the IBMers were let go and not offered a chance to stay on through the summer. -Anonymous-
Comment 3/02/08: If anybody in HR, including Mr. Randy McDonald, had one ounce of common sense they would be offering voluntary packages instead of decimating the U.S. employees. Moral is at an all time low. Wouldn't it make more sense to make an offer? There are lots of people who would go willingly. -OfferPackages-
Comment 3/01/08: Just got told by my manager that if I don't make my numbers by end of Q1, I'm RA'd. Everyone in GTS Sales (BDE, ITSM, SSL) that was a "3" for 2007 gets canned via performance plan and serverance choice if not at 125% of quota (if you can figure out what your quota and your territory is) by end of Q1. Directive from HR. -GTS Saleslady-
Comment 3/01/08: For the benefit of us old retired guys, what is 08A? -Relic-
Alliance reply: 08A represents a
Job family code in IBM. One title asscociated with 08A is "project manager"; which does NOT mean management per se. It means managing projects, not people.
Comment 2/29/08: Just informed by my friend in Seattle that he and 6 others on his team have been RA'd. All 08A family... -RA'd-
Comment 2/29/08: 12 project managers let go. Various locations Boulder and Chicago. More rumors going on about rebanding 08A family as well. We have heard it from internal sources and on this board. At least those who are RA'd will get a severance package. Sad but true its becoming better to be gone from this living hell. -shame on sam-
Comment 2/29/08: More job cuts this week. If these jobs are being sent overseas Sam Palmisano should be tried for treason. -fedup-
Comment 2/29/08: I was the victim of a resource action yesterday. I will be out the door March 31st if I don't find something internal (slim chance of that). I work in Global Services as a xxxxxxxxx Div xxxxxx. I am the only one I know of in my department that was targeted. I am a Work-at-home employee attached to Poughkeepsie. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/28/08: I received a call from my first line to inform me about the resource action and that our team would be affected. It's sad because everyone is already working overtime from the last time our headcount
was reduced. We work hard and are awarded with pay cuts or resource actions so we work harder. IBM will spend 15 billion dollars to raise earnings per share by 5 cents (which is really just subsidizing their huge stock option compensation to upper management) but they are divesting in their employees and infrastructure.. -Anonymous-

Comment 2/28/08: STG is having a resource action of 100 people today. 30 days to find a job or out March 31. z announcement teams were effected. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/28/08: An IBMer in IGS/ITG told me today that their manager called today to say there is a resource action going on now but no one from their team was affected.. -sucking_sound-
Alliance reply: This comment was sent to general visitor comments, and we moved it here, where it's more relevant.

Comment 2/28/08: There is no such thing as location anymore. Most all of us work from home and we are spread all over the US and beyond. These RA's are happening in ITD, delivery...that I know of. -just1waiting-
Alliance reply: We agree; However, knowing the city, state area is still important to us, for obvious reasons.

Comment 2/28/08: I'm located here in Lexington, got my 30 day notice this morning. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/28/08: Resource Actions happening today. I have no other information right now. -just1waiting-
Alliance reply: Please tell us your location.
Comment 2/27/08: Could we move the discussion on reclassification and pay cuts to the"Raise & Salary" section? We seem to have moved this board away from Job Cuts. -Anon-
Alliance reply: We agree. Everyone please move these discussions on stock, reclassifications, etc to Raise and Salary or General Visitor Comments sections. Thank you.
Comment 2/27/08: Well, yes, alot of IBMers own IBM stock but the the percentage of shares held is quite miniscule. Even the executives stockholdings are rather small. But the institution investors are the ones to convince that IBM needs the Alliance. They hold the real clout. I don't think a stockholder proposal to ask for a salary cut for IBM executives is plausible since IBM can say executive pay is "normal business operations" and this would easily allow IBM to nix any stockholder resolution as a petition and would be upheld by the SEC if challenged. I've been to many stockholder meetings , co-sponsored proposals and even sponsored a proposal last year, and the games IBM plays to downplay and defeat all stockholder proposals is what they earnestly like to do.. -sby_willie-
Comment 2/27/08: I'm all for the buy backs and inflating the stock prices. This is good for us stock holders and maybe I'll sell of some for a new car. The investors will love this. -big blue-
Comment 2/27/08: Most IBM employees own IBM stock. We all need to stick together as IBM shareholders and call for an across the board salary cut for IBM executives! This should be a resolution at the next IBM shareholders meeting and we need to get involved by joining Alliance and making the press informed of IBM's ill deeds. -IBMStockster-
Comment 2/26/08: The executives are planning to fatten their wallets after the stock rises following that $15B buyback. Watch the insider trading. -Sick of it-
Comment 2/26/08: My immediate "team" is 4 IBM'ers and a contractor. All 4 of the regulars were affected by the pay cut. Got a note from one of the regulars that he's leaving. found out today that it wasn't by choice. Also found out that the team lead interviewed 3 people from Brazil. Wonder which of the 3 of us regulars will be next? -no hope-
Comment 2/25/08: The IBM senior executives have discovered that in order for IBM to be competative, they either need to cut executive bonuses or employee salaries. As they are the only ones with a say, guess which option they chose! Its just like Congress. I do not remember them ever voting down a payraise for themselves. Get a seat at the table and a say in salary. Live better work union. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 2/25/08:  You know, today starts the 4th week of this pay cut BS. Not only was it a slap in the face the way they went about it; It is also insulting the way I am now treated. I have never in my career here been a clock watcher, but I AM NOW! I am beginning to like that I get a lunch away from my desk; that I can make plans with my family in the evenings, and that my weekends are mine. Sure the 15% hurt in the wallet and I have adjusted . Now I am not sure if I want to return to unlimited overtime at no extra pay. -*** BOHICA ***-
Comment 2/25/08:  I stated this when it first started. The intention is to cut folks by 25%.. and as high as 35% The next group will be the 08A folks, they will see the same effort on rebanding them. It's not any brighter for folks in my level or group. I have spent years at this company and watched painfully, as they have literally screwed the very ones that are the backbone of this company. It's the select few in upper management that are causing all of this as well. As one famous female of the group has stated to the ranks, "It will be like putting a square peg into a round hole. Keep POUNDING until it fits". There is a drive to make the books look very good. They have been working with a consortium based in India for selling Global. Dont expect the fear mongering to stop when we sell either. The new group will look to levelset FTE expenses with what it pays in other countries.. cost of living is not a factor. I am close to my retirement so I am putting in my time. I am sorry for those that are affected. The pay cuts are looking at an average of 26% now, versus the 32% that what the average prior. Select few didnt comprehend the billing factor (snicker), as far as legal exposure. They made money hand over fist when the bill over aprox 48.00 because your salary is covered at that point, the rest is cream to pull off the table into the books at 100% Best wishes to everyone -insider-
Comment 2/24/08:  Hey.... If you have been working 50 - 60 ... 80 hours per week to get the work done and been reclassified to hourly ... and now IBM is caught between having to:
1) Pay you 150% or more of your prior salary
2) Tell the customer things are in the toilet
3) Admit their "mistake" and reclassify you as exempt
I think they take "door #3" if this is a long-term contract. Try this: REFUSE to be reclassified.... see what happens next????
Comment 2/24/08: "REFUSE the INVITATION" Yeah, right. Since when is there management by "invitation."? Refuse and they can invite you out the door. You have no power. You can not win. -Realist-
Alliance reply: You can win if you stand up as a group. Organize and build power. It works.

Comment 2/23/08: Something Smells in HR: What a pacifist. Why not give IBM HR and legal hell? IBM will cut your OT. You can bet your last penny they will. Maybe they will cut your pay more than 15% now. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/23/08: -*** BOHICA *: According to RM from what I heard from the Boulder meeting: back pay for those folks that have their classification HR reviewed and "overturned" back to exempt from non-exempt will not get any back pay lost when the 15% base pay cut was in affected. So those folks who get their classification changed back to exempt do lose money, especially if they didn't work the OT. Any person on AWS or FWS (alternate work schedule or flexible work schedule working less than 40- hours) would lose money even with a reversal. Yeah, IBM "pay remix".. Add it to "cost neutral" that is another favorite IBM spin word that's been around since the late 90's.. in short, these buzz words they use are DECEPTIONS and LIES. IBM: it's a PAY CUT , even in this case albeit temporarily. Why don't you come clean about it? -Anonymous-
Comment 2/23/08: "If the current situation wil benefit you, ie you work over 5 hrs OT on average, do the smart thing and REFUSE the INVITATION"
Sounds reasonable but we are not dealing with a reasonable IBM here. See *** BOHICA *** comment on 2/22/08. IBM then could proceed in the near future to cut your pay some more (>15%) since you refused to submit to the HR and legal (re)classification review that was called so you then have no recourse whatsoever. Unless you have a union contract. -recastify-

Comment 2/22/08: These re-classification meetings are an interesting development.

They may be triggered by a legal audit exposure that HR forgot. It's a SOX violation (as well as fraud in many states) to bill more hours than an hourly employee gets paid. Since they've cut a lot of hours, so have billings. This must have hurt the financial numbers and outlook for revenue generation in the quarter.

First of all, you don't have to attend unless you are directed by your line management IN WRITING to attend. You can't be accused of insubordination for not attending if your P/A holding manager has not formally directed you to attend. You don't report to HR or to legal and they can't force you to do anything. They can only force something if they have found you are doing something illegal and the action must be altered or stopped.

Second of all, if an IBM attorney attends, then in some states you have the right to legal representation if the attorney is present and performing as an attorney. You also don't have to sign any documents unless you have time to review them. Make sure if they are legal documents that there is a notary there as well (another witness) that is not beholde n or representing one of the parties (IBM). Don't fall for them asking you to sign and "we'll get a notary later". In some states that's illegal. Tell that to the attorney's face. Ask the attorney "Do you as a member of the state bar agree that a notary is not required to be present to witness this document?" and that'll get them thinking.

If this is an internal meeting not directed by management, you can also ask for a recording device since a lawyer will be present. A loose interpretation of the BCG forces you to document any potentially illegal activities that management may direct you to perform.

I refused to attend my re-classification meeting. My response stated that I'd be happy to attend if I was allowed my legal representation of if I was allowed to videotape the meeting. I'm not in a hurry to be re-classified again. -Something Smells in HR-

Comment 2/22/08: Whoa...!!! Considering these reclassification interviews. What IF this is just another ploy to recoup $$$'s from the settlement. I'd be VERY VERY CAUTIOUS that HR & Legal intend and agree to restore your FULL salary to what it was before the reclassification. Otherwise you may find yourself working at your current non-exempt salary as an exempt employee with unlimited FREE overtime??? And...that might just make you mad enough to quit !!! Hmmm part of the big plan? Maybe ??? -*** BOHICA ***-
Comment 2/22/08: How's life for the folks pushed over to at&t? -A Resourced Employee-
Comment 2/22/08: -30Yrs@BigBlue-15%- ----- why not keep them on their toes, invest a little bit of money and bring an employment attorney with you to the meeting? Then you'll have someone on your side & they'll be less likely to gang up on you. -tulsa_member-
Alliance reply: You can not bring an outside attorney to an internal IBM meeting. All the more reason for union representation.
Comment 2/22/08: My manager said I should be contacted by HR about this as well. Just wanted to throw in my opinion. Management claims the 15% reduction is not intended to save money. The fact they are now looking to review everybody? and possibly re-classify them sort of tells me HR/IBM is saying "oh crap, we're actually losing money on this decision". Something in my gut tells me that if you have a history of CLAIMing more than the estimated 5 hours of OT a week, you may get re-reclassified just so IBM doesn't have to "overpay" employees now. -anonymous10years-
Comment 2/22/08: TO: -30Yrs@BigBlue-15%- >>> If the current situation wil benefit you, ie you work over 5 hrs OT on average, do the smart thing and REFUSE the INVITATION and collect more money via OT; If you are over 30 years your OLD retirement plan is FROZEN at its max already. You should simply put as much as you can into the new 401K PLUS, using the ROTH options preferrably and go on cruise control. If they then want to BUY you OUT to leave, take that money Plus your OLD Retirement payout + the money in your 401K account and ENJOY life, as I am doing. as an IBM RETIREE. . The Health plan costs are an hard kick in the butt though. -no-ky-
Comment 2/21/08: To: -30Yrs@BigBlue-15%- Yeah Get odds 'ey 3:1?
I got that email too. I think they realize they crapped in their mess kit estimating the avg OT at 5/hrs per week. Some of us were putting in 50-60 hour weeks just to get the job done, now that they are having to pay it to get the job done. Its well over the 15% pay cut. -Mark 5 9-

Comment 2/21/08: 30Yrs@BigBlue-15%- Wrote:"Just received an invitation from HR to review my reclassification. reps, "
With 30 years@BigBlue, what are you still doing there? Isn't it time to leave? -Curious-

Comment 2/21/08: Just received an invitation from HR to review my reclassification. They want a meeting in person (face to face) and will have on their side - 2 HR Reps and assistance from Legal. Wonder who will be on my side? I bet not even my manager.. just the employee verses 3-4 HR/Legal reps, -30Yrs@BigBlue-15%-
Alliance reply: All the more reason for union representation. Then you would be able to have someone in your corner at the meeting.

Comment 2/19/08: Don't think that HR is going to help you. Going to them for any of this is an exercise in futility. HR is only interested in protecting the company from you, they are not there to protect you from the company. -IBM no more-
Comment 2/19/08: In reply to my post on Job Cuts and General Comments of 02/19, someone said they want to talk to me. Please provide me with a name and email address and I will contact you directly....... -*** BOHICA ***-
Alliance reply: Thank you. Please contact our National Coordinator, Lee Conrad at this email:

Comment 2/19/08: Way to go !!! -*** BOHICA ***-
Alliance reply: Thank you. Due to the nature and content of your entire message; we can't post the remainder of your message; However, we WOULD like to talk you by email. Please contact us using our contact link. Leave your email and name. We will reply. All correspondence will be confidential. We have some questions for you, too. Thanks for your support.

Comment 2/17/08: Standby Time. Because my manager can't organize his employees, I've been providing primary on-call support for 4 of his accounts for the platform I support. Now, page-outs have been few and far between, but when the come through, I addressed them within the required time frame. Since the reclassification, I inquired about standby time. He said I was not to submit standby time (he did not say I was not eligible). His "main" support team (that has a more structured on-call rotation) gets to reap the benefits of standby time where I do not?? Every day I think about this I'm more and more tempted to go to HR about it. I have emails and Sametime transcripts from him documenting my position as well his statement(s) stating to not submit standby time. Just wondering if anybody has any experience with this type of thing and can offer any advice. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/17/08: About comment from WormIBM dated 2/13/08 that: "I'd rather die than train someone from China to take my job." Better get used to it. We have weekly calls with China. It's not good that our company is turning over technology to China and Russia with a new Cold War brewing, as reported on CNN last night. -Anon-
Comment 2/15/08: Read this on the Alliance work that needs to be done: -unionyes-
Comment 2/15/08: It seems to me that the Alliance numbers show you haven't been growing over the year. Why?-pro-union-
Alliance reply: We are in the same situation that many other unions are. We lose members and supporters as the company sheds employees and when employees retire. Many members have also quit IBM to go to other companies. A lot of our base came into the Alliance during the pension fight and also are no longer with IBM. As anyone who has worked in IBM knows there has been a concerted effort to force US employees out of IBM and that impacts us as well.

Comment 2/15/08: Based on my discussions with various employees there seems to be an overwelming majority that do not support unions so to get 45-50K people to sign up seems like a major hill to climb. How long has the alliance been tring to get people to sign up and only have 6k worth of signatures. It seems if people are dissatisfied they just leave for another job/company. -Big Blue-
Alliance reply: "If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, want crops without plowing the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand.. It never did and never will..." --Fredrick Douglass--
Comment 2/14/08: To my fellow Kentucky IBMers: Please contact Senator McConnell and voice YOUR opinion on the recent paycuts, training our replacements, offshoring of Kentucky jobs, and how his wife runs the National Labor Board. Let him know whether or not you support him as he supports Sam Palmisano and the like. Personally, I think the populist have it right this election cycle. It's time to fire a shot over the bow and force change. Bully them back! P.S. Hello Owen Cropper! -Anon-
Comment 2/14/08: Below is IBM’s view of Offshoring three years ago, straight from the head of HR. You can bet they feel much bolder now, considering the weak resistance from IBMers and our willingness to be bullied. It is this simple: If IBM wants to Operate in this country, then they NEED us. As –gadfly—has pointed out, can you imagine the impact on hospitals, airports, government agencies, military installations and Wal Mart cash registers without support from dedicated IBMers? The time to stand up is now! WE hold the power—not the Armonkies. See for yourself what Tom Lynch, Current Director of Global Employee Relations had to say on the subject: "Offshoring Challenges," these are really some of the things that make this a difficult issue for us to have to deal with. In the 90s, manufacturing went offshore, in the US and throughout much of the world, the economy was pretty robust during that period of time. We're currently in an economy that is anemic as, ah, to use one term to describe it. The economy certainly is less robust than it was a decade ago and to move jobs in that environment is going to create more challenges for the re-absorption of the people who are displaced. US workers or workers in a country where the work is being relocated from, will, in many cases, be asked to train their replacements. That's going to raise a lot of tensions as you're training someone to do a job that you know is no longer going to be yours at the end of some fixed period of time. -STC in Tuscan-
Comment 2/14/08: If you are having trouble getting your bill collectors to accept 15 percent less and the bank won't lend you money based on potential earnings then isn't it time to unionize? Cry havok and let loose the dogs of war.-Exodus 2007-
Comment 2/14/08: Ok, if I did my math right, we have about 125,000 eligible US employees, 6000 of which are already eligible for a union vote. For the NLRB to take us seriously we need 50% +1 membership or 62,501 members. That means we are 56,501 members away from our goal! Folks show you care. We can do much better than this. JOIN JOIN JOIN, before it's too late to JOIN!.   -*** BOHICA ***-
Alliance reply: You did your math correctly. One assumption is a bit high. 125,000 includes managers, vendors, and partners. If you subtract out those groups, for argument's sake, the remainder would be about 45,000 instead of 56,501...very roughly. (Quote from our membership page: "Active employees, contractors, temporary employees (such as those in Manpower who work for IBM), and retirees are eligible to join. *Exempt* (salaried) employees are eligible! Sorry, no managers.) At any rate, it is a large number. However, if every member could get 5 people to sign up......
Comment 2/14/08: Response to Alliance reply to my post 2/14: Alliance, I think you inadvertently do a grave injustice to the cause when you quote the total number of 6000. I am sure that everyone's support is greatly appreciated, but we must drive up the numbers of  "voting members". Those that are Associate members and subscribers need to join the ranks so that their opinions can be counted and their support measured. If I am wrong in this, maybe I am completely wrong in this? -*** BOHICA ***-
Alliance reply: To clarify--Voting members are the backbone of the Alliance and have specific rights as well as CWA sponsored benefits in the local. Associate members and subscribers are counted as supporters. All catagories (current employees only) contribute towards the number needed for a Union vote. All catagories are listened to and we value the input of everyone. You are absolutely right that we need to drive up the number of voting members. Also we feel that IBMers need to know how big the Alliance is. The number of members can escalate dramatically if employees have the will to join. Then you will see power and balance inside IBM for employees. It is time. No more fence sitting.

Comment 2/14/08: Response to -JD- 2/14 Post: JD, I think it goes much much deeper than the Corporate bottom line. I think what we are seeing here is nothing less than the most corrupt of individual greed. IBM is making a fair and reasonable profit. The share holders are making a fair and reasonable return on their investments. The Executives are the one's reaping in the bounty at the expense of ALL others..   -*** BOHICA ***-
Comment 2/14/08: I don’t get it folks? Membership costs just over 33 cents a day! You can’t buy a cup of coffee or even a bottle of water for less than 3 times that. Sure, we’ve all been hit hard by the 15% pay cut, not only financially but indignantly. My manager spouts his given line, that, I am of the same value to IBM that I was before the pay cut. Why then don’t I feel that way? Maybe, because I am not treated that way! Why are there only some 435+ members out of all of us that read and post here? Do you think for one minute that management will make it better? If you do, just look at the recent history behind you. I know there are thousands of you out there, sitting on the fence, wanting to join, but hesitating because you hope this will get better or at least level off on its own. Well that just is not going to happen, at least not until there are none of us left employed.
I beg you to join us. Give it a year. That is just a measly $120 (less than dinner for two at some fancy restaurant). The more that join, the more that will join in the cause, as they see our numbers grow stronger. If after the year you are still not satisfied cancel your membership and drop out, because if we don’t do something we may not be here in another year! PLEASE THINK ABOUT IT !!!.   -*** BOHICA ***-
Alliance reply: Thanks for your support. Our total membership including members, associate members and subscribers is 6000. We need to build the Alliance into a strong force to challenge IBM. The recent pay cuts are not the last. We have an average of 50,000 visits a month to the web site. We need everyone who comes here to join the Alliance.

Comment 2/14/08: It seems to reason that if IBM mgmt. thought they had to deal with possible unionized American workers, that more outsourcing would be imminent. All this company cares about anymore is the bottom line. -JD-
Comment 2/13/08: Capitalism and greed caused this mess we're in. We have gotten to the point in this country where money matters more than people. Everything is a capitalistic endeavor, even things that shouldn't be, like hospitals. America has sold it's soul to the devil, we've sowed the seeds of our own destruction. Now we're reaping the disaster that is offshoring sowed by the fortune 500 to boost the bottom line. Wake up America, it's time to start caring about your middle class and working people again."The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope." ~Karl Marx -monroe transfer-
Comment 2/13/08: Why should IBMers organize? Let's take it straight from Harry Newman, IBM Director of Employee Relations (retired):
"There is a dignity issue, you know, those of us who track union campaigns realize that unions rarely have success saying you need to unionize to get more money. Issues like dignity and justice and fairness, those sort of gut sort of issues tend to raise or strike an emotional chord after which the money issues, pay and benefits issues can come in, but the dignity of being told that it's not that your job is going away it's just that's it's moving and you're going to be put out of work as a result of that. It certainly raises those kind of dignity issues."
Folks, the executives are on a mission. They are not turning back of their own free will. But if they want to do business in the U.S., they will have to listen to us under a union contract. We have been bullied long enough. How much more are you willing to take and for how much longer?
Comment 2/13/08: My post regarding the article about what GM is doing and how it applies to what IBM is doing was not meant to be analyzed from a bean counters perspective. We have enough bean counters. The point I was making is the BIG PICTURE folks. The motivation is for corporations like these to rid themselves of the American worker and send the jobs overseas or rehire the positions at a much lower salary. The BIG PICTURE FOLKS. THE BIG PICTURE. -Anon-
Comment 2/13/08: Folks, I think it's time to send a real time st.valentine wish to S.A.M this time, in 4 waves: -stvalentine_1-
Alliance reply: The Alliance looked at the 4 waves and decided we could not post 3 of them.
We can not advocate or condone sabotage or any other activities that disrupts the customer or IBM.
While we certainly understand the outrage and anger among employees, our goal is to organize IBM employees through legal means (your 4th wave). While some activities, like sickouts are concerted activity and covered under labor law, it would have to be a mass sickout to have any impact and send a message to IBM. We don't believe the mass of employees are ready for this. Could it happen at a selected and important IBM location? Sure, but it needs to be well organized (not by comments on our message board) and a majority of employees must opt in.
Other actions like "work to rule" (just follow the process to the letter) are legal as well because what you are doing is following IBM directions. This eats up a lot of time, especially if you are training your offshore replacement. There are options that can be more effective and legal.

Comment 2/13/08: It is disgusting the way IBM treats Americans. Americans invented IBM, not today's IBM Jr. executives and managers that have no loyalty to the USA, let alone your family! I'd rather die than train someone from China to take my job... Let the smart ass managers and executives do the training... oh, they can't, they don't know how to do the very jobs they sell off... These tapeworms need to be flushed out of IBM and the USA! Let worm IBM and rid our company of the tapeworms sucking us dry! To worm IBM, join Alliance@IBM for starters! Then think of forming your own services guild and force fair pay and benefits out of IBM...IBM is us, the one that produce products and services not the tapeworms! -WormIBM-
Comment 2/13/08: " The Armonkies have been losing sleep over Unionization for over a year." Really? Losing sleep? I don't think so, and I don't know why they would. The "plan" has been going quite well and IBM'ers show little signs of effectively organizing. All you have to do is follow this site to hear repeated examples of the actions & abuses management has inflicted. And, the actions have become so common that media has apparently lost interest in reporting the latest. From an labor organization perspective, I think we had a Sametime slow down for a few minutes last year. Whoopie. -Realist-
Comment 2/12/08: Don't think for one minute IBM isn't in the process of doing the very same thing GM is doing as described in the article link below. -anon-
Except that ibm hasn't the elegence to offer a reasonable buyout, they just fire people behind the guise of a Resource Action -rtpscrewedibmer-

Alliance Reply: You are correct, -rtpscrewedibmer- But don't forget that the GM workers are union members (UAW), and their contract and agreement with the company included clauses for this kind of thing; or it was negotiated later on. Either way, the GM workers got the options written into their contract. If IBM workers finally organize, and build a union that negotiates with IBM; those kinds of altenatives could be built into their contract as well. It's up to the IBM workers to decide. With these meetings being held by IBM execs, IBM workers may just have that opportunity!
Comment 2/12/08: The Armonkies have been losing sleep over Unionization for over a year. Check out this March excerpt from a NY Times Article covering an HR conference call that was leaked:
In the hourlong I.B.M. conference call, which took place in March, the company's executives were particularly worried that the trend could spur unionization efforts.
''Governments are going to find that they're fairly limited as to what they can do, so unionizing becomes an attractive option,'' Mr. Lynch said on the recording. ''You can see some of the fairly appealing arguments they're making as to why employees need to do some things like organizing to help fight this.'' "The I.B.M. executives also warned that when workers from China come to the United States to learn to do technology jobs now being done here, some American employees might grow enraged about being forced to train the foreign workers who might ultimately take away their jobs." -John-
Alliance reply: It sounds like you're referring to this audio conversation of Tom Lynch and Harry Newman, that was broadcast, internal to IBM in 2003... IBM may have been "losing sleep" over this for a lot longer than 1 or two years.... Here's our link to the conversation:
BTW.. Someone sent that transcript to the New York Times; after we had posted it on our web site, in June or July of 2003.
Comment 2/12/08: rtps : The way the GM action looks it is a "buy out" where the employee takes a check and leaves . No pension , no benefits just go. Doesn't the IBM RA package give you some $'s based on years served and allows you to pull your 401. Plus you get COBRA until you get a nother job. And if you are able to retire you still get $'s for years served and can draw pension if you are old enough and have years served. So unless I'm not understanding it I think the IBM deal is better. So am I reading this right? Looking at the $75K-$140K this is not even 1 years salary for most. With no health insurance you'll burn that up quickly if you have problems....-John-
Comment 2/12/08: Don't think for one minute IBM isn't in the process of doing the very same thing GM is doing as described in the article link below. -anon-
Comment 2/11/08: GBS AIS - got a note last week from AIS management - they are removing PDM role in AIS and asking tech resources to do people management also. Got call from PDM today. He is asked to find another job in 30 days or else. Awaiting who will be my 1st line manager now !! -Anonymous in RTP-
Comment 2/11/08: To -*** BOHICA ***- Management tells CE's that they agreed to callouts when they were hired. As those rebanded did not then no standby pay, No availability. And organize yer butts off ! Do not allow them to force the kind of abuse on you that they have done to CE's for years. If you do it will only get worse for you. They will never hire enough people if you cover for them. They do not care if they wake your family up all night. They do not care if your spouse leaves you because of it. They do not care if you die of a heart attack. because some other sucker can be forced to do your work just like you are being forced. Organize and bend Sammy over for once. I like all IBMers from my generation distrusted Unions untill I realized they are my co workers. My buddies who are getting the shaft right next to me. When me and my team stick together against what is wrong and unfair in our workplace we are a union. How can that be a bad thing? God bless all in these trying times. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 2/11/08: Stand-by Pay: Just heard this from management. Backup on-call will not get Stand-by, as they are not restricted in movement. If Primary is getting Stand-by pay and does NOT respond within 15 min of page, possible (likely?) disciplinary action will be taken. Falsification of records... -*** BOHICA ***-
Alliance reply: Doesn't that kind of nastiness sound like a good reason to organize?
Comment 2/11/08: "Does anyone know if the people in Fishkill were actually layed off or were they told that they had 30-60 days to find another job or they will be layed off." Either let go or put on the "30 or 60 day death march" in IBM is roughly the same thing: you are for most cases gone...finished..history. It's also not a layoff. It is a termination: a firing. A layoff means you might be brought back when your former job is needed again. A recall of ex-IBM employees to fill their former positions? This doesn't exist in IBM. Only a small percentage on the 30 or 60 day thing find or line up another IBM position despite what IBM wants everyone to believe. -anonymous-
Comment 2/11/08: Does anyone know if the people in Fishkill were actually layed off or were they told that they had 30-60 days to find another job or they will be layed off. If that is the case then that is why no one has notified the paper. I guess when production needs drop there is no other alternative than to just let the people go. Tough world. -big blue-
Comment 2/8/08: If the Poughkeepsie Journal is influenced by IBM regarding the recent 154 firings at the IBM East Fishkill site why not also contact the Time Herald Record at or call the Breaking news hot line 845-346-3200 for a unbiased news report. -Media Coverage-
Alliance reply: It has been our experience that no newspaper will print the story without confirmation by IBM or their employees. We have said it before: if you want to get the news out you MUST call the paper, tell them about the job cuts and tell them who you are (and ask to be anonymous).

Comment 2/8/08: Maybe the Poughkeepsie Journal should do a story about the corrupt contempt IBM has for their communities and the public in general, inferred from IBM going out of their way to hide or spin information. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/8/08: The Poughkeepsie Journal has not received any calls from employees on the latest firings at EF. How do you expect them to write anything if employees don't come forward? -Alliance-
Comment 2/8/08: Still nothing in the Poughkeepsie Journal today about the 150 people or so in EFK/POK Mid Hudson Valley, NY that were let go. If so, the print is either too small or it is buried in today's paper. Why IBM isn't being available to tell the Poughkeepse Journal is news in itself. Do you think IBM has told the Poughkeepsie Journal it will pull it's advertising from the newspaper if they release these latest permanent"drive by" firings. Maybe IBM was not happy how the reclassifications and 15% pay cuts have been reported since it is clear IBM wanted to keep this action hushed. -IBM MHVer-
Alliance Reply: The POK Journal may be waiting for IBM to respond. If they don't respond or have 'no comment', then the paper will print the story. This kind of thing has occurred previously. Stay tuned.
Comment 2/7/08: So how many of you Fishkill workers actually called the Journal and told them about the cuts? If none of you did how do expect them to know? -worker-
Comment 2/6/08: Why hasn't the news of the 150 people who were fired last night at IBM East Fishkill NY mentioned in the Pougkeepsie NY Journal today? -Been Surplus-
Alliance reply: We sent the news of job cuts in EF yesterday to the Poughkeepsie Journal and talked to a reporter. They have to get confirmation from IBM before they can put iit in the newspaper.

Comment 2/6/08: Out of sheer curiosity, does anyone know what's going on over at the Rochester, NY datacenter? If you're not aware, that's an outsourcing datacenter and there are (or were) lots of tech support folks on various platforms supporting outsourcing customers, both hosted there and remotely supported. Any news?? -Mistressofthei5-

Comment 2/6/08: East Fishkill employees had an All Hands meetings this week and the news is that 154 people are going to get layed off in the MLC area. I have gone to numerous meeting like this and all we are given is lies. We were told that the manpower people are going to be used as a buffer in the event of layoffs and would be the first to go, however that has been a big lie since all I see are hard working IBM'ers losing there jobs. Now the company wonders why there is no employee loyalty???? Why don't they start laying off the hundreds of Vice Presidents that are in the company making $200k a year. These lazy asses don't do a damn thing to begin with. Start laying off the multiple layers of management that IBM thrives on and said that they reduced in the big 1993 layoff. There are more layers of management now then there even was. Oh and to you Julius in East Fishkill when you said "It's only 154 jobs" which angered me because try explaining to those 154 people that there services are no longer needed. Hard working men and women who have families to take care of. You are just as cold and heartless as all of the other IBM exec's. Just remember what comes around, goes around... -Anonymous-
Comment 2/6/08: I too agree with "-Anon is right-" I also see our choices as the following. If there are other options, please list them.
1- Unionize
2-Stay and quit complaining
3-Get off your butt and get a new job
. -agree with anon-
Comment 2/6/08: OK the NY and Vt MLC areas were hit this week for 105 employees. There were 30 mfg types in EF and 50 mfg types in BTV with the other 25 coming from eng and support areas. This was based on reduced need for their products and no other area needing people. -Big Blue-
Comment 2/5/08: To -screwed by sam- Sounds like you have been screwed by IBM along the way to feel the way you do. But there are departments and jobs in IBM where things are better. Maybe you should talk to your manager about transferring into another department or if that isn't a possibility, see if you can get a job with another company. -sorry to hear-
Comment 2/5/08: To all Kentucky IBMers: Drop a note to Mitch McConnell's office and let him know what you think about the paycuts and voice your opinion of how his wife runs the National Labor Relations Board. Dialing the Labor Board back to center would be an excellent reason to vote Democrat this election cycle. Time to fire a shot over the bow. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/5/08: My situation might be different from the majority on here who are from the US (I'm in Canada). But believe me, IBM is IBM anywhere you go; and that means the most brutal employer you could ever hope to wish upon your enemies. Anyway, just thought I'd share that without much difficulty, I found a contract position paying a bit better than what I received at IBM, even though the new position was much more junior. Recently I moved into a much more challenging position with an excellent employer (full-time, benefits, proper OT, etc.) paying more than $20K base more than what I made at IBM. Trust me, if you feel nervous about your position at IBM, your gut is probably right. Start looking and bail now. Your mental health will thank you later. Good luck to you all. -NeverBeenBetter-
Comment 2/5/08: screwed by sam wrote " 8A Family is now being targeted. 7 PM's RA'd. Rumor has it that COTS - Rebanding will take place next quarter. They are going to split the ranks like the 24A family. The pay cuts will be in the 25% range."
Is this action in PM family 8A taking place under the newly reorganized PM Organization headed now by Ron Atkins and his deputy Bill Evans? Information without jeopardizing your identity would be helpful. Thanks. -another IBM serial#-

Comment 2/5/08: Looking over Anon's post, this person left valuable clues as to who they work for.
1- a competitor of IBM,
2- the company made more many than IBM, SUN, EMC and a few others combined last year.
All you have to do is remember the headlines from late last year to find out who this person works for. This person works for HP, because it is the only company that meets those two requirements. As to why this person is still visiting this board, lots of former IBM employees visit here. They all try to tell you that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and it is true, it is. I agree with this person though, people on this site are lazy. All I see here is people complaining that they are losing their jobs, but nobody is really doing much other than that. there are two things that can be done here,
1-unionize, which will help your situation if you decide to stay and keep taking the reping you are getting,
2- leave and get another job. Leaving will get you higher salaries, plus when everyone leaves IBM will be in such a mess they will not be able to recover. So as I see it, there are 3 options here
1- Unionize
2-Stay and quit
3-Get off your butt and get a new job. -Anon is right-

Comment 2/5/08: IBM has a new outsourcing datacenter in India. Now we know where future jobs are gonna go. Whodathunkit? -Mistressofthei5-
Comment 2/5/08: 8A Family is now being targeted. 7 PM's RA'd. Rumor has it that COTS - Rebanding will take place next quarter. They are going to split the ranks like the 24A family. The pay cuts will be in the 25% range. Band 9's will remain exempt and over worked. I can confirm that a hand ful of folks that I know in 24A had their pay reduced by 25%, not 15%, with the dangling carrot (phallic) of OT to make it up. The OT offer is pure BS as they are keeping the band 8's as fodder for OT because they were not rebanded Substanial reductions in each quarter going forward. Notice that there has NOT been any major signing announced? Notice that upper management is NOT rallying the troops like back a few years ago? Notice that rumor control is very very limited from management. THEY CONDONE this miserable work environment as a way to force folks out. Global Services as a whole is not worth the effort / returns that are generated. We have to many divisions competing with each other. There has been a concerted effort to realign, with poor results (project sydney)Its easier to spin off groups and departments due to the new drive for more profits with little overhead. The forced attrition is the drive to weaken our moral even more so when we get hit with the news that we are being sold, most FTE's will have split. You can look to the high performers and high band members who have left ibm in droves. Talent is and will continue to flee this year. Look for 4th qtr / 1st qtr 09 for GS being sold to our indian competitor wipro and ? they will team the companies up in a partnership to buy GS. AS always, management will provide KY for those who need it -screwed by sam-
Comment 2/5/08: Layoffs starting at EF, MLC. Feb 5. anyone hear anything else. Rumors have it there will be a few here, a few there. IBM dosen't want bad publicity. Targeting higher paid bands and those with many years service. They are also letting people they want to 'save' move to other areas. What a joke! -EFK-
Comment 2/5/08: ibm starting layoffs in east fishkill.being called in groups of 2 to 3 employees.more updates to follow... -Anonymous-
Comment 2/5/08: As an "extremely alienated professional" I found the following article very interesting. This is a very sad state of affairs: -married_to_ibm-
Comment 2/5/08: hi - I'm not the official anon but here's my experience. I have a middleware/WAS/Apache/Unix sort of skill set. When I was removed from ibm boulder last may, I left to go to a local contract company. The prevailing bill rate for my skills in the area is 45-55$/hr - which is an ~aprox 50% raise from IBM rates. it probably all depends on what position you left, what skills you left with, and what the regional demand for those skills are. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/4/08: Someone asked, "I read a post here stating that there will be additional pay cuts coming that are in the 25% to 35% range." I doubt if anyone here would know that. But if it happens and if money was very important for my job satisfaction, then I'll leave. It was my choice to work at IBM just as it is my choice to leave. And just because I decided to work at IBM doesn't mean IBM is forced to keep me. So if they want to force me out by cutting my salary, that's fine. I've got plenty of skills to find another job elsewhere. But I have a lot of freedom to do what I want, I have a great manager and work from home which are also important when it comes to job satisfaction. -programmer-
Comment 2/4/08: Just heard that more cuts are coming around May in the 25-35% range. Can someone confirm if this is across the board, those that weren't part of the 15% cut? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. -still curious...-
Comment 2/4/08: "Because of my current companies policies, I can't directly say who I work for now." I am skeptical of this, too. Lots of people claim to have left IBM and received large raises, but they never say which companies they joined. And when you ask them (on this board), you never receive a reply. With today's job market, even a lateral move in salary would be a blessing. So, to the folks who claim to have received big raises by moving, I challenge you to name your new company. What do you have to risk? This is completely anonymous. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/4/08: "Because of my current companies policies, I can't directly say who I work for now." I am skeptical of this, too. Lots of people claim to have left IBM and received large raises, but they never say which companies they joined. And when you ask them (on this board), you never receive a reply. With today's job market, even a lateral move in salary would be a blessing. So, to the folks who claim to have received big raises by moving, I challenge you to name your new company. What do you have to risk? This is completely anonymous. -Anonymous-
Comment 2/3/08: IBM dismisses 700 freshers in India:
KOLKATA: This may literally be a bolt from Big Blue! IBM is learnt to have delivered the pink slip to a sizeable chunk of its entry-level trainee programmers (ELTPs) across major offices in India. Most of these ELTPs, who were engineering graduates, had put in nearly a year and were working in numerous technology practice groups under IBM India’s global delivery business. Though IBM is silent on the actual number of ELTPs dismissed, the total is likely to be in excess of 700 across company locations nationally, including 180-odd in Kolkata alone. ELTPs, who were essentially freshers, were asked to go based on their performance in aptitude tests that were recently conducted in undisclosed IBM India locations. It is learnt that action on the ELTP front in major IBM locations was an ultra hush-hush exercise about which many senior IBM managers were in the dark. At present, the IBM India management is reluctant to go into the details of its latest HR exercise. But in a written response to ET’s email query, an IBM spokesperson said, “IBM is driven by a high-performance culture, a place where employees are able to contribute at the upper limits of their potential and continually build market-valued skills and capabilities in both formal training and experiential learning. In support of that expectation on the part of our workforce, we are pioneering new ways for our people to certify their skill levels as both a validation of their value to clients and to reinforce the quality of our employees’ personal skill sets.” IBM has strongly refuted any possible link in the latest action on the ELTP front, with industry speculation about IBM’s global services business suffering a cash loss in India in 2007.
Also Read:
Citigroup to cut 400 jobs in UK; India to follow.
Wage gap between UAE and Indian salaries on a decline
Global majors prefer experienced candidates over novices
Indian employees to get highest salary hike in 2008
TCS, Infosys, Wipro add over 57000 workers in 2007
Sarkozy calls on 'friend' Mittal to explain job losses
“Last quarter marked IBM’s strongest revenue and profit performance in almost a decade, with a revenue of $28.9 billion and cash of $16.1 billion globally. Key to this success was IBM’s services business performance and momentum in emerging markets, including India, which represents one-third the company’s global revenue,” the spokesperson said. “India is at the heart of IBM’s services strategy which has grown from a 53,000-employee organisation in 2006 to 73,000 in 2007. We continue to hire people with skills that meet our client needs and business demands,” the spokesperson added. But IBM declined to respond to ET’s other query on whether the company needed to keep state governments in the loop ahead of kicking off the ELTP action. The West Bengal government said it was clueless about the development. The state IT secretary Siddharth said, “I am not aware of these developments at IBM. But this is strictly a company decision, a matter between employer and employee. After all, when they hire people, they don’t inform us, so they are not obliged to tell us if they dismiss people. State governments usually get involved when a company decides to shut down operations.” Under its present executive management grid, IBM India has six global delivery centres in Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, Pune, Gurgaon and Kolkata. All location heads report to Rajesh Nambiar, vice-president (global delivery) for IBM India. Read More... -Anon-
Comment 2/3/08: Big Blue Hands 700 ‘Fresher’ Indian Engineers Pink Slips
Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 Research Triangle Park — IBM’s full-throttle drive to hire thousands of tech workers across India has hit a major speed bump. Some 700 first-year engineers, or “freshers,” have received pink slips after they apparently failed to measure up to Big Blue’s standards, The Economic Times of India reported Saturday... -WhatGoesAroundComesAround-

Comment 2/3/08: I will not pay you to afford your house... I will not pay you enough to feed a mouse... You will not have a job by end of year, I do it because I can... I dont like US workers, SamEyeAm.... Wake Up Folks!!! Love, The new AT&T employees you shafted! -SamEyeAm-
Comment 2/3/08: "Let's all stand together and tell them "NO"! I don't understand,
we outnumber them. Why are we afraid?"
Tell them "NO" to what? Pay cuts? Why do you think that would do any good? It's not like we work in a democracy. Without a union, we have zero bargaining power. -iRrational-
Comment 2/2/08: IBM is getting backlash in India dismissing new Engineers to fail to score well enough on their competency tests. Found this article on my local news site: -Anonymous-

Comment 2/2/08: WOW, India business model not working: Read story. -Once_Was_Respected-

Comment 2/1/08: Let's all stand together and tell them "NO"! I don't understand, we outnumber them. Why are we afraid? -One Voice-
Comment 2/1/08: Proud to be blue, I agree with you. You really should insist they stop depositing your pay, and cut your benefits. The company would benefit so much if you did that. If I were you though I would ask for some bread and water each day but nothing more than that, don't want to infringe on Sam's big fat bonus now do you? -Doug-
Comment 2/1/08: "Because of my current companies policies, I can't directly say who I work for now..."
An anonymous poster can't say who they now work for because of their current company's policies? A policy that says 'Anonymous posts to Union Web sites for past employers are prohibited.' Give me a break. The other question to ask is why you haunt the web site if you no longer work for IBM but one of it's competitors. I could believe the Alliance might prevent posters from saying which companies ex IBM employeess work for...perhaps for Union rule reasons but your explanation makes no sense. If I found a job outside of IBM I doubt I'd be back at the Alliance Web site. -You Gotta be Kidding-

Comment 2/1/08: To Anonymous- More than one person uses the name Anon on this site, so keep that in mind when you are counting how many posts a person has. I was an IBM employee but got fed up with the IBM mistreatment of employees and customers. So I left for greener pastures. Because of my current companies policies, I can't directly say who I work for now, but it is a major IBM competitor who earned more money than IBM, EMC and SUN combined last year. And yes, we are still hiring. -Anon-
Comment 1/31/08: Proud to be Blue: I loved you in "Monty Python's Holy Grail". My favorite lines of yours: "It's just a flesh wound! I've had worse!" Ha ha! You cracked me up! I always wondered what happened to you when King Arthur left you armless and legless on the field of battle. Shoulda known! Vice President in Charge of Morale at IBM! Aka, The Blue Knight. -irRational-
Comment 1/31/08: Proud to be blue...are you having a laugh? You say hone our skills so we can bring something to the table? I bet you havent had to pay thousands of dollars out of your own money to become certified just to fight against faces that fit in this company to keep my job. Yeah I feel lucky to still have a job but its by sticking my heels in to keep it knowing IBM would end us if they could. Go and sing the IBM song in a blue suit somewhere and dont be too smug! -Anon-
Comment 1/31/08: I read a post here stating that there will be additional pay cuts coming that are in the 25% to 35% range. Can someone please shed some light on this as to when it will be happening? Will this be on top of the 15% pay cut or is it being slated for those who did not receive a cut this time around? Thanks! -more pay cuts?-
Comment 1/30/08: Federal Law Ignored?:
IBM isn't side-stepping the law - they're following it VERY carefully. The notification requirement depends on the size of the downsizing program. But, it doesn't restrict how OFTEN you have one. IBM is breaking up its actions in to multiple events, easing the skills loss in the US, and avoiding a lot of the publicity and public outcry from the real scope of globalization -Eyes Open-

Comment 1/30/08: Does anyone know if this pay cut action effects all employees in 24A& 6A or a subset of them? It's 1/30/08 and no word from my manager yet. Am I safe this go around? I plan to join the Alliance either way soon! Sick of IBM!!! -Anonymous-
Comment 1/30/08: Proud to be Blue: You are obviously a TROLL. This is NOT whining, it is a legitimate gripe against IBM and its policy of screwing the workers that made it great. Obviously YOU haven't been affected by the pay cut. Those of us that have.... 25 years with the company and taking classes and developing skills only to be told that we have no EXPERIENCE in those skills and they're afraid we'll retire and take that experience with us...... hell, I can't EVER afford to retire now!!! Get real. I hope your job is next and it's a 30% cut. -no name please-
Comment 1/30/08: To Proud to be Blue:
You fail to realize there is no company without the employees. So the company should be asking what they can do for us! I saw this crap 5 years ago with a pyramid our manager showed us. With the company on the bottom and the employee on the top. And was told "Without the company, you wouldn't have a job". He didn't appreciate it when I turned the pyramid upside down and said "But without employees, there'd be no company!" -Anonymous-

Comment 1/30/08: To all on this board: A 15% pay "cut" is nothing! Be proud to still have a job with one of America's premier organizations. Stop the whining and work on refining your skills so that YOU have something to bring to the table! Stop looking to place blame, but look in the mirror instead. Remember that this company is a reflection of all of us. To steal from JFK, ask not what the company can do for you, but rather ask what you can do for the company. -Proud to be Blue-
Alliance reply: America looks and works best when they say UNION Yes! Proud to be a Union member.

Comment 1/30/08: How is IBM side stepping federal law? Is it because they are calling it a "resource action"? NOTIFICATION PERIOD With 3 exceptions, notice must be timed to reach the required parties at least 60 days before a closing or layoff. When the individual employment separations for a closing or layoff occur on more than one day, the notices are due to the representative(s), State dislocated worker unit and local government at least 60 days before each separation. If the workers are not represented, each worker's notice is due at least 60 days before that worker's separation. The exceptions to 60-day notice are:
(1) Faltering company. This exception, to be narrowly construed, covers situations where a company has sought new capital, or business in order to stay open and where giving notice would ruin the opportunity to get the new capital or business and applies only to plant closings;
(2) Unforeseeable business circumstances. This exception applies to closings and layoffs that are caused by business circumstances that were not reasonably foreseeable at the time notice would otherwise have been required; and
(3) Natural disaster. This applies where a closing or layoff is the direct result of a natural disaster, such as a flood, earthquake, drought or storm. If an employer provides less than 60 days' advance notice of a closing or layoff and relies on one of these three exceptions, the employer bears the burden of proof that the conditions for the exception have been met. The employer must also give as much notices as is practicable. When the notices are given, they must include a brief statement of the reason for reducing the notice period in addition to the items required in notices.
-Federal Law Ignored?-
Comment 1/29/08: For those who worked with system x and may have not seen this article re Lenovo/IBM new server deal:

Comment 1/29/08: Anon wrote: "I have not looked over this site for a few weeks, being as I am no longer associated with IBM." Your name sounds familiar. I take time to count and find you are the most frequent writers at this site - 1/28(2), 1/27, 1/26, 1/25(2), 1/24(2), 1/23, 1/22(2). Looks like you have an easy good pay job - Let me know your company name. I want to apply. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/29/08: Someone responded to a post of mine in 08/07 that stated: "Comment 08/30/07: IBM won't sell the 8" fab, it's too profitable. The IBM M.O. is to sell off low margin businesses. -Anonymous-" It was true in August & sadly its even more true now. -BlueBlows-
Comment 1/28/08: I have not looked over this site for a few weeks, being as I am no longer associated with IBM. From what I can tell, its nut cutting time. Everyone here needs to quit bitchin and organize this union, or leave IBM. It's plain and simple. Either way IBM loses, but IBM will only lose if you either quit or join this union. I left on my own accord last year. Got a 30k a year raise, all the free training I can handle and am truely appreciated where I am. There is a life after IBM, so get off your butts and do something about it. -Anon-
Comment 1/28/08: -Not giving up.- It depends, I think, on what you mean by not participating. If you received the class action notice and just didn't respond, you were still part of the class. As I recall, if you wanted to "opt-out" of the class you had to notify the court that issued the class certification. Just not responding to the notice probably left you a member of the class and not eligible to take further action. I'm not a lawyer, so this is just my understanding of what I read in the notice I received. -just_my_opinion-
Comment 1/28/08: To JustOutDone: Thanks for responding to my question and please know that we are all disgusted. I can't imagine that anyone can be "ok" with a cut of any kind since we all have mortgages and others that depend on us. I am certainly not ok with any of this and am just hoping to find another job before more cuts are handed out. -No.longer.curious-
Comment 1/28/08: Chrysler buyouts -- I want one! Up to $100,00 and six months of health coverage if not retireable; or $70,000 plus pension improvements and health coverage improvements if retireable. -Envious-
Comment 1/28/08: Well I am waiting to hear from my manager. Will I be switched and receive the 15% paycut? Since many of my co-workers and I did not participate in the previous lawsuit, we remain eligible to recover previous overtime wages. With that said, is there a class action suit in process for these employees. If so, please post the firm handling the suit, so we can join. -Not giving up.-
Comment 1/28/08: Message = "Response to Still curious...- "I did not participate in the lawsuit; however, my organization of around 200+ people is being affected. I was privately notified, and needless to say....I'm extremely disgusted. From what we were told in this half a**d presentation, IBM "figured" that most employees worked around 15% in overtime, so they felt the pay cut would allow us to break even when we "regained" the OT; however.... the OT is not guaranteed, cannot be used during vacation and sick time, and will be taxed more. So for all of the rumors that IBM employees are "ok" with this decision...let it be known that we are NOT!. -JustOutDone-
Comment 1/27/08: Has anyone heard of major layoffs in East Fishkill NY?? Microelectronics area.. -IBMgoingdown-
Comment 1/27/08: Listen to Sam's all employee broadcast from last week. IBM made its money through buying small software companies and overseas contracts. Sam says "we have $16B in cash", good for them. How about treating its employees fair and paying them a fair wage. Sam says our people are what make IBM the best, I guess if you live in the United States your not a person because were treated like crap. Maybe Sam needs to go live in a BRIC country for a few years. He loves them so much.... -IBM Blews-
Comment 1/27/08: To Danger Mouse: Departments interlock with the account teams. In other words, they get a budget from each client, and that is the maximum. Actually, through out the year most accounts go through cost reduction exercises, so the interlock they agreed to in Jan can actually be 25% lower come 4Q, if that's what it take to make their numbers.. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/26/08: Can someone explain to me how things work in Global Services and the financing of our work? I am in a tech support team and we support many clients and we claim hours to various 'steady state' and project 'claim' codes? Is the department benefiting when we record more hours on 'claim'? or does the dept manager get a budget from each client account and that is the maximum the department gets? Apologies if this makes no sense to anyone. -Danger Mouse-
Comment 1/25/08: some RTP supplemental Employees in Div 7T have until March 28 to find a new job. Again glad to be gone! -maximus gone-us foreverus-
Comment 1/25/08:
Folks, here's a simple rexx pgm that you can use to calculate how much more time / week you'll need to put in / week to break (almost even) on the pay scale. No it doesn't account for your losses to your 401K or anything like that... but just to get the same amount of $ you are making now.
say 'enter your gross bi monthly pay'
pull pay1
say 'how many weeks of vacation do you get?'
pull weeks_off
yearly_gross = pay1 * 24
hourly_pay = yearly_gross / 2080
reduced_gross = (yearly_gross - (yearly_gross * 0.15) )
hourly_new = reduced_gross / 2080
final_pay = (hourly_new * 2080 )
y = yearly_gross - reduced_gross
more_hrs = y/(hourly_new * 1.5)
per_week = more_hrs / (52 - weeks_off)
say 'you would have earned 'yearly_gross' = 'hourly_pay' hour'
say 'now you will earn 'reduced_gross' which is 'hourly_new' hour'
say 'which is a differnece of 'yearly_gross - reduced_gross' year'
say 'to make up this difference you need to work 'more_hrs' hrs / year '
say 'to make up this you need to work \'per_week\' hrs / week based
on '52 - weeks_off ' work weeks '
</code> -Sam K-

Comment 1/25/08: Message = Socrates. I agree for the most part. We can overthrow the government a third at a time every election. Vote out the corrupt. Vote out those who do not do whats correct. Far too many Americans are like sheep. Distracted by non issues and the media circus and forget to follow up on the issues that are important to them after we elect the clowns. You can bet the special interest groups are there every day reminding them of their concerns. Thats why they get what they want. If the voters send a clear message to their representatives to compromise on an issue and be non partisan in solving it and then follow up if they dont politicians will get the message. It will take time. The Dems count on the union vote and the minority vote and yet really do nothing to warrant it. It has become a sure thing to them so they no longer pay attention to union issues in reality yet they still get the vote. When local Bethlehem Steel retirees lost 2/3 of their pensions and their medical benefits here in Maryland the only politician who was anywhere to be seen trying to help them was Helen Bentley, A Republican who was not even in office. Sarbanes, Mikulski, Rupersberger etc were no where to be found. Most of those poor folks had to re enter the job market in their 50's and do menial jobs for small paychecks to stay alive. Yet the next election the same do nothing clowns were re elected. Endorsed by the unions they crapped on. Both parties are corrupt as hell but blind loyalty to a single party will only begat more corruption. Best wishes for all the families affected by this horrible decision by IBM. Don't get mad, Get union. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 1/25/08: There's a blog at the Wall Street Journal where you can post comments
about's got some visibility, so go on over and post.... -Disgruntled-

Comment 1/25/08: I was not part of the class action and I was notified of the pay cut. Also the duties they show for a non-exempt to not even pertain to me. I do none of the types of things they are associating with the non-exempt. So not sure how they are determining this and I have been a 1 for four years, ever since we were outsourced. -Anon-
Comment 1/25/08: So let's understand this pay cut deal completely. Are you all saying that some employees in the same group get the 15% pay cut with the ability to collect overtime pay and some other employees in the same group (at the same level and job function) remain exempt and do not collect overtime, but keep their current salaries? If this is indeed the case then it will most likely mean that the remaining exempt employees will be required to work more free time (ie. increase the 60 hour work week to 70 or 80 hours). So I wonder who is really getting shafted here, those that get the 15% cut or those that don't. How in the world can IBM justify doing this in a court of law? BOTTOM LINE: IBM wants to motivate most of its employee workforce to quit so they can save money on severance packages when they jettison you later this year. Such a sad state of affairs for honest, decent, loyal and hardworking employees. -married_to_ibm-
Comment 1/25/08: I'd like to welcome the 24A folks to the ranks of the non-exempt. We're really happy here, and have found that it's a simple matter to drive your earnings or life to whatever level you desire. I think you will find a change in your management structure now. Rather than requiring overtime, you will be castigated, browbeat, and scrutinized for working overtime. I think the change should be refreshing for most of you. My advice would be to tell your manager that you will be happy to comply with his overtime budget by promptly leaving at quitting time. That should send a message to him that you are a true team player. Once again, congratulations on your demotions to the ranks of the hourly. Perhaps now, we can all seriously consider putting our minds and voices together to bring the union dream to a reality. -gadfly-
Comment 1/25/08: Message = response to really surprising! I myself can say that I do not know if they are mixing it up with those that did not submit a form. As this is being executed at the descretion of the various management chains, each part of IBM may be handling this differently. But it is a fact this is being done as a result of the lawsuit. They also have to know that the pay is not equal, as they claim, even if you work the required over time hours - as benefits are often based on base pay (and pay increases are % of base pay). You lose, end of story. -MyThoughts-
Comment 1/25/08: Message = "Ah Socrates. A two thirds majority can override a veto every time." Uhm... is there a two thirds majority? Even if the numbers were there, it's not hard to find a few corrupt politicians in any crowd."Only the Supreme court could then stop it by declaring it un constitutional." You mean the one that's full of neocons? Sure they will stop it... They are there for the people. There is a virus on the body of this country and it's destroying us. It has to be surgically removed. For that to happen, the current system has to collapse first (it's in progress). Once we hit the ground, we can cut out the virus and build a new system. America hasn't had a revolution for a while. It's time to have one. -Socrates-
Comment 1/25/08: This cut goes hand in hand with the forced attrition effort that ibm has pushed for several years. We have had record profits and seen our benefits and pay erode at record levels. Is any content or feel secure? RA's are common place. Rumors and sales of divisons are common. They want North American workers to leave. They are NOT back filling the positions lost with new folks in the USA.. is all going to BRICV. Look for more divisions to be sold off in the next few quarters. This push the past few years has been to get FTE's to leave so they dont have to pay severance. They want the FTE costs low and profits high, to hell with the customer sat, so they can get top dollar on a sale to an indian compant Global services days are numbered... FACT. Either get out the vaseline or polish up the resume and get prepared. I am NOT saying to leave, but be prepared to leave on YOUR terms when a RA comes around next. RA's will continue to be a regular process for the forseable future. -inside-
Comment 1/24/08: Job Cut in India. Please read here. -SomeOneFromIndia-
Comment 1/24/08: Folks, has anyone actually been notified privately by their manager about a cut or are you referring to the mandatory IBM employee ONLY meetings that are being held to discuss IBMs intention to cut? I'd also be curious as to what percentage of folks that opted out of the class action received a pay cut. I'm guessing that the cuts were spread evenly among those who did and did not take part, otherwise it would certainly appear to be retaliation and that's the kind of thing that makes the news and gets the attention of law firms very quickly. Thanks. -Still curious...-
Comment 1/24/08: Everyone, PLEASE write your congressmen and urge them to pressure Bush's Labor Relations Board to investigate. This Labor Board has been running wild for 8-years. That's one advantage to voting democrat this cycle--dial the Labor Board back to center. My fellow Sys Admins/Ops Analyst in Lexington Kentucky. Please be sure to drop Mitch McConnel a note to let him know what you think of his wife's performance as head of the Labor Board. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/24/08: division 07, 15% cut in pay, I imagine it will eventually affect tens of thousands of US IBM workforce, if it hasnt already. -nonymouse-
Comment 1/24/08: Pay cuts in Lexington, KY for 24A job family. Is the fair? What action or difference can one make? -Tony-
Comment 1/24/08: Anyone hear of the 15% cuts happening in Canada yet? -canuck-
Comment 1/24/08: If anyone thinks there will be OT available to make up for the lost 15%, think again. Here's what going to happen: Your second or third line manager will get an OT budget for the year. They\'ll also be told if they can manage that budget so that no more than half of it is used, they will get a bonus! So naturally, YOU wont be approved to work OT as the second line will need to show his boss that he/she met the target and collect THEIR bonus. And make no mistake about this too: IBM was NOT worried about the negative impact of the pay cut in terms of causing more people to join the Alliance. If they were, they wouldn\'t have approved it. No way Sam would allow it if he thought it would be the straw that broke the camel\'s back! They are just waiting for the flap to blow over. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/24/08: Well IBM has finally showed its true colors and they ain't red, white, and blue! Rebanding 499A band 7 along with the 15% cut. All the while we are told that the cut will be most likely made up by the assumed 5-6 hours a week of overtime pay. Oh, that is if they allow you to work the 5-6 hours week in and week out for the entire year. Don\'t be fooled. This is just as we all know an attempt to reclaim money lost in the Class action suit that IBM settled on. Actually they did the smart thing by settling because they knew they would get off cheaper in the long run. So you can be sure, they will never allow each affected employee to recoup his lost pay by working the overtime hours they elude to. This may happen for a couple of weeks in the beginning, but you can be sure they will put the squash on it as quickly as the dust settles. Can't speak for everyone, but I can say that it does seem to me that most of the people affected by this were the ones in the Class action lawsuit. Some individuals that are in the same location as me as well as doing the same work did not get touched. I wonder about the legality of that? After 4 plus years of good performance reviews and no salaty increase because I was at upper limit of Band 7, and then a 2+ rating just a couple of weeks ago, still no increase. Then to have Sambo tell everyone what a great job IBM did in 2007 and that we all should be proud just prior to this really makes us look stupid. I for one was not happy about the no merit increase this year as in years before, but I never expected IBM to do what they have just done. Retaliate! I have finally reached the roads end in believing in this company and its Global strategy. I have suffered ever since this stinking company took us over due to one of their strategic outsourcing contracts. It has been downhill all the way since then. As much as I detest changing jobs at my age, I can no longer afford to tolerate this anymore. So I guess I will do exactly what they are looking for most of us to do, quit quitely. They will just send another job to India. No telling how many IBM people will be unable to meet the financial commitments with the cut, but I am sure Sambo will still be enjoying his Jet, Salary and Bonuses just the same. Way to go BIG BLUE! -Anon-
Comment 1/24/08: To "INSIDE":
"You stated: There is plans in the works for the band 8 and above folks soon. 08A PM jobs will be facing a COTS soon as well keep that ibm spirit going.. lol " Are you in HR? How credible is your information...what is it based upon? Is this just rumor? -shouldijump?-

Comment 1/24/08: Now that we are nonexempt, some of us will be compensated a litttle if I read this correctly. Pension equity plan participants receive a dollar-for-dollar match on the first 6 percent of pay deferred and a 4 percent automatic company contribution, for a total of 10 percent of pay. Nonexempt pension equity plan participants receive an additional special savings award equal to 5 percent of pay. -Some Compensation-
Comment 1/24/08: To littlebit: Thanks! Do you think they targeted only those who collected or mixed it up with those who didn't collect, so nobody can scream retaliation? Thx again! -not surprised anymore!-
Comment 1/24/08: I am on a paycut from dilliard's since July 2007. I have been there over a year I am also seeing new hires come in and get twice as much money .How long will it go before something legal can be done. I should have not gotten one .I should have been getting a raise after six months.what should I do? I am a good faithful worker too. -Anon-
Comment 1/24/08: message = to This is really surprising! Yes, managers are told who signed and the amount they were awarded. Your manager has the info. -littlebit-
Comment 1/24/08: Team, Everyone is talking 15% on the cut.. that is the MINIMUM CUT ibm IS banking on fear.. they have been winning with this strategy for several years now. 15% is the minimum and since most people will do what ever they can to stay.. they will push for more. The goal is up to 35% reduction and they will use a carrot and stick telling you that OT will offset this..LMAO Since we aas ibmers dont tell others what we make, they are using this against us. This is also why they are not talking to us as a group and stating 15% across the board. There are incentives to get reductions of upto 35%.. The average cut will be 25% with the carrot and stick approach of OT to more than offset the loss. Be prepared, as I stated earlier.. more groups would be affected and we are seeing that now. There is plans in the works for the band 8 and above folks soon. 08A PM jobs will be facing a COTS soon as well keep that ibm spirit going.. lol -inside-
Comment 1/24/08: Message = LMAO at all of the liberals trying to blame bush and the republicans in this... classical short term memory and bds- bush derangement syndrome. Lets remember where nafta and offshoring started.. slick willy. Being honest with yourself is the first start. I dont like bush and I am not a republican.. but clearly the offshoring start in full force under slick -former ibmer-
Comment 1/24/08: Have a question, so now IBM is "remixing" everyone because they want to follow the law. What about all the Overtime we have worked since the lawsuit was settled and now they "remixed" us but never paid us for the other overtime?-Anonymous-
Comment 1/24/08: To anonymous: are you sure that the managers received the names of employees that were part of the class and their individual settlement amounts? That does not sound like information that the law firm or IBM's legal counsel could legally divulge to 1st and 2nd line managers? Did your manager actually tell the amount that you received? -This is really surprising!-
Comment 1/23/08: MadMike... the way to counter the rebanding/pay cuts is to organize... and look at the positives... what exempt was working only 5-10% ot? This way they either pay you for the OT or tell you not to work it, and you get to go home at 5. -running2att-
Comment 1/23/08: Ah Socrates. A two thirds majority can override a veto every time. A president can only sign or veto a bill. He or she can not introduce a bill. Only a congressman or a senator can. A well written, non partisan bill that has the support of a two thirds majority of congressmen and senators will become law. The president cannot stop it. Only the Supreme court could then stop it by declaring it un constitutional. Once again though it falls on us to make sure we support such a bill by writing letters to our representatives and if they fail to do what we want vote them out of office until we get ones in there that do. After all the only reason they are there IS to represent US. The president cannot even declare war, congress must . The President actually has to report TO congress ( A little thing called state of the union) so where is the REAL power?? Congress is not required by law to report to the president . It is assumed that congess reports to us, we, the people . Congress controls the purse strings. They submit the budget, they provide funding etc. Trust me. That is the real power in Politics. We need to think our way past the step of problem solved we found someone to blame. We all like to blame Sammy for stealing our pensions and benefits. I am guilty myself, but we never took the next step in 1999. If we had unionized and went on strike and forced our pensions back into existance it would be Sammy or Louis the First getting RA'ed by the board of directors instead of us. We as a people only have power if we unite and stand together. Gee, Maybe thats why the founding fathers called our country the UNITED STATES of America. I will get off my soapbox now. Good luck to all in these uncertain times. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 1/23/08: The link to the article (a CNN article written by Lou Dobbs) that was referenced by ANONTOO should be read by all U.S. citizens. With the small rate of people signed up for the Alliance, I'm beginning to think that most are not totally aware of the problems that our government--and IBM and other 'global' companies, have caused for this country. We'll be paying it back for years to come and so will our children and grandchildren--if the country doesn't collapse into 3rd world status before then. Unless the people take back this country--and unions are one way to do so, the outlook for our futures is pretty dreary. -Anon-
Comment 1/23/08: Mad Mike: GROW UP! Blame IBM! Fight the real enemy who is doing this to you! and not the imaginary ones. The Alliance or the litigants of the class action are not giving you a -15% pay cut! IBM is.. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/23/08: Thanks to those who filed the lawsuit to get these job classes classified as non-exempt. Now that the job is non-exempt, there is no need to factor additional compensation into salary to account for the 5-10% overtime that is assumed an exempt employee will work. Way to go. -Mad Mike-
Comment 1/23/08: IBM and other companies are guilty of implementing these failed policies and should be held accountable as well. Pray for the USA. Link to Article -ANONTOO-
Comment 1/23/08: Not sure why those involved in the class action would be targeted. Didn't our signing and accepting our share also make us ineligible for future action against IBM? If they are targeting anyone, wouldn't it be those that DID NOT sign and return for their share of the settlement? -Bluez Again-
Comment 1/23/08: "Why is it a Republican strategy? What have Dems done to protect American workers."
The Dems can do nothing until there is a Dem government. Bush has veto and has no qualms about using it. Wake up: you're under attack. If you vote Republican, you're asking for it. -Socrates-

Comment 1/23/08: Heard that Lenovo will start selling IBM System x 1 and 2 way servers as of this coming Thursday, will this mean that some System x folks will be moving to Lenovo in the near future, not sure, just a rumor as of today. -Sick&Tired_of_IBM-
Comment 1/23/08: I thought it was clear if we signed the form and participated in the lawsuit that IBM would not know who specifically participated? Managers got a list of people who participated and their individual award amount - and this is the basis for determining if someone is debanded or not. Those who got a lot of money were targeted for certain. What does the law firm have to say to those of use WHO THOUGHT WE WERE ANONYMOUS AND NOW FIND OUT OUR MANAGERS AND THEIR SUPERIORS WERE ALL TOLD WE SIGNED AND HOW MUCH WE GOT. I FEEL BETRAYED AND RISKED LOSING MY JOB BY SIGNING. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/23/08: Did the law firm that led the lawsuit advise on possible revenge like this from IBM? Clearly this is pay back time. What does the law firm have to say? -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: They have been contacted and we are waiting for a specific answer. Don't wait for this answer before you signup. Anyway you slice it, we need to organize and work to bring IBM to the bargaining table.... Lawsuit or no lawsuit, won or lost (remember the pension lawsuit?). We need to organize so that we have a contract that stipulates ALL the things we've been fighting for since 1999!

Comment 1/23/08: "Anon - you can avoid sounding ignorant by learning to use a search engine. Here's the page you would find if you tried a w3 search"
There's no need to be rude. IBM has left their employees in the dark about a lot of things, I admit I don't know anything about th 24a job classification either. It's not a terminology we use in IGS in Canada . People are here to gather information about what may be coming their ways, not to be put down by fellow employees. -Anonymous-

Comment 1/22/08: Re: "Not to sound ignorant but what is a 24a Job Classification? -Anon-"
Anon - you can avoid sounding ignorant by learning to use a search engine. Here's the page you would find if you tried a w3 search: -Anonymous-

Comment 1/22/08: I suppose that the 15% pay cut is also a windfall for IBM when they eventually LEAN you out. The amount of your severance package will be 15% less. I bet some executive got a nice bonus for coming up with this cost saving plan! Way to go IBM!!! -married_to_ibm-
Comment 1/22/08: What are the rules for posting pro-union messages/banners at at site entrances? Messages such as "Stop Offshoring. Join the Union" or "Stop pay cuts. Join the Union." I'm particularly interested in Lexington Kentucky. -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: First of all any activites must be on your own time and in non-work areas. You can hand out flyers or hold a sign as an employee in front of the building or plant gate. You can hand out flyers in the cafeteria or break room on your own time. We strongly encourage anyone who wants to do this to have signed up with the Alliance first. You will be challenged by security and asked for your badge. You tell them politely that you are a union member and employee and have a right to be there. If you have any problems contact us at 607 658 9285

Comment 1/22/08: Just had a group meeting today and I will have a 1-on-1 with my manager tomorrow. In one swoop everything I've worked for the last 7 years is gone. All the extra time and hours worked and great PBC reviews have done nothing but give me a 15% pay cut putting me below my original salary. Way to go Big Blue life recking machine. How can IBM say this is to keep employees competitive salary wise when the OT that will be needed to keep you afloat is at manager approval only. -jump back 7 years-
Comment 1/22/08: TO; BadNews Bears- >>> You must be in the 06A group, as they too are included. -no_ky-
Comment 1/22/08: Ok, here's some info I confirmed.. Any positions that are Technical Services or IT specialists possiton code 499A or 594J. It can include more but so far, this is what I've seen get the 15% salary cut, hourly wage, and requires preapproved OT from your manager -Confirmed-
Comment 1/22/08: BadNews is right. This is also affecting 06A I/T Specialist and have been told it's going to affect even more soon. I will have a 15% "salary adjustment" effective Feb 1 and any overtime will have to be approved affecting band 7 & 8 -WakeUpCall-
Comment 1/22/08: It's not just 24A...06A (IT Architect/IT Specialst) will also be affected. If you are curious about your job family/code, you can find out on the W3 site. Select the "Career and Life" tab, and under the"Your life and health" heading on the left navigation pane, choose"About you - personal". If you select the compensation link from the page, it will give all the relevant info. Good luck guys and gals. -IveBeenIBMed-
Comment 1/22/08: We got a call emergency call announcing my group will be affected, and we aren't 24A. We have been told more information is coming soon. -BadNews Bears-
Comment 1/22/08: Not to sound ignorant but what is a 24a Job Classification? -Anon-
Comment 1/22/08: Why is it a Republican strategy? What have Dems done to protect American workers. They control the House and Senate. Please list all the Pro labor bills introduced since they took over, or are they being content to just "blame Bush" and if they do nothing then no one can say they have done anything wrong. Just like a strong union actually helps business, a strong business helps a union. Its much easier to negotiate a contract when both sides are making money already. This is strictly corporate greed. It has nothing to do with Politics other than the Politicians are all ignoring our plight. I think maybe Bernie Sanders is the only one listening and he is independent. God knows Omalley here in Maryland is doing his best to drive jobs out of Maryland and tax the people in Maryland into moving out of state to make room for his favorite voters, the illegal Aliens. This idiot plans to implement an additional tax on computer repair . I can bet companys will stick around Maryland with their banking centers etc so they can pay more taxes. If we do not organize to protect ourselves no one else will protect us. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 1/22/08: to -still waiting for that call..- Here is what I think they are doing those remaining except will end up working 20-25% OT while those who are hourly will be told not work OT and if the have more 40 hours worth of work in a week to go to certain people (those who are exempt) -Anon-
Comment 1/22/08: This re-banding and cut is confusing. Our group is composed of a few band 6, mostly band 7 and a few band 8. The manager is calling us individually to notify us and not everyone in 6 and 7 will go to hourly and not everyone in 8 will remain exempt. Can anyone confirm and/or explain this? Thanks! -still waiting for that call...-
Comment 1/22/08: A quick question about organizing as a union. I'm a member as well. Do we have to organize as a whole in the US to be considered a legal union or can it be site-specific (e.g. the Tulsa location, the Raleigh research location....)? -tulsa-member-
Alliance reply: That decision is up to the Department of Labor . It more than likely would have to be the whole division not just a site. If we got a majority of employees signed up at a site we would look at having an election. Please read this:

Comment 1/22/08: My mgr talked to me about the re-banding of the 24a job family. According to legal, The managers are NOT supposed to hold dept meetings to announce this change. It is to be done on an individual basis. He also said this is a DIRECT result of the overtime lawsuit. It is the law and IBM must follow it. Then it sounded like he read from a paper that mentioned how ibm upholds the law and does what the law requires. It looks like folks band 8 and up will not be affected by this change. Bands 7 and below will be hit. The cut of 15% is the extra money that ibm supposedly gives employees when they ask them to work the 'unwritten' 46 - 48 hour work week. The folks being re-banded will work 40 hour weeks. Their overtime will be watched carefully so that they do not work too many hours. You can bet that IBM will ensure that the overtime is kept to a bare minimum. -Re-banded Fool-
Comment 1/22/08: Essex Junction plant beating up employees again. Management ranking employees and teeing up the bottom performers to get wacked with a layoff. The IBM company really sucks. -Beat Up IBMer-
Comment 1/21/08: Re this question, sad to say, the anwer is never. this is the new republican strategy. why does anyone expect to be able to live or even more ambitiously, to retire? i believe the new world order expects to be able to sell their cheap consumer goods to Brazil , Russia , India, China, Vietnam , Africa - those goods they built (oops almost typed 'guilt' from the cheapest labor from all those countries. Every few months there is another change that results in 1) less pay or less benefits. When will this all end? -re this question-
Alliance reply: It will end when employees organize here in the US and internationally, when we get a contract, and when we get IBM to the negotiating table. Giving up is not an option.
Comment 1/20/08: I haven't visited this site in over a week. Tonight when I stopped by, I was flabberghasted to see the discussion regarding the re-banding of the 24a job family. I will be affected by this change! I am already a dues paying member of this union, and I am just sick at what is happening to us. I feel like I have to protect myself from this company. Every few months there is another change that results in 1) less pay or less benefits. When will this all end? -miss understanding-
Alliance reply: You're correct. You do have to protect yourself; however, as a dues paying member of Alliance@IBM, you are part of a larger group that feels the same way you do. We can protect each other if we organize our co-workers and work as a group to build a majority of employees that want the protection of a union contract. Please contact us here for how you can get this done: Contact Us
Comment 1/19/08: Sam promised wall street a good 2008, that will come at the expense of more US workers. Wake up folks. Network sold to AT&T, rebanding of 24A, desktop support changes and a brand new global center in Vietnam. It wont be long now.... Get your resumes updated. For the IBM employees going to AT&T, IBM wont even pay them their vacation or PC holidays when they leave 1/31, they wont be paid until sometime later in February. IBM HR SUCKS! -IBM h8tr-
Comment 1/18/08: to: -ATT Outsource- When you leave IBM, the PC holidays you've taken are prorated against your vacation. On Blue Pages if you dig deep enough, you should find the policy on PC's. I did when I was still at IBM. What happens is that you get one allocated for every two months you work in the year. If you take more than you are allocated, they are offset against your accrued vacation. I was cut last spring and when I received my settlement, the extra PC holidays were deducted from my final pay. I had taken the extra three days and I found I was three days short in my final pay. IBM payroll is pretty through about it. What you may find however is that the final paperwork has already been processed by your manager. Mine was submitted on the 15th of the month I was laid off. So it really didn't matter what I did in the last two weeks. I assume that your final pay paperwork has been submitted. Just remember, you will have the same manager at ATT that you have at IBM. It's not wise to screw up your relationship over a couple of PC days. Better yet: Join the Alliance and make sure you work for a Union to protect your rights. -RA'd bear-
Comment 1/18/08: Does anyone know when the job family 24A switch to hourly with the 15% pay cut will occur? Thanks in advance. -what a joke.. on us that is...-
Alliance reply: We are hearing it will be Feb 15. We also have contacted the law firm that handled the OT lawsuit and they do not believe this is in response to the suit. The Alliance is encourging all employees affected by this to contact us at so we can start a campaign against these cuts.
Comment 1/18/08: Question on the exit process for those going to at&t. Next week they start processing the exit paperwork just like any other exit situation. But in this case, what would happen if we refused to sign off on the exit forms? Since there's no severence pay involved, what could IBM do to us, seeing that we've already accepted the at&t offer? What's to gain by signing? -Anonymous-
Comment 1/18/08: From the slides I've seen, the at&t PC day allotment policy is about (exactly?) the same as the IBM days given. I can't say I'm all that worried about it. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/18/08: TO: ATT-OUTSOURCE>>> Why not have all the Network folks take all 5 IBM PC Holidays in January. That way they get them and will get whatever PC holidays ATT gives them, if they go. Otherwise, if selected and they get canned, they got the holidays from IBM anyway. -no_ky-
Comment 1/17/08: It's best to escape while you can before your health and skills deteriorate! There are trillions of companies today that hire people with IT skills. Escaping from the Gestapo/ Bullies was the best thing I did for myself. I have quality of life and more pay! I can spend time with my family at night and weekends. Who wants to be part of Hitler's Army? India and China will go through this phase of slavery and may regret it in years to come. Perhaps they will be smart and use IP to their advantage. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/17/08: OK, here is what they are saying on the PC holidays. As an IBM'er, from January 1st you have 5 PC holidays. On February 1st (or whenever the transition) you will get PC holidays from AT&T minus or pro-rated by not being there a full year. I'm not so sure AT&T will pay for PC's from IBM? Management has discouraged its employees from taking these PC holidays. Seems fishy to me..... -ATT Outsource-
Comment 1/17/08: I have been told that management will be provided samples of astroglide to employees this year before pay dicsussions versus afterwards.. -screw blue-
Comment 1/17/08: I am going to AT&T, but I hear that many who are "left behind" will be re-banded and effectively demoted to hourly. If that doesn't get you to organize, I don't know what will.. -headin2att-
Comment 1/17/08: I got rated a 3 recently. Now a phone call meeting is being set up to discuss PBC with 2nd line manager. Do you think a RA date will be given to me? -Anonymous-
Alliance Reply: The possibility looms. Make sure you prepare yourself. Especially, if you have objected to the 3 appraisal. Document the conversation between your 2nd line and you. Record it, if you can. Keep us informed.
Comment 1/17/08: IBM France has delayed the transfer of NSD to ATT. -alliance-
Comment 1/17/08: re: "We take the PC days with us when we migrate over.." Where do you see that in writing anywhere? Show me! What fantastic trip are you on? PC holidays can be taken away by IBM at anytime without notice; or they can become vapor just like FHA funds... Show me what IBM document of employee policy guarantees that you carry over your PC holidays to AT&T. BTW... You'll probably get classified as a manager there, so you will be denied the right to join the union. It's already happened to IBM'ers that were not EVER managers. Get real! -missouriIbmer-
Comment 1/17/08: About being "jipped" our PC holidays moving to at&t....we aren't jipped anything. We can use them now, but they'd come out of the yearly pot. We still get the full PC allotment for the whole year. We take the PC days with us when we migrate over -Anonymous-
Comment 1/16/08: IBM will cut jobs from the older employees until Hell freeezes over. Nuff said! -John M-
Alliance Reply: If that is a prediction of the future; then IBM employees old & young must speak out about it and do something about it. Organize. Continue to speak and reach out to employees to tell them that there is an alternative. You can NEVER say enough, unless and until something is changed by what you say and do.

Comment 1/16/08: If you can stomach reading the details of what the employment planet will look like in our lifetime, the link follows. All of the .pdfs are under the Globalization link at the bottom. -BlueBlows-
Comment 1/16/08: To Alliance@IBM members and supporters in North Carolina:
The following is an IBM e-mail in regards to a forum at Central Piedmont Community College on "Succeeding in the Global Economy: A new policy agenda for the American Worker". The forum speakers are primarily Corporate and Academic. So far none are from Labor or workers who have lost their jobs due to offshoring. To say that the forum is scewed towards the pro-globalization viewpoint is an understatement to say the least.
The panel and IBM wants to put a positive spin on globalization. We see a need to show another view.

We encourage Alliance members/supporters in North Carolina to attend this forum and engage the panel in the Q and A section and tell the stories of the real impact on the jobs of workers and the loss of jobs in the USA.

The Alliance@IBM team

The IBM email note:
Succeeding in the Global Economy Forum with Marc Lautenbach, GM IBM America
and Wachovia CEO Ken Thompson
On January 28, 2008, 9:00 a.m. - 11:30 a.m. at Central Piedmont Community College,
a town hall discussion will take place on:
Succeeding in the Global Economy. The forum will be hosted by Wachovia
CEO , Ken Thompson and co-hosted by Congressman Mel Watt.
Also, Marc Lautenbach, GM, IBM America and a host of others, will discuss the effects of globalization, and how communities, governments, and firms can help more Americans adapt to the 21st century workforce.
The Washington, D.C. business and lobbying community that deals with free trade issues has been tasked with developing positive stories of the benefits of free trade and globalization to use in our messaging to the Congress. The anti-trade/globalization community has been very active and successful in showcasing the negative aspects of trade, such as pictures of abandoned factories, laid off workers, etc. Their messages tug at the heart strings. When the pro-trade community lobbies for free trade and open markets, we have had a tendency to speak about the benefits in generic, economic terms, which fall on deaf ears. Thus, we are now trying to personalize our messaging.
Governmental Programs is trying to find examples of jobs at IBM that are U.S. based and support our international operations ? i.e.. jobs that support globalization and free trade ? where the IBMer would be able to say something along the lines of: My job at IBM depends upon the company having access to foreign markets.
If you meet the above criteria, Government Programs would like for you to attend the Forum and be recognized by Marc Lautenbach as part of his panel discussion. We would also like to identify IBMers that came into their current job at IBM due to the shifting North Carolina economy - someone that was in the industrial/manufacturing sector, saw that the job landscape was changing, and decided to get re-trained in order to be able to join the high tech sector.

Comment 1/15/08: For those of you outsourced to AT&T, how do you feel about being"jipped" of your 5 PCH? I think its incredible how management has told employees that they can't take these days! Some of the departments that were told that they could use them as long as they had coverage, now have had that revoked. ...but remember, this transition is an "Opportunity for you all!" -ATT Outsource-
Comment 1/15/08: Looks like job cuts in Boulder and Poughkeepsie coming up. I've also heard from several sources that many of us are getting switched from salary to straight pay with a 15% reduction in pay. 24A job family. Server admins etc. Gotta love this place. -SOS-
Comment 1/15/08: 2nd line Mgrs was demoted to 1st line mgrs Jan 03, 2008 in Canada during the STG re-org and 1st line Mgrs was given the boot to fine another job outside STG.. -Anon-
Comment 1/15/08: -Ex-RochBeamer- You are right on the money with IP and IP theft. That country has built its foundation off of theft of IP. Sam and crew will continue on the same path of spinning off NA employees and divisions. I would bet my bottom dollar that we will see an indian company taking over a large chunk of GS within 2008. -Screwedbysam-
Comment 1/15/08: Lexington Operations staff, take note of your brothers in EFK. Organize while you have somthing to organize for. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/15/08: "That's not entirely true....IBM has been laying off 1st line mgrs. I know of several who were shown the door. It appears that even being part of ibm mgmt doesn't provide security anymore."
No doubt about that, at least for 2nd lines and below. I know of an entire organization of 2nd lines that were shown the door over the past year or so, with their 3rd lines taking their place (and, I assume, a demotion)
Comment 1/14/08: Operators in building 330 line told they have 30 days to find a job. Do not have number yet. At least one person was told summers in Vermont are nice. Meaning nobody will be kept in NY. -In EFK-
Comment 1/14/08: Hearing word of some people in Boulder getting laid off today. Application support but don't know any numbers yet - was hoping someone else might have more info ? -Boulder cuts-
Comment 1/14/08: "You certainly don't know your IP law my boy. The process will be the work is done in China or anywhere else, but the patent is filed in the USA or EMEA. Once the patent is filed, the Chinese employee is irrelevant anyway. Where the research work is done is irrelevant to where the patents are filed."
I am a registered Patent Agent and understand IP law. You need to use a little imagination to understand this problem. Indeed, you can patent it in the USA and Europe if it was done in China, but that misses the point. The Chinese can't sell the stolen IP in the USA or Europe but they can shamlessly steal and copy the patented items and sell them all over Asia and make a fortune. (Such as knock off Cisco routers). They then can take the money they made by stealing the IP and selling it in Asia to develop their own second generation stuff and patent it in the USA. and Europe and then compete head to head in our markets, all made possible by stealing IP. -Ex-RochBeamer-

Comment 1/14/08: To -managermyth- That's not entirely true....IBM has been laying off 1st line mgrs. I know of several who were shown the door. It appears that even being part of ibm mgmt doesn't provide security anymore. -miss understanding-
Comment 1/14/08: Managers been layoff is a myth. In tuc, when a dept is consolidated with other depts, the manager is made "PROGRAM MANAGER". We have more PM's than projects. -managermyth-
Comment 1/14/08: Looking like any remaining desktop support will be shown the door :( Link to Story -BlueBlows-
Comment 1/13/08: "You certainly don't know your IP law my boy. The process will be the work is done in China or anywhere else, but the patent is filed in the USA or EMEA. Once the patent is filed, the Chinese employee is irrelevant anyway. Where the research work is done is irrelevant to where the patents are filed."
GIE Slasher- My man, the point I think Marbles was making is that the Chinese have shown NO respect for patent infringement/copyright/laws. We're not just talking about IT , but you name it, the chinese are copying it, selling it and profiting from it. They show no regard for the legal creator/owner rights. Where the patent is filed is not the issue. The unscrupulous lurk at all levels, even the one's "doing the work". There is always a palm looking for grease. -Anon-

Comment 1/12/08: I am an in-scope employee who declined the job offer from AT&T. I got an e-mail from AT&T saying they received my notice saying that I am not accepting their job offer. Now, we'll see what IBM does next. -In Scope Employee-
Comment 1/12/08: I hear several NS commerical accounts refused to allow the AT&T deal and those network folks may be excluded from the deal. Lucky bastards! IBM blows -Outsourced again...-
Comment 1/11/08: You certainly don't know your IP law my boy. The process will be the work is done in China or anywhere else, but the patent is filed in the USA or EMEA. Once the patent is filed, the Chinese employee is irrelevant anyway. Where the research work is done is irrelevant to where the patents are filed. -GIE Slasher-
Comment 1/11/08: Annie, thanks, are there any other job classifications you'd like to alienate from the Alliance? -Anonymous-
Comment 1/11/08: "There is already pressure to move Research Division headquarters to either India or China. -Globally Integrated Enterprise Slasher-
I'm sorry, but this just isn't going to happen. India maybe, I don't know, but not China. China has virtually no patent protection whatsoever, and has been a thorn in the I/T industries' side as far as recognizing and protecting patent and import/export rules. -Marbles-

Comment 1/10/08: Aping the smaller competitors in the market is the strategy IBM is trying to adopt. To sell vapourware, keep the smooth talking, highly-paid Sales and Marketing, and contract slaves to deliver! They can then play the blame-palming game. The " Values" talks were to cover these dirty games. -Annie-get-your-Gun!-
Comment 1/10/08: It's the same tactic used globally in the so called higher cost centers. The most technically competent professionals in Higher Bands were forced to leave without a package after several years of service .Some chose to resign rather than be subject to the deliberate PBC 3 ratings . Staff over 40s (especially women who were easy targets) and higher bands of technical staff were targeted by Managers who were on Band 7, as a deliberate exercise to lower salaries. The young Managers (thugs hired for the job) who have no education or IT experience got promoted to second-level management for having accomplished the company goals. Mafia organisations will not survive in the IT industry! -Dr. Watson-
Comment 1/10/08: I am an IT specialist with 8 years at IBM doing network security. My team has been hearing rumors that we may be affected by IBM outsourcing to ATT but have not heard any details. I do not know if I would want to move to ATT but I would like to know if I have any options if my team does get moved. I asked my manager and he says he doesn’t know if we are affected or not. Who can I talk to to find out what options I would have?
I started by doing a google on IBM ATT outsource but most of the links are not recent. I did find and on that site I found a link to
I see a forum on ibmattoutsource and posted this question there; but I do not see much activity there yet. I see on this site that this outsourcing is mentioned and I found the Comments section for Job Cuts. So is this the best place to find out something to answer my questions? If there is a better place than this please let me know. Thanks in advance. -Anonymous-

Alliance Reply: If IBM won't answer your questions, then you will have to wait until they decide whether to outsource your group. We've been telling IBM employees, for several years, that the best alternative is to organize and work toward a contract with IBM. You are an "At Will" employee. IBM calls the shots regarding your employment, and whether or not they decide to outsource you to AT&T. If any options are available, they will be on AT&T or IBM terms, not yours. This forum's visitors frequently discuss the rumors, facts, possible layoffs and outsourcing of IBM employees. You may get the answer you need.
Comment 1/9/08: To 'sick&tired': Sorry to bring up this scenario - I've seen in the past IBM 1st line managers being out of a job where you'd think they would be laid off. What actually happened was some non-managers who had competent skills for their job were laid off, and the 1st line managers who were out of a job back-filled into those positions in spite of not being qualified for them.
To 'irRational': So true, including what you said about spooking the herd. In addition to deterring lawsuits, the standard lying crap of justifying why they go after certain people also plays to the egos of those who remain. It tells them they were spared because of superior performance and that will protect them. Don't believe it. -seen it-

Comment 1/9/08: Anny_Mouse- Don't worry. Don't have any bubble to burst. I couldn't give a rats butt about IBM since being screwed over in May. I just felt compelled to mention that I feel the researchers/scientists (wherever they are) are incredible minds and I have alot of respect for their intellect. I got into the IT field because I am amazed by the technology and fascinated how it has transformed the world. I have a better job now, more money and actually appreciated for my contribution. -ANONTOO-
Comment 1/9/08: for -anon- ref Watson scientists. Maybe they won't get me did not work for the seventh cavalry at little big horn and it won't work at IBM. If executives think they can squeeze more bonus money for themselves they will squeeze anyone they can. Shame on US for not being Unionized already. A mismanager gets told get rid of 2 people and guess who goes. 2 people the mismanager dislikes unless he/she has 2 people with consecutive 3 ratings. But more than likely those are the people disliked and set up already. No contract no security. -exodus 2007-
Comment 1/9/08: Re: Outsourcing Watson Research - it isn't just Watson, it's Research across the globe. You bet that Research is the foundation for IBM TECHNOLOGY. But look at all the technical graduates coming from IIT in India, and elsewhere in Europe and Asia. Believe me, Research in the US can be moved offshore easily. And look at the makeup of Research. It's already mostly non-US folks, and lots and lots of Indians. It's halfway to being offshored as it is! And who's to say that IBM would continue investing in Research? Isn't that the OLD IBM? The NEW IBM cares only about quick hits to the bottom line, and Research takes years to pay off. But if IBM marginalizes Research the way it has so many other areas in the company, that would truly be the death knell for the company. -Anon-
Comment 1/8/08: RE: Anon needing to find a new j-o-b ****
I know someone that exactly that is being done to. Was getting PBC 2s, never had bad reviews, now is being told he "lacks passion" for the business which is causing his performance to suffer, in ways that the manager refuses to actually document. It's bull. They have a reduction target they need to make, they round up candidates for termination, and do what they can to lawsuit-proof themselves. I'd have a shred of respect for them if they'd be honest and say, "Sorry, Bob, but you're part of the x% we need to cut this quarter to stay on track with getting rid of all engineering in North America within N years." Rather than this lying crap they make up because they don't have enough genuinely poor performers. But, that would spook the herd, and they need to keep grinding hamburger out of the cash cows as long as possible. -irRational-
Comment 1/8/08: to: I took a new job in 6/07 and was called in on 11/13 by my mgr. and told she didn't think I was a fit for the job and I needed to find a new job by year end or I would get a 3 on PBC. She then said if I didn't find a job I would be offered a sev. pkg. I read the PBC page and it states you have to have consecutive 3 ratings to get let go by the company. I had a 2 last year. When I questioned the mgr. she said she could let me go due to performance. Does anyone know of any different rules. I can't find anything on the HR web page. -Anon-
I was RA'd after one 3. IBM can select you for the package no matter what your PBC. In the current environment, getting a 3 means you will be RA'd at the earliest opportunity. The two 3 rule is effectively obsolete now that all of the 3's from last year should be gone. But it is still in the personel policies. If IBM wasn't trying to purge the workforce, you might have a fighting chance without a union contract. Now you need one to survive. -RA'd bear-
Comment 1/8/08: To: "I took a new job in 6/07" Makes no difference what your PCB rating ever was. That stuff is pure BS. I never got anything but a 2 in almost 10 years and when they needed to cut heads I was gone. It is purely the managers choice on who stays and who goes. I didn't suck up like some others and by the manager coffee every morning so I wasn't on the favorites list. Don't kid youself, anybody can be a target. Unless there is a Union, they can do whatever they want, whenever they want. -2PerformerLongGone-
Comment 1/8/08: "What about Watson Research in Yorktown? I can't see them outsourcing the only group that actually keeps IBM afloat."
Hate to burst your bubble Anon, but most IBM Research work is done at these other locations:
Almaden Research Center
Austin Research Lab
China Research Lab Haifa Research Lab
India Research Lab
Tokyo Research Lab
Zurich Research Lab -Anny_Mouse-
Comment 1/8/08: "What about Watson Research in Yorktown? I can't see them outsourcing the only group that actually keeps IBM afloat. IBM would be long gone if it weren't for the researchers/scientists working at Watson coming up with all the inventions".
If the IBM executives could sell Watson to benefit their own gluttonish and greedy objectives believe me they will. IBM will buy and acquire companies that have the innovations and inventions or niche software, solutions, and hardware that they want to get their hand on rather than relying on Watson Research. They have been doing it for awhile now. ANYTHING to drive up the stock price and their own options. Without a union NO ONE is safe. -Anon-
Comment 1/8/08: You guys just don't get it. In a Globally Integrated Enterprise, no country is the flagship or lead country. Evrything is up for grabs. In 2003, I personally saw the plans to move Research leadership overseas as the sales volume moved overseas. Zurich, Japan and Haifa were looked at as leadership sites. The glory days of Yorktown are over. The staff research member"perform" functions are already done overseas and the "leadership" is only in the US. Pretty soon you'll see that move to the top geography for sales. There is already pressure to move Research Division headquarters to either India or China. In GIE, nothing is safe unless it's protected with a union contract. -Globally Integrated Enterprise Slasher-
Comment 1/8/08: Fact, resource actions have begun in Software Group in RTP, North Carolina. Happy 2008 everyone. -sonOFsam-
Comment 1/8/08: A number of first line managers in Canada are out of a job after the STG reorg on Jan 03, 08. Maybe it's time they feel how tuff it is to find another job in 60 days or be on the chopping block. -sick&tired-
Comment 1/8/08: "Comment 1/7/08: Ran into a trusted manager last week. He advised that in conversations with some of his executives, IBM will continue quarterly lay-offs until only Sales and Executives remain in the U.S. She told me she's just waiting her turn. If rank-and-file IBMers do not organize, then they deserve what's coming. Join the Alliance while you have a shot, else wait your turn as well.. -Anon in RTP- "
What about Watson Research in Yorktown?I can't see them outsourcing the only group that actually keeps IBM afloat. IBM would be long gone if it weren't for the researchers/scientists working at Watson coming up with all the inventions. -Anon-
Comment 1/8/08: "I took a new job in 6/07 and was called in on 11/13 by my mgr. and told she didn't think I was a fit for the job and I needed to find a new job by year end or I would get a 3 on PBC. She then said if I didn't find a job I would be offered a sev. pkg. I read the PBC page and it states you have to have consecutive 3 ratings to get let go by the company. I had a 2 last year. When I questioned the mgr. she said she could let me go due to performance. Does anyone know of any different rules. I can't find anything on the HR web page." -Anon-
The hard reality is that IBM can layoff whoever and whenever they please. Doesn't matter if you are rated a 1 or a 3. I think you are confusing being RA'd with being terminated. Don't make anymore waves so as to not jeopordize a possible severance package. Try to find a another position if that's what you want in IBM. Although why try to stay at a company who clearly wants most of their US workforce gone? IBM management and execs are scum. BUT don't worry, the managers will get theirs too. At least when all that's left are the execs, they can shred each other to pieces while the company goes down the drain. -ANONTOO-

Comment 1/8/08: RE: Anon needing to find a new j-o-b ****
Forget about looking up different rules. You are an "at will" employee, so you can be let go for no reason. I would make the manager document how you are not meeting requirements, if you have not been put on an improvement plan. Stop working and start looking for a new job - outside of IBM. You are on the disposal list and that marks your end with IBM. Keep collecting IBM paychecks as long as you can, doing nothing but looking for that new job; save every penny you can, as you will need it. When they come at you with the Severence package, smile and take it. Then start the new job you should have found by then. Mo-money and Mo-Happiness. -no-ky-

Alliance Reply:
You are exactly correct. Without a union contract; IBM employees are 'at will' employees and at IBM's mercy. IBM makes their own rules and breaks their own rules whenever they please and whenever it suits THEM. Regardless of whether you deserved a poor performance rating or not; you'll never know for sure because IBM holds all the cards. Organize! It is the best advice and the only real alternative.
Comment 1/8/08: Ref: "she said she could let me go due to performance. Does anyone know of any different rules?" Yes, they can. It happened to me last year. -Anonymous-
Comment 1/8/08: I took a new job in 6/07 and was called in on 11/13 by my mgr. and told she didn't think I was a fit for the job and I needed to find a new job by year end or I would get a 3 on PBC. She then said if I didn't find a job I would be offered a sev. pkg. I read the PBC page and it states you have to have consecutive 3 ratings to get let go by the company. I had a 2 last year. When I questioned the mgr. she said she could let me go due to performance. Does anyone know of any different rules. I can't find anything on the HR web page. -Anon-
Comment 1/7/08: Network services delivery AND sales functions sent to AT&T. Up to 5000 worldwide to go. Now comes the server side for SO and GTS. Serving more tired and used up human resources for Wipro! -Outsource Grim Reaper-
Comment 1/7/08: Ran into a trusted manager last week. He advised that in conversations with some of his executives, IBM will continue quarterly lay-offs until only Sales and Executives remain in the U.S. She told me she's just waiting her turn. If rank-and-file IBMers do not organize, then they deserve what's coming. Join the Alliance while you have a shot, else wait your turn as well.. -Anon in RTP-
Comment 1/5/08: herdee You r wrong. I do feel that iBMers need contracts with iBm, that is for sure. But there is opportuntity when being sold off by BIG blew. After all, for the iBm/At@t scam to work, who is need the most managers or NS experts and workers! Your experiance with the existing clients is very key. Now would be a good time to look at business formation by NS workers... While seeking employment contracts @ iBm. -iBMCowNot-
Comment 1/4/08: "I drove by the east entry to the Boulder facility around elevenish today, and there was a big cloth banner saying something like 'Shame on IBM' and when I drove back past it about an hour and a half later it was gone. Anyone know about this? -Barb-" I passed by last week and talked to them. They are from a carpenters union and are protesting IBM using non-union labor. The funny thing is only ONE of them spoke broken English. They were, I believe illegals since it's been reported that the unions in Denver have been recruiting illegals. -DAN-
Comment 1/4/08: HE is High end Z/P -cisco101-
Comment 1/3/08: I drove by the east entry to the Boulder facility around elevenish today, and there was a big cloth banner saying something like 'Shame on IBM' and when I drove back past it about an hour and a half later it was gone. Anyone know about this? -Barb-
Comment 1/3/08: I miss Lou -elephant with two broken legs-
Comment 1/3/08: Cisco101: Who is HE? -Anonymous-
Comment 1/3/08: Hmmm cheers Armonk Devil thats what I was thinking myself. They are just ignoring us here and if we dare to ask if we are in scope...bearing in mind we actually look after the entire network right now (!) we are fobbed off. Very apprehensive start to 2008 -Worried-
Comment 1/2/08: Forming your own company is not too hard, but to make it viable you’ve got to get sales (marketing) and make everything work together (management) and keep the government happy (legal and tax services). Performing a technical service well is not enough to make a company go.-Retiree-
Comment 1/2/08: hey CowIBMnot.. Are you a former IBM manager or something? You sound like it. Why else would you promote the idea of forming your own company instead of forming a union at IBM? Seems like most of the comments on these boards talk about leaving IBM or starting their own business, etc., rather than trying to get a union in IBM. It sounds like they would rather do anything BUT join Alliance and work to get a union in there. It takes hard work, no matter what you choose..why not work for a union contract? -herdee-
Comment 1/2/08: I know IBM, like you, herdee, would NOT want anyone to think of forming a services company, rather than just take any raw deal, they want you to have. If the people being sold off in this deal did start work on forming a new company; it is for sure the talent is there to do it! After all, who really make the customers happy; those being sold, or those screwing everyone? The knowhow is with the workforce, not the managers and execs. Seems like IBM execs and HR are the renegades. We should stick it to them instead. Why be IBMCows? Form a services company and do the work like you would for iBM customers. Simple enough. A business union could be formed of the skilled IBMers caught up in the scam. -Cow@IBMnot-
Comment 1/2/08: to cow@ibm: Do you have any specifics about how renegade, unorganized IBM employees could form their own company to do what IBM does? That's a pretty big piece of beef jerky to bite off... besides, hasn't that been tried in locations that were sold off from IBM?... i.e. Austin TX or Mananas VA to name two..?? Don't the IBMers moving to AT&T get to become union members through the telephone company union, anyway? Details Mr. Fantasy, let's have details!! -herdee-
Comment 1/2/08: Hi guys, we just got a memo saying that ibm had its best 1/4 for the past 1.5 years....lies and more lies....also that HE had a great 1/4...this is a joke as we had more cancels than orders...any info for us -cisco101-
Comment 1/2/08: It seems to me that the IBM/AT&T deal, depends on willing IBMers going to work for AT&T. Why just be sold off like a herd of cows? Together, those IBM wants to betray, could form a nice services company! This could be the start of something big, for us, instead of international megagluts IBM and AT&T.!!! -Cow@IBM-
Comment 1/2/08: Anon and others getting offers from AT&T...Have you really looked at the AT&T package? I would go back to AT&T without giving it a second thought. Just forced back to IBM from AT&T...Health benefits are 400% higher (in fact, my AT&T Cobra was cheaper for Dental and Vision), lost my phone concession (free local phone, long distance, internet). I received a 12-13% bonus at AT&T every year for last 4 years (how did you do at IBM?) plus a bonus when SBC purchased AT&T. Sure the 401K match is in stock but at least the stock has gone up 50% in last 4 years. At least they have a retirement plan...something IBM does not have anymore. I think you will be find AT&T to be a fair employer...but if you want to come back...I will trade you jobs any day. -IBMer again-
Comment 1/1/08: -Has Been Ben- I think toothpaste isn't quite right. Maybe KY -Anon-

Comment 12/31/07: To Worried, If you arent' going to AT&T then have a seat and become part of hell on earth. You'll be the punching bag between AT&T and irate internal IBMers. My condolences. I don't envy you at all. Hurry up and go to the doc to be the first in line for the happy pills and heart medication, if you can afford it! -Armonk Devil-

Comment 12/31/07: Cow@IBM: this is hyperbole right? -Bull@IBM-
Comment 12/31/07: IBM has always been kind to us. We should let IBM have it's way with us! It is only fair to IBM that has done so much for us all. What whould we be without IBM? Humm.. It's nutz to think of starting our own company, isn't it? Humm -Cow@IBM-
Comment 12/31/07: The business paradigm Sammy embraces is very clear. You, the employee, are a tube of toothpaste. Sammy ensures that you are squeezed really hard until all used up then you are thrown away...replaced by a cheaper tube of toothpaste... i.e. Wipro. Find a way out, on your terms, and exit stage right. The old blue mare ain't what she used to be..... -Has Been Ben-
Comment 12/31/07: Hi, I work for 1/2 level network but do not come under NSD. Does anyone know how the AT&T deal will affect us? -Worried-
Comment 12/30/07: "at&t job offers are out, I just got mine. They emailed them around midnight Friday (nice touch). Same salary. They include a spreadsheet that shows our "total compensation package". They assume a 12% bonus... I think I heard the same B.S. during the IBM orientations. 401k match is in stock, of which you're not vested in till 3 years down the road." The 401K match is supposed to be hard, cold cash. Getting stock as a match for a 401K contribution is an insult and a sham. Noone has control over one company's stock relative to a 401K. At least if you are given cash you have some ability to invest and diversify as you like. If the stock tanks, then what? That's B.S. man. -Anon-
Comment 12/30/07: Anyone with an at&t offer considering seeing if the "offer" is negotiable? -Anonymous-
Comment 12/30/07: If you don't take the at&t offer, you can look for other positions in ibm up to the date when everyone else moves over to at&t (looks like on/about Feb 1). If you don't find a new ibm positon, you're given a severence pkg and shown the door. That could be a nice option if you were looking for a way out anyway or wanted to retire -Anonymous-
Comment 12/30/07: If you really want to know what guides IBM ethics then order this Harvard publication:

Why Be Honest If Honesty Doesn't Pay?
Amar V. Bhide, Howard H. Stevenson
Product Type: Harvard Business Review Article
Product#: 90501 Pub. Date: September 01, 1990
Length: 8p
Conscience explains why most business men and women keep their word and deal fairly with one another. There is no evidence that honesty pays,...
-Harvard Boy-

Comment 12/29/07: I have not seen any posts anout this one yet. I was part of the group RA'd from the 300MM engineering groups on Oct 1. Like many of the folks dumped I had 25+ years. In mid November IBM started running adds for new hires with 2-3 years experience to become Process and Equipment Engineers in the sectors the older engineers were dumped from. Isnt' this blatant age discrimination ? Or is this just the new American way? Sure didn't see anything in the papers. All you non exempt IBM folks are foolish for not going Union. -Hummbee-
Comment 12/29/07: at&t job offers are out, I just got mine. They emailed them around midnight Friday (nice touch). Same salary. They include a spreadsheet that shows our "total compensation package". They assume a 12% bonus... I think I heard the same B.S. during the IBM orientations. 401k match is in stock, of which you're not vested in till 3 years down the road. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/29/07: -Anon-
Comment 12/29/07: Just checking forum, anyone know re what happens if you dont accept AT@T offer. Thanks -paul-
Comment 12/28/07: Is this why IBM rushed into Lean in the IGS world?

Too much of a coincidence for me... I can't wait to leave this dishonest place. -Anonymous-

Comment 12/28/07: Worked to death and then cast off like garbage - that's the future for India? Besides the medical and social destructiveness of working for international slave exploiters like IBM, here's an article on the gathering storm clouds for Inida and long as you're cheap you get the business! -Rupee Storm Forecaster-
Comment 12/28/07: People who joined on or after the month of feb 2007 as a fresher have been asked by IBM to write a 2 hr exam (aptitude and tech).Many of these people in projects but asked to write exams with intention of firing 20% of employees(ELTPS). Big joke is if the person is in java competency he has to write cobol, cics vis versa. Many of the contract employees already fired(80%). -banga-
Comment 12/28/07: I am still surprised by the reaction and gullibility of many IBMers. Can't they read the title of the department IBM management has designated as THEIR advocates? It's called "Human Resources" not"Human Assets". You are a resource, a tool and disposable item, not an asset to grow, nurture or keep. -Disposable-
Comment 12/28/07: "To -Banga- IBM India is firing people? What/how? I am totally confused by what IBM's plan is. It seems like they have no real plan. Hire then fire, hire then fire. Is this some sort of game for them? -miss understanding-"
miss_understanding, if you link the Wippro/IGS rumors with the anicipated layoff of IBM/India workers it all starts to make sense. IBM/India workers are soon to be replaced by Wippro/India workers. Round and round it goes as all workers around the world are treated like a disposable commodity (e.g., toilet paper). -married_to_ibm-

Comment 12/27/07: I am an In-Scope IBM NSD employee who will be going to AT&T. I just received a phone call from my manager saying that the contract with IBM and AT&T was signed today 12/27/2007 and that AT&T job offer letters will be forthcoming via e-mail. The final date to accept the AT&T job offer is 14 days from now on 1/10/2008. -In Scope Employee-
Comment 12/27/07: To -Banga- IBM India is firing people? What/how? I am totally confused by what IBM's plan is. It seems like they have no real plan. Hire then fire, hire then fire. Is this some sort of game for them? -miss understanding-
Comment 12/27/07: Any more news on the RA coming in January? The rumors i'm hearing are becoming more and more reality each day.. -Worried-
Comment 12/27/07: Anon - I couldn't have written it better!! "...Sorry to hear the Indian folks who took our jobs away are feeling the emotional and physical stress of being overworked and under-appreciated. Welcome to our world no doubt. How about the added stress...." The article made me so angry, I couldn't finish it. I harbor no ill will against the folks in India even though they are well aware they are taking our jobs. After all, we wear clothes made in sweat shops, no? No, no don't blame them. Blame the greedy corporate greasy pigs who arranged to overwork people to death. I hope they choke on their Lipitor. -Anon+-
Comment 12/27/07: "Sorry to hear the Indian folks who took our jobs away are feeling the emotional and physical stress of being overworked and under-appreciated. Welcome to our world no doubt. How about the added stress of losing one's job after being over worked and under-appreciated, only to be struggling to make the mortgage payments and put food on the table. Are we supposed to feel sorry for these people? The only ones to blame are the greedy corporate execs and politicians who are raking in billions of dollars. Don't expect them to give a damn about these problems. They are evil scum and have no feelings for anyone but themselves." Well said. To the workers in India: welcome to the stressful world we live in. We have the additional stress of seeing Sam Palmacrapo raking in millions and scheming how he will lay us off in the next quarter to hire more Indians to stress out. Scumbag Sam Palmacrapo can rot his fat ass in hell. -Fed up in Fishkill-
Comment 12/27/07: Thanks Anon. In india also IBM started firing people(ELTPs). We started working on Saturdays. 2008 we are expecting more job cuts here as 4500 employees in bench -Banga-
Comment 12/26/07: I'm beginning to hear rumors that the wipro/igs deal is going to be announced 1/15. Anyone hear anything else? -miss understanding-
Comment 12/26/07: Now that GTS Sales and Delivery units are organizaed by SPLs, they can be sold off easily. Server SPL is the first to go. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/26/07: Sorry to hear the Indian folks who took our jobs away are feeling the emotional and physical stress of being overworked and under-appreciated. Welcome to our world no doubt. How about the added stress of losing one's job after being over worked and under-appreciated, only to be struggling to make the mortgage payments and put food on the table. Are we supposed to feel sorry for these people? The only ones to blame are the greedy corporate execs and politicians who are raking in billions of dollars. Don't expect them to give a damn about these problems. They are evil scum and have no feelings for anyone but themselves. -Anon-
Comment 12/26/07: Saw this article and thought I would post here. All that glitters isn't gold! Welcome to our world... -Anonymous-
Alliance Reply: Thank you for sending this to us. We have posted it to our front page article section (right panel):
Comment 12/24/07: HoHoHo from IBM to NS employees caught up in the AT&T deal.. Word is that 1/2/08 is the day letter should go about on the IBM/AT&T scam... What a way to start the year@! -HoHoHoNSIBM-
Comment 12/24/07: "I see alot of posts here that in short say "been RA'ed from IBM, glad to be gone. why stay, get out, leaving is new job is..". Could it be we have some trolls or union breakers that work for IBM that are posting here that actually want to entice folks to leave on their own and that being RA'ed is the best thing for the NA IBMer? For most folks being RA'ed is not a good thing at all. I would like to see more posts that say "..haven't been RA'ed yet, want to stay and fight this big blew, want to get a union in to get IBM to play fair.."."
It is going to take more to change IBM than to change this message board. I am not a troll or union breaker. I am an RA'ed IBMer who got totally screwed by IBM. I am with a new company now and life is good. It is obvious to me how screwed up the IBM management is starting at the top with Sam Palmisano. What you need to do is rally support with your coworkers. Get them to support the Alliance. Frankly the only thing I see that will save your job and the IBM company is a union. Do this before Sam Palmisano and his band of self-centered egotistical execs suck the company dry. Right now they are cutting your job and moving it to India for cheap labor so they can suck even more more money from IBM for themselves. This is not good for American jobs. This is not good for America. This will only line Sam Palmisano and the execs pockets. Wise up and get your fellow co-workers support for the Alliance before it is too late.
-RA'ed IBMer-
Comment 12/24/07: Happy Holidays All.
I agree with Anonymous below. I do think it is great that folks have found jobs outside of IBM, however, this site is supposed to be all current and past IBM'ers who would like to have some job security as well as those RA'd who would like to regain some perks they were cheated out of. The 2nd part may never happen but it could. The best thing I see below is from Barb's comment, " I already know people who earn their living cleaning up outsourced work." As a former IBM'er who was RA'd, I am seeing excruciating offshoring issues in my organization. My hope for 2008 and beyond is that offshoring turns the corner and all those "new job opportunities" that lying, greedy pigs said were going to replace our offshored jobs, actually come as we bring these jobs back to the US. Sorry to sound pie in the sky, but this is what corporate America has reduced many of us to....resentful, angry people who once believed in IBM and chose to work our butts off for them only to be cast aside. It makes one wonder about our capitalist society, not that anything else seems to work. May our kids and grandkids see a better world. We have really messed this one up. Happy New Year -Trust Level Zero-

Comment 12/23/07: Ok Anonymous, I am an ex-IBMer and I found a great job outside. I wasn't fired, RA'd, threatened or anything. I just found better company with a better paying job. Do you mean to tell me that I should have foregone all that to stay at IBM and fight? are you out of your mind?? Life is short and although I support the Alliance's effort, I'm not going to miss out on great opportunites in life just to stay at IBM and fight. No I'm not a troll and in fact I dislike IBM. I used to work in RTP. -maximus-
Comment 12/23/07: I am sure there are trolls out here like any site but I am not one of them. I was on this site for years, getting my co workers to join Alliance. IBM needs a Union in a bad bad way with the way they treat people. Unfortunately in my 8 years of fighting it didn't happen. I did everything I could to convince people to join up, while at the same time was constantly stressed out, on call all the time, paged out during holidays and 2am, weekends, holidays, etc. I didn't think it was a good thing when I was RA'd but now when I see how you can be treated by a good company I would never consider working for Big Blow ever again. IBM was a bad experience in my career but I can move on now. Good luck to all who are still there and Happy Holidays. I wish the best for all of you. -So happy I'm gone-
Comment 12/23/07: I see alot of posts here that in short say "been RA'ed from IBM, glad to be gone. why stay, get out, leaving is new job is..". Could it be we have some trolls or union breakers that work for IBM that are posting here that actually want to entice folks to leave on their own and that being RA'ed is the best thing for the NA IBMer? For most folks being RA'ed is not a good thing at all. I would like to see more posts that say "..haven't been RA'ed yet, want to stay and fight this big blew, want to get a union in to get IBM to play fair..". -Anonymous-
Comment 12/21/07: RA'd in May and I have to say it was the best thing to ever happen to me. No more stress, no more being constantly peed at the world. At my new job I was at the Christmas party last night. The owner came up to me, told me he was glad to have me and gave me a card with several large bills in it. Today we had a Christmas lunch and more gift cards. What did IBM ever give me for Christmas? A pager and on call for free during the holiday which always ruined everything being paged Christmas morning at 2am, Thanksgiving, New Years eve, etc. Once you get out of this hole you will realize how badly this company treats you and never look back. Don't try and hang in there, it's not worth it.. Oh yeah, now I have no on call and no OT for free. Never again will I be awakened to the sound of a pager in the middle of the night. And it's so nice not to have a moron of a manager and team lead that gives me weekend work and then goes home never to help us out. What a joke. -So happy I'm gone !!!-
Comment 12/20/07: Mr. Doyle, do not follow the Toyota way. Be original. Why not use a more successful business model created by IBM. Family and respect for the individual. Get to basics. Don't be a follower of other business models. Create your own models! We rebuilt Japan after WWII with our business models and smarts. Be a leader not a follower! Job reductions EFK, MLC manufacturing, February! Good luck everyone! IBM will be losing people that made this company. Those that enabled the board to pay the salaries to it's jug headed leaders! -EFK-
Comment 12/20/07: OK, I admit - my earlier comment assumed ill will which may not have been intended. The point of that posting may have been to highlight the real issue of benefits being withdrawn. (That issue does have the effect of splitting groups into the haves and have nots, which was my point.) Aliance's reply is right on target. Thank you. -to exodus-
Comment 12/20/07: heard a rumor of 800 people in SSO being cut by end of january 2008. anyone else hear anything? and if so - how in the world are we to support the customers? -curious-
Comment 12/20/07: Alliance, in your reply to 'exodus', you missed one obvious point. He or she seems very pleased to have more than younger generations. Sorry to say that if everyone in exodus' demographic group are that selfish, then nothing will change. Why would 'exodus' vote for change, for support to workers, employees, children, retirees, or anyone else who didn't get whatever he or she thinks they got. -To alliance-
Alliance Reply: We agree that the tone sounds like 'i got mine'; However, interpretation is subjective. The point we are making is that NOTHING is guaranteed in writing for IBM retirees. That includes us older generation over 55 IBMer's. The fact that some retirees made out great, does not mean they are selfish, nor the majority. There are many many IBMers that get very tiny IBM monthly pension checks; because IBM changed the rules on them. That's one point you may have missed. There will always be selfish people, regardless of generation. They are not the majority. We're trying to organize ALL elligible IBM employees. We also recognize that the younger generation deserves to have the same opportunity of financial security when they become "over 55". If you believe in that too, then let us help you organize your co-workers.
Comment 12/19/07: Everyone should just give a 2 week notice (do your job just like you're still going to be there, but don't train anyone to do it), sell all your ibm stock and never buy ibm products. -LEANd-by a mean-machine-
Comment 12/19/07: so great that you got yours. you must be at least 55 since those of us just under 50 lost our pension. good for you that you sleep well. jerk. -To exodus-
Comment 12/19/07: Scared Young'un Come now. All these young experts posting outrageous comments in raise and salary etc about getting us deadwood oldtimers out of the way. nothing to fear. You will be in good hands. Your own. We olde pharts on the other hand will be getting paid to not come to work anymore. It is a wonderful invention. This thing called a pension. I am truly sorry you young uns wont have one . Maybe if you unionize you can force a defined pension plan back into place at IBM. It is really nice to get paid 7 days a week to NOT be on call. And I heard him exclaim as he rode out of sight "My checks in the mail and I will sleep all night" -Exodus 2007-
Alliance Reply: thanks for the holiday cheer ;-) ... Just a reminder for retirees: Corporations and big businesses continue to press Congress for laws to alleviate their responsibility to their retired employees. As an IBM retiree, you need to be ever vigilant and stay active as a voter and a citizen of this country. It's no secret that EVERY big company wants to eliminate pensions and medical benefits completely. It also shouldn't be a secret that they continually seek relief of their responsibility to retirees drawing their pension NOW; All while promoting the idea of self reliance and the saving for retirement through 401k plans or IRA's. These ideas are not bad; however, in practice they do not provide the stability for individuals of the union contracted pension and medical past, as long as they are connected to Wall Street's gains and losses. Working people, now more than in the 1960's, 70's and 80's need to organize once again; just like in the 1930's and 1940's. Contrary to what anti-union people tell you, Unions ARE necessary as long as corporations dominate the world economy. It's called balance.
Comment 12/18/07: I was on a call today and one of the B10 old timers said he's gotten 15 calls and emails from colleagues leaving in S&G and IGS. Lots of people gave 2 week notices on Monday to depart by 12/31.-Scared Young'un-
Comment 12/17/07: The trick of the falling dollar is not for foreign companies to come here, but for domestic endeavors to revive. The Chinese toy scandal caused people to look for 'made in USA' toys, to give one example. There might be some foreign interest along the lines of how Honda and Toyota build plants here, due to rising costs for transporting large, heavy goods, but the challenge for us is to come up with the next startups to replace the ones that got big and betrayed us. I already know people who earn their living cleaning up outsourced work. -Barb-
Comment 12/16/07: To -sore sphincter- Consider this:
"Which will Washington sacrifice, the domestic financial system and over-extended homeowners or its ability to finance deficits? The answer seems obvious. Everything will be sacrificed in order to protect Washington’s ability to borrow abroad. Without the ability to borrow abroad, Washington cannot conduct its wars of aggression, and Americans cannot continue to consume $800 billion dollars more each year than the economy produces.
A few years ago the euro was worth 85 cents. Today it is worth $1.48. This is an enormous decline in the exchange value of the US dollar. Foreigners who finance the US budget and trade deficits have experienced a huge drop in the value of their dollar holdings. The interest rate on US Treasury bonds does not come close to compensating foreigners for the decline in the value of the dollar against other traded currencies. Investment returns from real estate and equities do not offset the losses from the decline in the dollar’s value. China holds over one trillion dollars, and Japan almost one trillion, in dollar-denominated assets. Other countries have lesser but still substantial amounts. As the US dollar is the reserve currency, the entire world’s investment portfolio is over-weighted in dollars."
It's apparent that EU firms will NOT open additional mfg. here in the USA ... Not when "BRIC" have cheaper labor than the USA. Not when the Americans are so adverse to European ideas and cultures. GWB helped develop the "hate the French" and the EU because of its 'socialist' ideas. Don't count on EU to bail the USA out of anything. You are dreaming.. wake up! -Consider this-
Comment 12/16/07: 1 in 5 work in india;_ylt=ApFOEfrgiIyYprQPzDikdZZk24cA Intresting confirmation from IBM on the expense of indian employees, something we all knew from the start. I just say a little prayer at night the the devalued dollar will continue to spark more business in the USA, as it has. There is a lot of talks going on with European firms to open additional manufacturing in the USA. I am sorry for the EU members, but the USA's middle class has been screwed for some time.. this is a good thing. -sore sphincter-
Comment 12/15/07: To anonymousIII, Tell your ex-boss your happy he called and thinks highly of you. Tell him/her then you'll work for 50% more than what he paid you at IBM or what you make now, whichever is greater. The day you get there, start looking for the next job and quit if you get anything that pays more. You boss knows you're good, cheap and loyal. Just make sure he knows you aren't any of the latter two anymore! -Darwin-
Comment 12/15/07: Yep, its true IBM taking back employee disbursements (payroll, Travel, Mobility) from Fidelity. Screwed a bunch of workers out of their pensions and now giving then nothing back. -IBM = Idiots Become Managers-
Comment 12/15/07: Interesting article: -the-growing-india-IBM-
Comment 12/14/07: To RA'd bear. Very true. Customers now call any given support center multiple times in a process I heard them call " Re-Hadji-ing" As in did you re-hadji the question and get the same answer? If so maybe we can try what they suggested. Sad but true.. -Exodus 2007-
Comment 12/14/07: Get this.. How about the IBM manager that fires you in September and then calls your house with job opportunities outside of IBM. Can you spell harassment or emotional distress??? . -anonymousIII-
Comment 12/14/07: TO: -RA'd bear- *** You don't seem to realize that we are in total agreement. IBM took the best, worked them until they are "burned out" and the RA's them OUT, that is being FIRED. They get some cheap spot fillers and usually loose the account over time. BURNED OUT = OVER WORKED and UNDERPAID and NOT APPRECIATED by IBM. . -no_ky-
Comment 12/13/07: Hi George, the only rumours I heard cuts about was for Canada in IGS....10% cuts in Operations and Sys Admin, in ADDITION to more outsourcing to Argentina for technical work and offshoring of service/clerical work going somewhere also - Veitnam and/or Brazil is what I heard. -DM-
Comment 12/13/07: To 'no-ky', you got any more information on your statement about " IGF is offshoring almost all functions from NA to SA (Brazil)" What kind of functions are you talking about? -curious_george-
Comment 12/12/07: TO: -innovation station- *** IGF is offshoring almost all functions from NA to SA (Brazil) in 1Q2008. IGS will be having a major services function offshore to India, China and Vietnam. So HR will have to process all the burn out timber that IBM NA gets rid of. So for most IBM NA folks, As Donald Trump was famous for saying: "YOU'RE FIRED !!!" -no-ky-
Comment 12/12/07: to "DM" and "so tired" - are the rumored cuts limited to Canada or are they worldwide? -George-
Comment 12/12/07: to DM re Canada - I have heard the same rumour... -So Tired-
Comment 12/11/07: More fun for the old Amex folks. The CTO is on the way. Merry Christmas! -Gone_or_not-Maybe-
Comment 12/11/07: HR in Atlanta and RTP are reporting they are gonna be VERY BUSY come 1Q08 and won't/can't say why. I wonder if there will be another sell off of a major div/org like Network Services. BTW, Network Services folks going over to ATT on 2/01/08. -innovation station-
Comment 12/11/07: Old Timer, Amazing! It's gone totally silent. Maybe it's because everyone is madly working on a futile attempt to make the exhorbitant numbers. This organization (GTS) is clearly in the management exploitation phase where they want to extract the most out of it before casting it off. -Future Wipro Soldier-
Comment 12/10/07: Sorry only speculative rumors were repeated 3rd hand. [ee's=employees.] -BlueBlows-
Comment 12/10/07: I heard through some management contacts that there will be 10% cuts (in staff numbers) in Server System Operations and Server Administration by end of Jan 2008 (LEAN stage 5 they call it I think). Any other Canadian's out there who knows anymore? -DM-
Comment 12/10/07: -infidelity- True, in part, as it relates to the IBM payroll ee's that were outsourced to Fido. -BlueBlows-
Alliance reply:
Can you elaborate? First, what are ee's? Second, do you know if these returning ee's are getting their service time, etc. back? Is this a deal of some kind with Fidelity? Any details that you can verify would be helpful.

Comment 12/9/07: There was a flurry of rumors regarding the WiPro buyout, and now I am hearing nothing. This follows suit with all other rumors that have turned into reality. I'm ready for that severance where is it? -Old-timer-
Comment 12/9/07: Seems the devaluation of the dollar maybe a good thing for American workers. I wonder if this devaluation will slow the off-shoring efforts. It's now more costly to hire people in the BRIC's as opposed to keeping the jobs here. -miss understanding-
Comment 12/9/07: I heard from my sister-in-law's sister-in-law that Fidelity people in Endicott are going back to IBM. No details on the particulars.. anyone have any information on this? Is this a secret or no? -infidelity-
Comment 12/9/07: If anyone reading this was cut and IBM tries to hire you back, don't do it. There are plenty of other good companies out there to work for. IBM is rotten and cares only about it's cheap foreign workers in the third world. IBM is quickly becoming the Nike of the IT industry. -dirtysanchez-
Comment 12/8/07: I do contract consulting now and have my resume listed on several of the job boards. Right now I am getting two to three calls a day for postings in my old organization. Most of the postings are for 20% more than I was making as a IBM'er. I am politely declining the requests but I think it's ironic that IBM is trying to hire back the positions they so graciously slashed this last year as a result of LEAN. -RA'd bear-
Comment 12/8/07: Sara, "Globalization is the future". That's what your "industry experts" to Boeing management said a few years back. Remember? Now the Project Executive for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, the first Boeing aircraft totally outsourced wants you folks to comeback with your attorneys to further clarify your advice. Check out the bible of the greedy executives, the Wall Street Journal, last week on how the"globalized 787" project is going. -Boeing Investor-
Comment 12/8/07: "Globalization is the way of the future". Sure, but not a good way I'm afraid. Globalization doesn't have to be continual, unabated offshoring. When Watson expanded IBM that was true globalization. IBM was always a global company to begin with. Now IBM is just blindly going to low cost countries to replace existing jobs. IBM executive management has no clue how to turn real profits and revenue without resorting to the cheapest actions. -sby_willie-
Comment 12/7/07: Sara- you are a little behind the times. Globalization is the way of the present. AND it ain't workin. -Anon-
Comment 12/7/07: To John.
Sam Bet, we lost, India and China etc won. Since 1999 when IBM reneged on our pensions and medical and we were unwilling to Unionize the Executives have been Raping and Pilaging our Benefits while lining their own pockets and the Board of directors has supported them, Not us. The alliance is the only group that has even tried to support us. This latest freeze the pension game is great. I think it amazes management how truley spineless and stupid the supposedly brilliant IBMers really are. That work conditions, raises and benefits have reached new low points every year and still people continue to work here without organizing is truley amazing. A simple contract to stop erosion of benefits, or pension. A simple contract to define pay raises and commisions and bonuses to stop managers pets from getting everything while everyone else gets nothing and yet no one signs up. I guess everyone is waiting for T.J. Watson the 4th or fifth to come save them. Guess what. It ain't gonna happen folks. -Exodus 2007-

Comment 12/7/07: I'm a sucka for a troll, Sara. "Globalization is the way of the future" What a fun comment...and how does that help/affect unionizing IBM... -Anon-
Comment 12/6/07: Globalization is the way of the future -Sara-
Comment 12/6/07: I think the severance package is their payment for you to sign away your rights via the "Covenant Not to Sue". If you get RA'd with no package then DON'T SIGN ANYTHING. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/6/07: Has anyone that was laid off utilized the TRA (Trade Readjustment Act) in their respective states? It is my understanding that unemployment benefits can be extended up an additional 18 months (at least in Calif) if 6 or more can show their jobs were replaced by foreign workers. -curious-
Comment 12/5/07: How can you jeopardize your severance package? If IBM fires you and you did nothing legally wrong, don't they have to give you severance? -Anonymous-
Alliance reply: There is no legal requirement to pay severance pay. Too many employees believe they have certain rights that simply don't exist, absent a union contract.

Comment 12/5/07: To -whatisthebestway- That WAS a good article. Thank you. The only thing that would have made it better would be under the caption "Clash of the Titans," rather than two guys arm wrestling, they would have one guy ready to arm wrestle (HP), and the other guy standing to the side giving a lecture on the evolution of business models and the history of world corporations (Sam Palmisano). HP=Get it done right, and get it done right now. IBM=Let’s talk about on-demand processing and utility computing. What ever happened to Palmisano’s bet-the-company on-demand strategy anyway? Doh! -John-
Comment 12/5/07: to: RA_me_please_IBM I was RA'd in the spring. To encourage my manager I asked him what future I saw in my job/career at IBM because I didn't see where I fit in. I was notified of my selection 3 weeks later. -RA'd bear-
Comment 12/5/07: TO; -RA_me_please_IBM- >>>> If you have to ask, you should have been laid off already. Simply do a half-azz job continuously. You will either get laid off or promoted. With the current poor management you never know which will happen. -gotta-go-go-go-
Comment 12/5/07: RA_me_please_IBM- It has been posted here before but I will say it again. I was part of the "resource action" in May. I was given the separation package and read through it very carefully. If you express any interest to your manager in being laid off you will forfeit any severance package that you might have otherwise been entitled to get. When I was RA'd, several of my colleagues said they wished it was them that got laid off and one even asked our manager if it could be him instead of me. I quickly advised him not to do bring it up again based on what I read in the sep package. Of course alot depends on your relationship with your manager but it's better to be safe. BTW, if you are in any sort of technical support role, I have heard throught the grapevine that most, if not all, internal support roles will be replaced by contractors or outsourced next year. So, sit tight, do the minimum and maybe your wish will come true without having to jeapordize your severance package. -Anonymous-
Comment 12/5/07: Good article. My apologies to those who have read it already.,1540,2227222,00.asp
12/03/07: Clash of the Titans: HP vs. IBM-Who Wins? By Lawrence Walsh HP is on pace to crack the $100 billion mark, and put Big Blue in second place for goo
d. -whatisthebestway-
Comment 12/5/07: How can I volunteer to be RA'ed? So maybe someone else who might be RA'ed can save their job in my place. -RA_me_please_IBM-
Comment 12/4/07:<