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Pension Comments Archive This
comment page is for employee reaction to the latest pension take away.
Comments that flame other posters, distract us from the real issue.
The comments below were archived from the current Pension Comments Page Comment 2/18/10: How can my cash balance pension grow with only 1.4% of yearly interest now and with my allocation totally heavily involved in the volatile stock markets? To get a higher interest rate close to what IBM thinks it will be and used for future calculations, 6%, does that mean inflation needs to happen? If so this cash balance thing is a total disaster and how does IBM still have the gall to even call it a pension in the first place? -anonymous- Comment 2/14/10: I was RA'ed last year and my severance is now dry . Can I draw on my cash balance pension without any withdrawal penalties while I am still collecting unemployment? IBM said I can take it when I go so is this really true? -anonymous- Comment 2/01/10: I was part of the Class action won against IBM. I left IBM after 23+ yrs back in 2007, since I will not be 55 until 2011, is that when the settlement will be paid to me once the defined prior pension (what's left of it) begins monthly payments ? Good Luck to all IBMers', I still have many friends at IBM and they are miserable! -Anonymous- Comment 1/17/10: There was recently a debate in the UK Parliament about the changes to the IBM defined benefit pension in the UK. It was for 30 minutes and well worth watching: http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/newsid_8452000/8452051.stm -Anonymous- Comment 1/10/10: -SteelBlue- I hear ya too! Do you remember they said that the cash balance pension was a "cost neutral" plan conversion? Meaning it doesn't cost more or less than the defined benefit plan. Then IBM says the cash balance plan would save them million$. How is that the least bit neutral? When I found this out after a SpeakUp in 1999 I had no choice but to join the Alliance. IBM tell me that the cash balance pension pays much like the defined benefit plan over time ('the time value of money' I think they liked to say) and we had a corporate influenced US Appeals court judge that says to have lost pension benefits with the conversion as being fair. So how come the interest rate keeps going down and down? It surely sounds like reverse rather than neutral to me. But since MOST IBMers still are deaf, blind, and dumb to what they have lost to the forced cash balance pension conversion (theft) (could be anywhere from about 25%-50% of total retirement benefit balance) and now don't fully understand what they are losing with a totally frigid, frozen pension, they will continue to lose more and more and more: maybe until there is nothing left to lose. So getting to 0% as the PPA interest might not be that far fetched since IBM can change the interest crediting at any time at their whim. -PPA'ed- Comment 1/09/10: To PPAed - Yeah, the PPA interest rate is a complete joke...and it always was. When we were pitched the idea, they gave us data (which I still have) showing that the method they used (1 year T Bill + 1%) to calculate the crediting rate averaged 7% over a 20 year period. Well, since the PPA was incorporated in 1999, the PPA rate has YET to be 7%! Lou and all his minions, Sam, Nick and Linda included, snagged our pension $$ via the increase in stock price funded in part by our persion theft. BTW...that joke of an FHA is also credited with the same interest rate. This was a theft beyond belief. In my opinion, it would NEVER have happened if we were represented by a union. -SteelBlue- Comment 1/03/10: -PPA'ed- And you expected fair treatment and a fair pension without a union negotiated contract why?? Because your manager told you it was fair and a good thing for all? Just curious why you would expect a cost savings measure taken by IBM to not be funded by you losing something? The cash balance plan was just that, A cost savings measure. IBM saved a bundle. It cost you a secure retirement. Thats fair isn't it? Had enough? Join the Alliance and Organize your co workers. Or don't join but get all your co workers to join. That works too. Do nothing and that 0 percent could easily become reality. It almost is. -Exodus2007- Comment 1/01/10: "...Plan's current interest crediting rate 1.4% for 2010...". Well, the interest crediting rate was 2.6% for 2009. I thought the economy was recovering (that's what they are saying) so why is the rate down so much? Nice to know this cash balance pittance is nothing more than a cheap as %$#@ savings account masquerading as a pension plan. Does that mean for 2011 it could be 0.0%? We're all gonna be screwed come retirement. We can take that to the bank. -PPA'ed- Comment 12/30/09: Ref Stocks. I would consult a tax professional quickly. Selling at year end may be beneficial tax wise. Taxes on capital gains will be your biggest problem and can push you into higher tax brackets and eat up a lot of your gains. Beyond that I for one would not presume to give any stock or tax advice. -Exodus2007- Comment 12/30/09: Was RA'd. Stopped ESOP 5 years ago, after about 6 years of buying stock. Stock never sold. Now stock at high level. What strategy have any of you used for ESOP and either selling or holding? What about now with IBM stock at high point (so no losses regardless of what lots I might sell). -anonymous- Comment 12/29/09: Ref: Comment 12/28/09: How do I apply for my IBM pension? -Anonymous- You're kidding...right? -Neal Watkins- Comment 12/28/09: How do I apply for my IBM pension? -Anonymous- Comment 12/05/09: I thought that couple dollars a month was from when IBM tried to do profit sharing . Now that I think about it they gave me 7 shares of stock at that point so it must have been the Cooper settlement. My appologies for my ignorance. -Exodus2007- Comment 12/04/09: Regarding the Cooper lawsuit, there were multiple parts. The first part was in fact a settlement. You should have received a mailing with the details. I quit in 2003 and am receiving my pension from the old plan. I received a letter from the lawyers detailing my benefit under the settlement awarded in the first part. It is about $400 extra per year at age 65, with a 50% J+S -Anonymous- Comment 11/27/09: -pensioncurious- from netbenefits.com click on > IBM Personal Pension Plan - Prior Plan > Estimate a payment... > run the estimator > View how your benefit was calculated > Details of Settlement Benefit > you will see the details of the settlement calculation and a monthly payment that is added to your pension. -anonymous- Comment 11/26/09: Dear -pensioncurious- The Cooper lawsuit was lost on appeal. The Supreme Court refused to hear Cooper's appeal. There is no impact to figure in, i'm afraid. -Exodus2007- Comment 11/25/09: I was originally put into the Cash Balance Plan. They then came back and told me I had a Choice, and I chose the Defined Benefit Plan. I am still employed. How do I figure the impact of the Cooper Lawsuit using the Netbenefit tool? -pensioncurious- Comment 11/06/09: >>The complacency of folks who call or called themselves IBM employees is disturbing. -da_facts- Isn't it incredible, -da_facts-? Just THINK how it would look in the media if 16,000 *SIXTEEN THOUSAND* people who were FIRED for no cause marched in Washington against the tyranny they were subjected to in 2009? But guess what? The firees are still afraid, the retirees are afraid, and the current employees are afraid. The day is coming for all of us firees and retirees to realize what IBM has done to us in terms of COLA (none) and pension benefits (three reductions in formula) and health benefits (raped), especially those raped by the FHA of 1999. We will be dependent on Medicare, if we make it and if it is there, and WE will have to pay for a secondary, since IBM raped us of the secondary insurance, such as it is, provided to those who were grandfathered in 1999, and denied to those of us who were PROMISED a lifetime retiree medical but raped of it in 1999. Yup, -da_facts-, simply incredible. -ignatz713- Comment 11/05/09: -long time beemer- I am not retired yet so don't have access to the retiree insurance package but there is a tool on netbenefits that will give you an estimate of the retiree medical costs for 2010. Go to netbenefits.com > Health & Insurance > What to do when life events > Preview Retirement > enter a date in 2010 > click on preview button This will give you a list of prices for each medical option. Mine shows $647.45/month for IBM Medium Deductible PPO - CIGNA -anonymous- Comment 11/04/09: Can somebody who has the retiree insurance package tell me what the insurance cost is per month in 2010 for a retiree only? -long time beemer- Comment 11/02/09: Retired by RA in 2009. Just received my "retiree" medical benefits choices only to find out that my pension (after 30 years) won't cover the cost. My one regret in life is working for IBM for 30 years. I would have done better retiring from the Post Office. Who knew? -Retired by RA- Alliance reply: Who knew? Actually a lot of people. This didn't happen overnight. It is one reason why we have been pushing for a union and a contract. It is also why we continually remind visitors here: AT WILL EMPLOYEE=no voice=no contract=you are screwed by IBM. It's also why we hear from IBMers RA'd, "retired early" and those just fired: "I should have listened to Alliance@IBM when they told me to ORGANIZE!" Comment 11/01/09: -Exodus2007- Nice point about "... that IBM will not provide raises to retirees unless forced to by a contract..." That's a fact. You are so right! I still can't understand then why IBM retirees or those IBMers who have been forced out of IBM who will have some IBM retirement benefits are still not joining the Alliance in numbers. The complacency of folks who call or called themselves IBM employees is disturbing. -da_facts- Comment 10/28/09: I certainly do not mind a comment. My comments were not a punch in the face but a statement of facts I found when I retired in 2007. I am truly sorry if it came across as a punch in the face. I admit it was meant to be a wake up call for people who feel the magic thirty will fix everything. All relative if you are PLANNING to retire at 30 years like I did.I expected SOME raise in the price, but to jump from $600.00 per month active employee to $1600.00 per month retired employee was a shock worthy of hitting the floor. By the way, this years retiree medical for top of the line coverage for a family of 4 is $2900.00 per month plus dental and vision if you want them. The mysterious bump may be a difference between age 55 retirement and age 55 plus 30 years. I saw no bump as I had 30 before age 55 and there is no way to fake out the estimator to see . Someone who will be 55 and retirement eligable before thirty years may notice a bump at 30 years of service. If so please post it so everyone may understand this better. My points being that even with a bump most folks will find it hard if not impossible to live on just the pension so plan accordingly. As far as organizing and pushing for a union contract with some raises for retirees, Most old retirees I talk to ( 10 to 20 years retired) have not seen a raise in the pension but have seen yearly raises in the medical costs that were free when most of them retired. My conclusion therefore is that IBM will not provide raises to retirees unless forced to by a contract. I make no appology for pushing folks to organize IBM the sooner the better as that is what this site is all about. That people can get information here is good but a clearly defined contract everyone could understand without a degree in accounting would be even better. Good luck with your quest for 30! -Exodus2007- Comment 10/28/09: It's sad that this forum is only to discuss what became of our pension for those IBMers who have one. Ask yourself this question: If pensions were so costly then why did IBM and other companies institute one and kept one through decades in the first place? Because they wanted to offer their people retirement security through deferred compensation since they valued their people's career contributions, worth as a person, and overall financial life planning. It's a shame this sentiment has went the way of how RESPECT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL has gone. Based on the volatility of the world stock markets which will affect your 401k it is clear that true retirement savings and benefit reform means we need to bring back the defined benefit pension plans. It is something we could collectively bargain with IBM. IBM executives still have a real pension. If they have theirs we should have ours. IBM boasts that their "greatest asset is our people" so they need to prove it! A real pension should be resurrected. -penny4thought- Alliance Reply: The only way a "real pension should be resurrected" is to have an employment contract that stiplates a "real pension" in writing. Before we get that, we have to organize IBMers to grow our numbers and then request an NLRB election OR if EFCA is passed, submit the signed cards stating that we want to be declared a certified union by the NLRB. Either way, a real pension resurrection won't be the first step. ORGANIZE! Comment 10/27/09: To anonymous: Thank you, sincerely this time. Although I continue to be confused by what you have directed me to, relative to what I read on the Net Benefits site, (specifically, that when I plug in pre and post 30 year time periods the result is the same), you have pointed out the source of my confusion. Of course, other than sites such as this, we have no place to go for dialogue and answers. I had assumed that frozen means frozen, yet there are many who believe the 30 year bump to still be a fact. That said I still don't know what is true or how to confirm. Of course, the chance of making 30 years.... Anyway, thank you for taking the time to offer what information you could find. I realize that there is a certain amount of stress on this site, relative to whether readers who have not joined the union should be allowed to participate. However, whether we have come to the same place relative to joining a union or not, if we are reading this site we have likely encountered the same unhappy circumstances. Whether this hope for unionization beyond it's present state is fulfilled or not, IMVHO, there is gain to be had within this forum to help us all navigate an untenable path. If nothing else, there is some comfort in not being alone. To exodus2007, your comments are usually highly informational and for that I thank you. But if you don't mind a comment, it is hard to get people to where you are with a punch to the face. Obviously, as the numbers for a union seem to be far away from what is needed, and seemingly stagnant, there are obstacles that may not be overcome in time. That said, I believe this site offers information and hope, which I believe has value. -hanginginthere- Comment 10/27/09: To hanginginthere, the following link from the yahoo ibmpension forum contains some of the details on how the "bump" is calculated. The conversion factor that is used to calculate your annuity was not affected by the pension freeze. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/message/66188 -anonymous- Comment 10/23/09: Gee, thanks guys! -hanginginthere- Comment 10/23/09: I think the " BUMP " is the sound of your body hitting the floor when you find out how little you get and how much you get charged for retiree medical. I know of cases where the Medical coverage costs more then the monthly pension pays. The shock of finding out how blatently you were lied to over the years is enough to make even the stoutest among us to faint. Your " LIFETIME " medical is no longer free. Your " FULL " pension at 30 years service is no longer full as it is reduced if you are not 65. It was further reduced by the pension heist of 1999. If you have your 30 years and can keep working you will be wise to do so until you can get Social Security. You certainly will see no Pension increase from IBM. Ramp up your efforts to organize if you have your 30 years in. Your pension is locked then and if a union gets in place before you retire you may be able to get some cost of living raises for retirees put in place before you go. Make your retirement one hell of a lot easier. Worst case is IBM severs you for organizing. The CWA would enjoy handing a good case to its lawyers and you may become rich beyond your wildest dreams. You would still get your pension. You would probably get severance pay also. You may even get a union hall named after you!! Or have your name engraved in the Executive Bathrooms urinal!!. Either way its a win win. -Exodus2007- Comment 10/23/09: Well, to be blunt, I wouldn't worry about this "bump": First off the pension plans are frozen. IBM is not contributing to it. Nothing to "bump up" here now. Most, if not all, IBMers will not hit 30 years of service when in the personal pension plan or even the old defined benefit pension plan. IBM will make sure of it, generally by it's continued and accelerating RA actions. So practically no chance of any "bump" anyhow. If you want a real bump in pension and retirement benefits then get an employment contract. To d this you need to be organizing and joining this union now! -anonymous- Comment 10/21/09: Another detail that I don't understand. I read throughout the various IBM sites that there is a "bump" in the old plan at 30 years. Although that is still a few years off, and nothing is certain, I have run the numbers at Net Benefits and see no change at all pre and post 30 years. Can anyone shed light on this topic, please? -hanginginthere- Comment 10/05/09: -Skilled AmericanWorker- You of course have your quarterly statements showing your balances prior to 1997 don't you? You would also have continued to receive statements after that as long as the monies were still invested with the plan so you would also have those. This is what the law refers to as proof. If you have said proof, you can sue with a very high degree of confidence, that you will win and receive your money; as you would have records and IBM does not. If you do not have said proof then you have screwed yourself; as no one I know of would not keep a bankbook or a CD 's paperwork or a statement of an account to prove they have said money deposited or are entitled to it. No court would believe said money existed without proof. Time to dig through old papers and tax records maybe and find some ironclad evidence. -Exodus2007- Comment 10/03/09: URGENT QUESTION: Is anyone else who was laid off, a re-hire to IBM? Are they screwing you on your 401k/Retirement/savings plan account???? Before I was laid off in Feb 2009, I repeatedly asked IBM management, HR, and senior IBM execs to explain why my 401K/pension/Savings Plan/retirement account (or whatever you want to call it) balance only showed since 1997 and did not reflect my 12 years of service prior to that. IBM sent me in circles and refused to answer my questions. Now - Sept 30 (8 months after being laid off), I received a package from IBM Armonk saying they 'HAVE NO RECORDS" on my 401K/retirement account/savings plan balance prior to 1997!! No records = no money SO WHERE DID MY 401K/savings plan/ retirement MONEY GO???? I was under the new plan (not the old pension plan - I missed the old one by 4 days). I had 12 years of service with IBM prior to being rehired. I was told in 1997 that they were giving me credit for the prior years of service for all benefits including pension, 401K, vacation, savings plan, etc..... Did IBM do this to anyone else? -Skilled AmericanWorker- Comment 09/01/09: I got a letter saying my "raise" was complex and it would be resolved in 3 to 6 months. Now at a year and heard nothing. -Anonymous- Comment 08/26/09: If I was you and you leave IBM; I would take the cash pension out before IBM tries to get their hands on more of it! You need to get control of it. You can bet IBM will try another pension heist if they can't get to the target EPS by end of 2010. -anonymous- Comment 08/16/09: Any opinions about how FHA might be affected by the health reform? -anonymous- Alliance Reply: FHA is an IBM run program. The Federal Gov't has no control over IBM's policies. That said; IBM may choose to discontinue the FHA plan, if the final Health Care Reform bill gets passed and includes similar or better options than IBM's FHA. It's totally up to IBM. Without a union contract, that would specify benefits and their coverage; IBM employees have NO CONTROL over what IBM does, as a result of any future Health Care Reform bill. Comment 08/09/09: Actually if you are lucky to just make the Quarter Century Club IBM might as well give you a "bullseye" shirt to wear so to speak as your anniversary gift! IBM doesn't want you to make 30 years or work till your 55 years old. They want to do everything to stop you from getting the FHA and any enhanced pension annuities. By doing so they make more profits and more profits means more stock option value for Sam and the Armonk posse. I believe their are a lot of folks RA'ed that made the Quarter Century Club only to be be RA'ed soon thereafter. -30years?- Comment 08/08/09: I agree with this comment from the Alliance: For many, the 30 year mark is never seen. In fact, as I look back at my departure from IBM, I see that my colleagues with 30+ years who were on the old plan, were kept, while I was laid off. When I think about this, I wonder whether this was due, in part, to the fact that had I stayed at IBM, my 'cost' would have gone up in a few years. My coworkers 'cost', on the other hand, had been 'frozen' with the old pension. Still, I don't think IBM leadership is smart enough to do that math. -RA'ed already- Comment 08/08/09: Even though IBM froze the pension, the 30 year bump still applies. When the pension freeze was announced, I sent that specific question to HR and received confirmation that the bump still happens even after the freeze. If you run net benefits estimates before and after your 30 year anniversary, you will see the bump (close to 25% in a lot of cases). -GotItInWriting- Alliance Reply: For many, the 30 year mark is never seen. They get fired, outsourced before the are eligible to reach that service year. Comment 08/07/09: Those IBMers with less than 30 years of service get no chance at the Enhanced Annuity? Is this correct? IBM froze the pension and thus the Enhanced Annuity in this example is mute. Correct? The only ones who could get the Enhanced Annuity are those dopes who opted to take the Cash Balance Plan over the existing defined benefit plan and screw themselves out of thousands of $$$. This is true. -anonymous- Comment 08/07/09: -Outsourced at 29 years under new plan- Yes, you lose FHA since you were born too late and you have to be at least 55 years old even though you have about double the required years of service for the FHA. Once IBM did this cash balance travesty they "figured this all out" and applied it to the FHA as well. For instance, any IBM who was 39 years old with 21 years of service in 1999: They got discriminated against based on their age and were forced to the cash balance plan when folks at 40 years old with only 10 years of service got a pension choice and a better pension with the established defined benefit plan. This employed person would now be 49 years old and have 31 years of service and fall in to your plight as well though IBM would try to consider them "retired" to screw them out of the COBRA subsidy. IBM will do whatever it can to legally screw it's employees. Fair company this IBM? -discriminator- Comment 08/06/09: 29 years service and 48 years of age ..was switched to "new" pension plan in 99 ....laid off last week. Lose Future Health account? Also, not able to retire under new plan due to age!? Any thoughts??? -Outsourced at 29 years under new plan- Comment 07/09/09: I doubt you will get even an additional penny from IBM. The assistance of a lawyer who specializes in disability cases may get you SSI benefits if you do not get enough to live on. Your disability would have to meet Social Security guidelines for this I believe. A free consultation with a lawyer would be in order most likely. -Exodus2007- Comment 07/08/09: I was unaware of the Pension Freeze. But I would, however, like to know that since I was forced to take early retirement because of health reasons. I don' t get enough to live on. Is there a way to get retirement pension increased. Some tell me yes and some tell me no. What is your take? Thank you -Anonymous- Comment 07/08/09: The UK git hit: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/07/ibm_final_salary_pension_killed/ -LittleBlue- Comment 07/08/09: IBM UK announced the closure of the final salary pension schemes after close of business yesterday: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/07/ibm_final_salary_pension_killed/ Employees are being offered the chance to join the money purchase scheme. The nasty part is a proposal to change the early retirement options for the deferred benefits. The whole package looks like an attack on older employees - to force out as many as possible at no cost to the company, and reduce the cost of benefits for those older employees who choose to stay. -Anonymous UK- Comment 07/06/09: IBM Re-invents the 401(k): http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_28/b4139058355275.htm -miss understanding- Comment 07/04/09: Agreed. Burning it up asap may be the best move for some. It sure would not be the first thing promised by IBM that disappeared. Live better work Union. -Exodus2007- Comment 07/02/09: You said it, -burn_FHA_asap- And, for those of us laid off (aka 'RA'ed) within 6 months of qualifying for the FHA funds that were Supposedly being accrued for us - KUDOs and **** you to IBM HR! You ARE SO capable in screwing over your employees, Randy MacD must be so pleased. I'll leave it to you, HR and Randy, to define what 'pleased' means. Is your wife happy? Do you have one? Did you lay her off? -Kudos to -burn_FHA_asap-- Comment 07/01/09: Exodus2007, in regards to FHA, another way to think about it is to burn it down as quickly as possible. Just because you have 10 years to use it doesn't mean it will be there. It is not in any way protected (ERISA) and can be cancelled anytime. -burn_FHA_asap- Comment 07/01/09: To -long time beemer- You can elect to use the FHA money to cover from zero percent to 100 percent of the monthly premium. The price is so high for covering a family of four it will be exhausted in less then 2 years if you do 100 percent. Last time I looked at IBM retiree coverage it was 1600 per month for the same coverage levels I had while working and I am sure it has gone up since. I personally elected to use my wifes coverage and not use any IBM coverage for now. My understanding is I have up to 10 years to start using FHA before I lose it. A lot depends on how many you are covering of course. For just yourself I am sure its a lot less then my price for 4 people. Hope this answers your question. -Exodus2007- Comment 06/26/09: Has anybody tapped into the Future Health Account when they retired yet ? I am curious what the cost of insurance is when you are paying for it with the FHA. -long time beemer- Comment 06/04/09: 401k+ plan transitional credits end on 6/30/2009 according to the NetBenefits IBM 401k+ plan description. -sby_willie- Comment 05/28/09: Concerning the IBM pension transition credit (from 1%-4%): I think you mean the 401k+ transition benefit. Yes, it ends in 9/2009 I think. We got a real freeze dried pension and this transition credit is another thing we lose. -anonymous- Comment 05/27/09: Re: Pension Guaranty Fund - yes, this is true, but only for current retirees. For those still working for IBM, if (not likely) IBM went bankrupt, the pension fund is fair game for restructuring or creditor attachment. So current employees do not benefit from the PGF. I believe this to be the case - after all, just look at the airlines and all those pilots and flight attendants who lost their pensions in the restructuring. This is why I recommend those of you who were RAed or left for other reasons (you can't do this if you still work for IBM) who have the "cash balance" pension, take it ALL out now and roll it into some qualified plan like an IRA. If you don't, you can bet IBM lawyers are hard at work trying to find more loopholes to take more of it back. Get it out of their hands and take what you're owed and do with it what YOU want. Sorry, got a little carried away there. You get the idea... -RAed in Jan- Comment 05/24/09: Doesn't the IBM pension transition credit (from 1%-4%) end soon? If so, we continue to lose more pension. -anonymous- Comment 5/06/09: If a company goes bankrupt, like say what is happening at Chrysler, what happens to the pension plan? Not to say IBM will go bankrupt but one never knows. -anonymous- Alliance Reply: The Pension Guarantee Fund continues to pay out the pensions as long as the Fund has enough money to cover them oevr time. In IBM's case, there is still enough pension money in the fund to cover pensions for the people eligible to retire now and beyond. Comment 4/30/09: Anyway to unfreeze the IBM pension plans? -anonymous- Comment 4/29/09: -IBMpensioner- The proposal by Earl Mongeon Jr. did not pass but garnered a more than respectable 43.14% of shareholder support for it. Curious that IBM is different than some other big corporations that are part of CWA. For instance, Verizon. Verizon's board of directors actually listened to it's stockholders and took basically this same IBM stockholder proposal off their proxy (didn't allow a proxy vote) and agreed to leave pension vapor profits out of the Verizon executive compensation calculations back in 2003. -sby_willie- Alliance reply: You obviously understand very clearly, that CWA has a great deal of power and voice, within the company and the shareholders meeting as well. If IBMers would just realize that "This could be us!"; if they organized and worked together for voice in their workplace and a contract to work by. It always makes us wonder. Thanks for your comment. Comment 4/28/09: How did the stockholder proposal on executive compensation (to exclude pension income from the calculations) at today's stockholder meeting? I heard IBM authorized another $3,000,000,000 for a stock buyback but no longer contributes to the IBM employee pension plans. Stock buybacks are a waste of shareholder $. -IBMpensioner- Comment 04/15/09: As the furious debate increases over The Employee Free Choice Act, it is important to remember: If the bill passes and is put into law, workers will have the right to CHOOSE between the Secret Ballot and Majority card sign. The Secret ballot WILL NOT BE "Done away with" as reported by Matt Lauer of NBC's Today show (clip point 5:17ms) in a discussion with Wal-Mart's CEO, Mike Duke: http://tinyurl.com/dj4gv2 Also, take the time to review some videos from http://www.nobusters.org/, a look from the inside of the methods that union busters use and what outrageous amounts of money that companies will pay union busters in just a few short weeks or months; As told by a former union buster. These videos are a prime example of how low a company will stoop, to keep you from your rights as a worker; to form and join a union. The Employee Free Choice Act's passing is more important to working Americans than ALL the bailouts to Corporate Execs, combined. -Rick White Treasurer, Organizer, Web Maintenance and Health & Safety Rep CWA Local 1701 Alliance@IBM www.allianceibm.org- Comment 4/06/09: -IBMer until 4/27/09- 401(k) is not a pension plan. It is not covered by ERISA (Employee Retiree Income Secutiy Act) laws. -anonymous- Alliance reply: You are correct; however, this comment section is the most appropriate place for the 401(k) information, don't you think? Comment 4/06/09: I wonder how long it will be before IBM joins this list... http://www.pensionrights.org/pubs/facts/401(k)-match.html -IBMer until 4/27/09- Comment 3/27/09: Lee and team: Are you seeing more employees signing up? If you're reading this board, please consider joining Alliance. I did. It cost $10 a month. -Proud Alliance Member- Alliance reply: This week we gained 14 new members. 20 total for the month. Thanks to our new members. Let's add some more! Comment 3/16/09: -Need to Decide- I've got to echo what Exodus2007 said. Pension leveling is not good at any age. They will boost your pension income equal to what you will eventually receive with a pension plus social security. once the SS kicks in, they cut your pension down to much lower than you would get without leveling. The net is that inflation eats up your income, and you are in tough shape later on. The only way it is any good is if you know you are going to die before getting social security. Everyone I've known who selected it have regretted it later. If you can't live on your pension, you need to find some other source of income. Later, when SS kicks in at 62 or older, that will help cover the inflation that has decreased the value of your pension dollars. -Retired in 2006- Comment 3/16/09: Thanks to Exodus2007 for your response. I appreciate the input. -Need to Decide- Comment 3/16/09: I called Fidelity today. The fee only applies to certain investments. Call them to see if it affects you. -Exodus2007- Comment 3/16/09: In the 2008 IBM report under: http://www.ibm.com/annualreport/2008/note_u.shtml one can find that the IBM pension plans are underfunded by YE2008 by an amount of approx 20B$ (with obligations of 21,182 m$). Great detail, that is put under the carpet in the report -pension-threat- Comment 3/15/09: To -Need to Decide- In my opinion, income leveling is bad at any age. At 52 unless you have bad health problems you should be able to work a menial job of some kind to make up the difference income leveling would provide. Then at Social Security age you will get to keep your social security instead of giving it to IBM to pay for the income leveling. So that when you are truly too old to work you will have the income you need. If you are too ill to work at 52 get an SSA disability lawyer and look into filing for early SS Disability. Do not, in either case, give IBM your SS income for a small short term gain. A minimum wage job will give you over 800 per month. 52 is too early to fix your lifetime income level. -Exodus2007- Comment 3/15/09: Your IBM 401k+ is touted by IBM as a pension plan. This is not true. It is NOT a pension plan. Just a savings plan. It is not protected by pension laws covered under ERISA (Employee Retirement Income Security Act). So don't wonder why Fidelity is asking you to accept it's conditions and fees. Since under the present retirement income laws not covered under ERISA, it can. -takenote- Comment 3/14/09: Anyone know anything about the income leveling choice when you take your pension. I am only 52 and someone told me that at my age it would be a good thing to select. Anyone know anything about this as an option? Thanks in advance. -Need to Decide- Comment 3/09/09: I just went to view my 401K and got the demand that I accept Terms, Conditions and Fees window. It is clearly an informational issue; but I have a serious problem that unless and until I ACCEPT, they will deny me access and hold my funds hostage. It is explicit extortion. Idiot at Fidelity said it is just informational. I responded that it may be; but the bottom feeders in legal chose the wording for specific reasons. I don't need the funds right now so I am going to research filing a lawsuit via the fed for grand larceny. Just for sport!! -publius- Comment 2/25/09: Does anyone know how much the new monthly fees are on the netbenefits website? I have not checked off the "I Accept" button because I can't comprehend blindly agreeing to an undisclosed monthly fee. They do not state so much as a minimum or maximum. I am apparently not even allowed to update my performance pay election unless I agree blindly to this fee. Has anyone agreed and what was the result? Real fun that they send around a reminder just today to go in and update our elections by Friday. A$$HOLES. -FeeWhatFee?- Comment 2/25/09: FYI: Interest crediting rate for the frozen cash pittance plan in 2009: 2.8% For 2008 it was 5.2% -frozensolid- Comment 1/30/09: to -Ben Screwed-: I was fired from a company that IBM sold their Endicott, NY plant to: EIT. I was fired for union organzing and (CWA) we filed a ULP (unfair labor practice). In the meantime, I was also collecting my IBM vested rights pension...I also collected unemployment for 5 weeks (minus the pension amount); and then EIT blocked my benefits because they claimed I committed "misconduct". Since CWA filed a Federal case against EIT, I argued before a judge that my unemployment benefits should be restored because the "misconduct" arguement was not valid until the ULP case had been resolved. The judge agreed and restored my unemployment benefits. I even got 39 weeks total, instead of 26. You CAN fight for your benefits, even if you're in extreme circumstances like I was.. -former IBMer- Comment 1/30/09: Re: collecting unemployment if you get a pension... in NY State, the answer is NO. There are some minor exceptions to this, but if you have 34 years in, don't count on it. Go to https://ui.labor.state.ny.us/UBC/home.do to check it out. Once your pension starts, you are disqualified from receiving unemployment. Note that this isn't when you get your first pension check, since that's typically delayed a month or two. This is when your pension actually starts. So, if your pension starts in March, but you don't get your first payment until May, you are ineligible for unemployment starting in March, not May. -Ben Screwed- Comment 1/28/09: I just got RA'ed after 34+ years. I'm eligible for the old pension plan. Can I collect unemployment benefits while collecting pension? Is there anyone doing this? There is a FAQ on the NYS site that addresses it and it depends if IBM contirbuted more than 50 % toward the pension plan in the last 18 months -Anonymous- Comment 1/28/09: How come it does not make news when IBM asks the government for help with their pension fund while flying around in corp. jets? I guess the auto industry did not buy off the industry rags, Wash DC, etc. -Anonymous- Comment 1/26/09: It is outrageous that our pension fund management is petitioning the government for a handout after Sam & Lou stole $70+ BILLION out of it!!! Time to write congress and demand heads on pikes. -TM- Comment 1/25/09: To Soon-To-Be-Axed: if you're 52.5 years old and have 26 years of service, you have your vested pension which you can start drawing on right away. But if you run the numbers, you'll see it isn't very much. You have to be either 55 or have 30 years of service in to retire at full pension. If you have 29 years in, you can take a pre-retirement leave of absence to get to 30, or management might let you take a bridge if they separate you. But that doesn't apply to you. You're one of the unfortunate ones who really would get screwed. No full pension, and it's REAL hard to find a new job at your age. But just because you were appraised a 3 one time doesn't mean you'll get the ax, but it does mean the company is turning the screws on you to get you to quit so they won't have to pay you separation or count you as a lay off. That's called the "self selection program". And managers are trained in how to tighten those screws. -ben screwed- Comment 1/25/09: Jimmy, go to the ibmpension and ibmretiree boards on yahoo for help -beenpokedtoomanytimes- Comment 1/23/09: Retired from IBM 6/1/08 and became part of Infoprint. Then on 01/01/09, I switched over to the IBM retiree medical plan and guess what? I just found out that I have NO medical coverage! Called employee services and they said we'll contact your carrier. I then contacted my carrier, and they said since I didn't participate in the open enrollment, I don't have any coverage and I would have to wait for the next open enrollment period. Back to employee services and they say that I'm covered. This has been going on for over 2 weeks. I don't even wanna go into what I've shelled out-of-pocket for visits, prescriptions, etc. Answer to that was "submit them and we'll look into it" I don't have a clue of where to go next. I'm just riding a merry-go-round here. Looks like I'm fortunate enough that my wife has coverage and I'm being added to her policy, at a significant cost! So for all that have made changes effective 01/01/09, you better check on your coverage! -Jimmy- Comment 1/21/09: Anyone know the 'rules' on the old retirement plan if given a 3 for the first time in your career and aged 52.5 with 26 years service? I'm vested but exactly what will that mean if terminted? -Soon to be axed- Comment 1/11/09: Repeat after me. The laws are not going to help me. The elected officials are not going to help me. Even the union is not going to help me. Untill me and 51 percent or more of my co workers help themselves by joining the union and voting to be represented. When enough of us have signed up for a vote to be forced to happen, then someone will help us force IBM to be fair, save our jobs, protect our benefits and everything else we wish would happen. WE WILL HELP OURSELVES. United we stand, Divided we fall. One by one at IBM's will. At the time and place of IBM's choosing. One by one we get shown the door. Not even allowed to say goodbye to people we worked with 10,20,30 years or more. Put out like the trash and yet people still do not organize. People still believe they are better off standing alone. Better off pretending to negotiate benefits or payraises alone. You are not and never will be better off alone. "But I'm smarter then TOM and I'm faster then JOE and every chance I get I tell Management so" Now I have my work and Toms work and Joes work to do and I did not get a raise cuz it was too much to do. Tom and Joe got new jobs and seem happy to boot. Who was smarter then who ? Now ain't that a hoot. Life sure was good with Tom, Joe and Me every day. Wish we had unionized to keep it that way. -Exodus2007- Comment 1/11/09: BTW IBM resources, Any pension "transition credits" disappear later this year. Most of you don't even realise you got the transition credit or how much it is so I don't think you'll even mind. Now your frozen pension is even more frozen! You don't have to worry about it ever thawing now. Rest assured IBM has to do this to remain competitive in the global economy. I'm sure you understand and I know I can count on you to keep IBM competitive and profitable. <signed>. -RandyMac- Comment 12/30/08: RE this comment (see below), PLEASE ask your lawyer before you reject a bridge. If you are under the old defined benefit plan, AND perhaps in other circumstances, I DO *think* that you DO benefit from a bridge. So, re this comment , PLEASE first ask your lawyer, or at least read the details of the offer IBM presents to you. I hope my comment is helpful; I'm not sure what the original poster had in mind. ORIGINAL POST: (For those that are retirement eligible do not sing the bridge agreement as your retirement benefits are already frozen and you receive no benefits from this bridge) -ask yr lawyer- Comment 12/26/08: Exit packages may contain a bridge agreement. For those that are retirement eligible do not sing the bridge agreement as your retirement benefits are already frozen and you receive no benefits from this bridge. Check first with the assigned separation Project Office if this is OK. It should not affect you receiving your severance checks. -Anonymous- Comment 12/18/08: Has anyone but me got a problem with IBM's 401k Fidelity program? Fidelity fund tracking is horrbly slow and singular compared to Hewitt's. But the real issue here that kills me is Fidelity's EXCESSIVE TRADING policy!!! You are not able to move your money to different funds before they lock you out cold (into fixed category). How on earth is this legal? This is my money! I want to put it where I want it when I want it there! Was this some kind of cheap fund management deal between IBM and Fidelity? How dare they. What can we do? I'm scared to get out because I won't be able to get back in! But I can't afford to loose anymore of my hard earned money. I just wish we could have Hewitt back and we could pay for extra trades if we want to trade. I mean 15-20 trades a year I averaged is not to me excessive day trading! WHAT CAN WE DO? -g1m1r1- Comment 12/10/08: Are you freakin' kidding me? Are these jerks serious? I just read an article posted on the front page of alliance's web site, titled: Pension Funds Beg Congress to Suspend Billions in Contributions Guess who one of the companies asking for this is?: IBM Here's an excerpt: "Pension funds at Pfizer Inc., International Business Machines Corp., United "Parcel Service Inc. and dozens of other companies have joined the parade of businesses seeking relief from Congress amid this year’s economic meltdown. About 800 companies in the Standard & Poor’s 1500 Index have pension funds, and they were collectively $280 billion short of the sums needed to pay projected benefits as of Nov. 30, according to a study by New York-based benefits consulting firm Mercer LLC. Those 800 funds started the year with a $60 billion surplus, Mercer estimated. To gain help from Congress, the companies will have to overcome skeptics who say they are using the market plunge to undermine retirement-funding provisions in a 2006 law they didn’t like in the first place." This really requires an action page from Alliance or someone... We need to scream like hell to make sure congress hears us! -Ubuntu2u2 Comment 12/10/08: Anyone run their retirement estimator lately? My residual amount went up about 400$/month from a month ago . Everything else is unchanged. 3 others with 30+ years confirmed this same thing. Rumors , of course, that you will need to retire from IBM ( within x months ) iif you want the current annuity/lump sum. After that date, it's all cash balance. Food for thought. -homerj- Comment 12/09/08: IBM is using the latest financial crisis to lobby US Congress to seek revisions to the Pension Protection Act (PPA) of 2006. The PPA amended ERISA of 1974 making provisions to ensure retiree pensioners would get the earned retirement benefits in the defined benefit plans. IBM is asking Congress to amend or eliminate portions of the law that they say will help aviod job cuts by eliminating the provision that requires IBM to full fund the pension plan within seven years during shortfalls. Please write your senator and house representative and say NO to this! Also, tell them you urge the support for HR1322 (Emergency Retiree Health Benefits Protection Act) and HR6643 (Pension Protection Act) before it is too late. -protectpensions- Comment 12/08/08: IBM Medicare eligible retirees should compare the IBM health plan offers against what is offered on the open market. You might be surprised that IBM may have overlooked a much better coverage and, so far haven't responded to my questions or suggestions. Other than a person from Fidelity promising me they will pass my concerns on to IBM. When I received the IBM 2009 health plan packet. As usual I compared the IBM/Humana package offer for Puerto Rico to the plans that are available to any Medicare participant in P.R. As in the past I found it very difficult finding any person knowledgeable of the Humana/IBM plan either at IBM (800-796-9876) of at Humana (Tel provided by IBM to call for info. 800-824-8242). With persistence I did finally get the information. Reading the limited information provided by IBM (on one face of a page) and information provided by Humana about the IBM group plan I found two much better plans can be obtained directly from Humana for any Medicare recipient in PR. The monthly cost of these plans are $23.00 for PFFS or $28.00 for PPO. I feel IBM has really failed in it's promise to help find the best health coverage for IBM retirees. Could this be a prejudice against retirees in hopes that they will not use the IBM plans so that IBM can save the costs? Or is it incompetence of the office responsible for finding health plans for IBM retirees? Would it not be better and less expensive for IBM to take the money it might spend for it's Humana package and disburse it to PR retires for the sole purpose of purchasing a local Humana package? Don't send money instead send credit letter for Humana for the retiree to use. Less chance of any possibility for fraud, "kickbacks", or anything else illegal. -Anonymous- Comment 11/21/08: pension interest crediting is "T-bill +1%". So next year this interest on the frozen pension will be almost 40% less than it is now IMHO, So with our 401k+ balances down in shambles due to the stock market and credit crisis our frozen pension will be accruing less as well. At least not at a $$$ loss. But by the "time value of money" test it does lose $$$ to inflation. -anonymous- Comment 11/20/08:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/business/economy/20pension.html?em IBM would like relief for it's frozen pension plan -WannaRetireSomeday- Comment 11/04/08: Ref: "Can I take an inservice tax-deferred withdrawal and pay someone to manage my 401k at IBM?" -Jason T- If you are 59.5 or better, you can xfer money from your 401K to any other management company. (Vanguard, Fidelity, etc) It has to be a company-to-company transfer and that company can walk you through the process. Do not just withdraw and invest! If you are younger, then I don't believe it's possible unless you leave the company. -Neal Watkins- Comment 11/03/08: Can I take an inservice tax-deferred withdrawal and pay someone to manage my 401k at IBM? -Jason T- Comment 10/31/08: So for all you who think the IBM 401K+ plan is an adequate replacement for your now frozen pension plan or for those newer IBMers who didn't get a chance in the pension plans: The IBM 401K+ plan investments are not protected by law like pensions are with ERISA (employee retirement income security act). The IBM 401k+ plan balances are is not insured like a pension plan is. Pension plan benefits year-to-year do not go down. There is something called "wearaway" but the pension amount does not lose investment fund balance like a 401k+ can and most likely did for most of us who were at least somewhat invested in the stock market this year. I have doubts that a 401k plan is a safe, sound retirement planning benefit. If the stock market never comes back to previous levels then our retirement savings are most likely severely compromised. I would like to get the IBM pension back. With a union contract we can negotiate with IBM and might have a chance to get our pension back or at least to have IBM unfreeze it for full pension benefits. IBM made an implied promise (I wish I had it in writing) of deferred compensation to us with their pension plan. We should hold them to their promise. -givemebackpension- Comment 10/29/08: IBM Pension Plan: Form 5500 Schedule H for 2006: Value on Jan 1, 2006: $48,541,732,077 Value on Dec 31, 2006: $52,909,773,120 Net Income for 2006: $4,368,041,042 info available at freeERISA.com -Anonymous- Comment 10/28/08: Judge Changes Pension Plans of Older Retirees So They Get Less: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Judge-Changes-Pension-Plan-by-Sherwood-Ross-081027-735.html -PensionLess- Comment 10/22/08: TO: I am under 50. You can "take" your cash balance account outside of IBM, but be careful. Your cash balance is a retirement acct. If you "Cash out" the account and allow IBM to write you a check, all of that money is immediately subject to taxes AND because you are under 59.5, subject to tax penalties. If you "roll it over" into another IRA type account and never touch the check, the full balance is moved away from IBM but not subject to taxes. When my husband left IBM several years ago we rolled his 401K into a simple IRA acct at the local credit union until he could set up the actual IRA investments he wanted. -Another Under 50- Comment 10/21/08: I am under 50. Should I get laid off, can I cash my Cash Balance Plan in immediately for one lump sum? I am not looking for a yearly annuity. Has anyone cashed in their cash balance plan. If so, were there any lessons learned? -Anon- Comment 10/09/08: http://www.planadviser.com/compliance/article.php/2962 Once again, the Supreme Court has refused to hear a challenge of cash balance conversions... -Ex-IBMer- Comment 10/04/08: I don't think any of us folks wonder why you want a union contract....we're all here supporting the same thing. We know!! :) -re anonymous- Comment 10/01/08: At least the frozen pension doesn't lose money as much as my 401k+ "pension replacement" plan does! And you folks wonder why I want a union contract with a provision for a pension? -anonymous- Comment 9/23/08: I have the CB (cash Balance plan) so as I understand it (from the www.netbenefits.com Fidelity site) I can take a measly monthly annuity about $500 a month that I can start to collect when my IBM employment is over on the day after: forced or not. That's about the only thing with the cash balamce plan offers than the old defined benefit pension when you have to wait till retirement age to collect. Unless IBM is giving me more bull&^%$ about the CB plan. I could also choose to collect the CB at retirement age but IBM will probably find a way to raid it. They did it once and they can certainly do it again. -pension_what_pension?- Comment 9/20/08: to -pension_what_pension?- The 26 years does not help. Untill you hit 30 years you do not get " FULL" pension. By the way the "FULL" pension at 30 years is penalized unless you are age 65. This winds up meaning its age more then years that adds up. Someone with 25 years age 55 got the same pension more or less that I got with 30 years under age 55. In your case as the pension is frozen I do not know how much it will grow but your " early" pension would by 30 years of service. If you happen to leave the company I believe at 55 you can draw a reduced pension. At 48 and 26 you can not draw an immediate pension as far as I know. -Exodus2007- Comment 9/18/08: Go-Blue: If you are in the old pension plan as a choicer you still lost some of your full pension in 1995. IBM changed the formula on you then. Were you aware of this? -sby_willie- Comment 09/18/08: No, I am not in the cash balance plan. As I said, I have the full pension that employees get at 55 and 15 or more years service. -Go Blue- Comment 9/18/08: I'm 48 years old with 26 years in IBM. I finally looked at my pension if I quit working tomorrow. It's about $500 a month. How can this be? If I was unemployed I would get $405 in NY state for a WEEK. So I am joining the Alliance. What do I have to lose? If IBM RA's me, I get more in umemployment beneifts than I would for 26 years of hard and honest work for this cheap as s**t company! Without a union I am probably better off being RA'ed with a severance package. -pension_what_pension?- Comment 9/9/08: Arrowrod, here's the rub: IBM's cant of paying top dollar to retain the best is just lip service. IBM does not pay for skills and increasingly does not pay for education to acquire those skills. While I agree that we should be developing our skills with or without anyone's "help", IBM becomes a hinderance to that development process when they require long hours of tedious work and instant availability, cut overtime pay, cut education, then turn around and cut hours and headcount while TimGunning at you to "make it work, people" as if just saying it will make it so. Finding the time and money to develop highly marketable skills is a daunting proposition for many who are trying to figure out which bills to pay late in order to make the mortgage payment. Trying to get a straight answer as to what constitutes marketable skills is another issue as IBM does not value the same skills as the marketplace. IBM values IBM-specific skills and they want you to polish those skills on your own dime and on your own time, even though they are of no use outside IBM and even within IBM may be considered just the flavour of the month. One can only imagine that perhaps you retired during some vaunted "golden age" of IBM when there was a magical I/T career track which actually made sense, was attainable through hard work and had a clear goal at the end. -trackless- Comment 9/4/08: I do not believe arrowrod is saying screw anyone. I think he is saying if you truly have " Marketable" job skills you should be marketing them to your own advantage rather then exclusively for IBM. I agree with arrowrod in that if someone can market their skills for more money and better benefits and they do so IBM may be forced to raise pay and benefits to retain people and their competative advantage. WE are IBM's Competative advantage. Our knowledge and skills are what sets IBM apart from HP, Xerox, Dell etc. Without us IBM just makes and sells Inferior Business Machinery with no technical support to make it worth its high price. If you have crazy mad skills why would you put up with IBM's crap? If you have good, solid skills like most of us then you need to organize to get fair treatment and continue to do your good solid jobs. -Exodus2007- Comment 9/3/08: Re:-arrowrod-, Hmmmm... so you got yours and screw everybody else? -Neal Watkins- Comment 9/1/08: I am kind of confused. Before I retired, my fellow co-workers were college graduates. All I see here are whiners. When I left, I worked for a couple of years as a contractor. Do you contributors have marketable skills or not? You certainly aren't going to get rich waiting for IBM to take care of you. -arrowrod- Alliance Reply: Would that be a "No" vote for a union? Please elaborate. Comment 8/20/08: Employee phone numbers and email addresses are publicly searchable by anyone: http://www.ibm.com/contact/employees/us/ -Anon- Comment 8/19/08: Anyone with pension questions and don't know where to go or what to do, go to http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/ and post a note with your situation. Typically if you get a runaround from HR, contacting the Pension Plan Administrator via certified letter will get you a response within 30 days. The crew at IBMPENSION will be happy to assist you. Good luck -frank- Comment 8/19/08: It would be nice if you provided Randy Macdonalds number for the poor lady whose deceased husband worked for IBM. She probably has no access to company directories or even a local manager as she was not an employee. She absolutely does deserve better by the way. Certainly better than being told she is probably SOL.. -Exodus2007- Comment 8/19/08: -Anonymous- I really hate to hear things like this and the treatment you are getting: you deserve much better. Call Randy MacDonald. If he doesn't help you then your probably SOL. With a union the union would be more than an effective liason to IBM HR and would get fair treatment for all: employed, retired, and for IBM dependents and survivors. -Anonymous- Comment 8/17/08: Friends of mine who retired earlier than 1993 have been notified they are receiving a raise in their pension. My husband died in 1993 while working at IBM after 31 years. When I called HR to find out why I hadn't received a raise, the girl said that those who received one would be notified. I have not been notified, nor have I ever received a raise (my friends have received several!!) yet, the year of my husband's death should have qualified me if I use the criteria stated. She kept the reason a BIG SECRET! Can I find out why or why not I am not eligible for such an increase? HR was certainly not helpful. Thanks. -Anonymous- Comment 8/04/08: I wonder if the content of the article on today's home page, Companies Tap Pension Plans To Fund Executive Benefits (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121761989739205497.html) is the real reason behind IBM increasing the pension benefits of those who retired prior to 1997? -JustMe- Comment 8/03/08: No problem. I am very glad you asked instead of just blindly attacking my statement . Understanding each others point of view is paramount to organizing. Notice I did not say accepting. We as human beings will never be in 100 percent agreement with each other but if we understand why someone disagrees it allows us to be civil to one another and discuss our differences to find a compromise. Or to agree to disagree and move on to better things. All of which add immensly to our own quality of life. Lead the way. CWA today!! -Exodus2007- Comment 8/02/08: Hi Exodus 2007, I DID misunderstand you... my mistake. : ) I thought you meant that IBM stated the new plans didn't involve a reduction in benefits. They did have some type of mandatory ERISA statement disclosing that this was notice of a reduction in benefits... I don't recall the exact text. And you're also right, the sample planning assumptions seem optimistic now. I also agree with many posters here, that the planning assumptions are not accurate. I think it is best to assume low rates of increase - that is, model the worst case scenario when estimating. So, sorry for mis-understanding your earlier comment. -Ooops- Comment 8/02/08: For -to clarify comment by exodus 2007- Which part is incorrect? The 4k a year difference is correct. The planning examples that tout 3,4 5 percent raises or more per year to make things look rosy is correct but is a lie as the rank and file employees affected by the plan changes did not see those levels of raises yearly to drive the annuity values IBMs examples predicted. The point is if your pensions were defined by a contract you would know to the penny what you would be getting and would really be able to plan for retirement in a realistic manner and not based on what you might get if IBM doesn't take it away from you. As we have no contract we get what the contract calls for, nothing. I was at first put in the cash balance plan, no choice. Then because I was 40 years old I got to choose which plan. The paperwork sent to me was a cash balance sales pitch pushing how good the cash balance plan was and how it was a better choice then the old pension plan. By the way, it was a totally different package then when I was just put in the cash balance plan with no choice. Splitting hairs I suppose you could call it just deliberately misleading rather then a lie but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.... well to me that makes it a duck. -Exodus 2007- Comment 8/01/08: To this Comment 7/30/08: IBM's financial planning tools are ALWAYS a lie. I loved the cash balance versus old plan paperwork. Cash balance yearly annuity at 65 was 4 thousand a year less then the old pension at age 50. 15 years more work for 4 grand less a year. But the paperwork boldly stated that the cash balance plan was the better choice. Yeah right. I guess everyone gets what the contract calls for. -Exodus 2007- My commment: When the cash balance plan was announced in 1999, and again when the plans were all frozen in 2007/2008, all of the employee communications clearly stated that this was a reduction in benefits under ERISA. While I certainly don't AGREE with the reduction; I believe your statement is incorrect. Or perhaps I do not understand the point you are trying to make. -to clarify comment by exodus 2007- Comment 8/01/08: -Jackie-: Do you mind sharing what you got for a raise? I got a big fat 0%. PBC 2+ I/T Specialist making in the mid 60K's after 20 years in IBM. I'm also trying to cope with the IBM "pay remix" which means I have to work 4+ hours more a week to earn what I used to make as full salaried. My management limits or round robins the OT amongst my dept. so for OT I am lucky to get more than 4 hours OT a week. I don't want your sympathy. Only some empathy from yourself for those less fortunate come IBM pay raise time. -IBM_IT_vet- Comment 8/01/08: For those that think it is wise to invest your 401k+ heavily in IBM stock to make up what you are losing due to a frozen pension. Just look at this website: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=IBM If IBM is such a good investment and a good place to place your money on then why are the executives exercising and selling more than buying more IBM stock with their money? -nuther_enron?- Comment 8/01/08: Update: I had previously posted my 401K portfolio which has been a static allocation for this year: Roughly equally invested across: 1) PIM FOREIGN BOND UNHEDGED 2) PIM COMMODITY REAL RET 3) VANG INFL PROT ADM I just got the mid-year statement and it tells me that YTD I am up 12% ... I don't own any IBM stock ... I am agnostic about its performance potential - IBM to be sure is a screwed up company ... but remember I think its competition is equally screwed up by-and-large so the playing field is "level".... I do not invest in IBM stock as I want more diversification ... I already get my PAYCHECK there, I don't want my investment returns hinging on the same company.... Stock OPTIONS on IBM would be a diff. story but ... nobody is offering them to little-old-me ;-/ I'm no financial advisor nor do I play one on TV, but I do think this is a reasonably conservative mix, and also are good asset classes to hold in the 401k due to the way the 401k will be taxed on withdrawal and the nature of the assets...... -Anon- Comment 7/31/08: Good for you -Jackie- . You are either new in your job or grossly underpaid for your band if you got over 3 percent. You have, however, missed the point. The point is, that if the numbers and financial models you are given to plan your future retirement on, are all lies, you will be eating dog food on even days and going hungry on odd days while you sleep under a bridge. Not doing anything about it until you are near retirement age is financial suicide as some poor folks are finding out this year as housing and energy costs drive inflation through the roof. Trust me on this as a 30 year vetran of IBM. You may get real nice raises early in your career but the older you get the smaller the raises and the longer the time between them so plan your future accordingly. The gravy train does dry up. -Exodus 2007- Comment 7/30/08: Didn't IBM give us in the 401k+ planning tool last year a 2.75% annual raise rate to plan with when they forze our pensions? Then why did most of us get less than 1/3 of that this year as a raise? Maybe some of you got 1/3. I got a lot more than 1/3 -Jackie- Comment 7/30/08: IBM's financial planning tools are ALWAYS a lie. I loved the cash balance versus old plan paperwork. Cash balance yearly annuity at 65 was 4 thousand a year less then the old pension at age 50. 15 years more work for 4 grand less a year. But the paperwork boldly stated that the cash balance plan was the better choice. Yeah right. I guess everyone gets what the contract calls for. -Exodus 2007- Comment 7/27/08: Didn't IBM give us in the 401k+ planning tool last year a 2.75% annual raise rate to plan with when they forze our pensions? Then why did most of us get less than 1/3 of that this year as a raise? So what are our chances of believing that this planning figure they gave us was even close to being truthful? IBM lies again. All our planning now goes out the window. And IBM doesn't care one bit. I'm in the Alliance and have been since 1999. And I still work for IBM. Let us expose the IBM lies to us. We can fight and get a decent retirement by getting a contract. -sby_willie- Comment 7/27/08: Don't go to heavy with 401k investment in IBM stock. DIVERSIFY. Remember Enron anyone? -Anon- Comment 7/24/08: Thank you Anon, that is good information to know. I have tried my hand in a few of those, but never that combination. I'm getting a better return rate with IBM stock doing well, we'll see how long that lasts. I'll give that a shot next time I change my contributions! -Anon- Comment 7/23/08: Regarding 401K returns.... I am roughly equally invested across: 1) PIM FOREIGN BOND UNHEDGED 2) PIM COMMODITY REAL RET 3) VANG INFL PROT ADM With this mix the NetBenefits site reports a year-to-date "personal rate of return" (how the heck ever that is calculated) of +7%. I consider this a pretty conservative allocation strategy, and am quite pleased. Past performance is no guarantee of future results etc etc etc... I have NOT changed my allocations this calendar year. No "market timing" was involved to drive the 7% I reported... -Anon- Comment 7/18/08: I have stayed in stable since the day I joined. Get my 5 percent a year and company match when I was working of 30 percent and I figured 35 percent was good enough for me. I have not lost a penny since I started contributing 18 years ago. I personally never understood the stock market so I did not play it with my hard earned money. It is too much of a herd mentality and has no rhyme or reason to me, but to each his own. -Exodus 2007- Comment 7/18/08: I suppose I don't even want to know what the pension plan used to be like, because I came in with the 401k+ plan anyway. My first 3 years, I was 100% stable value and have recently made some changes. Since then I've been doing nothing but losing money and getting letters from Fidelity regarding excessive trading/round-robin, whatever that means. I'm currently 70% in IBM stock after some moves, which is doing good for now. I'm going back to stable value at the end of the month and will keep it there until I can figure out something else. I suppose it doesn't help to be getting a 0% return, since you should be earning more than inflation, however losing $$ doesn't help either... -mo_problems- Comment 7/16/08: YES, 5% is doable. You needed to be mostly in stocks in February and March and in Stable all the rest of the time. 7.3 percent here. If you weren't almost 100% in Stable this month, you got your butt kicked. -mo_money- Comment 7/15/08: Yep, a positive YTD return in the 401k+ for this year doesn't seem possible unless you get lucky to "get in and get out" at the right times. The reason I am using 5% YTD hypothetical as a return is that is about the 5.2% that the the present yearly rate of return (.0433% or so at end of each month) for an existing frozen cash balance pension, well at least mine when last checked on netbenefits.com. So the 401k+ is a lame "replacement" for the IBM pension. Why am I not surprised they tried to smooth it over that the 401k+ can make up the retirement investment we lose with a frozen pension despite any of those transitional credits and auto contributions! Now can you see why I want an IBM union with a legal labor contract? We are CONTINUALLY LOSING ground as long as we let the thieves in Armonk continue to run rough shod over us for their own benefit! -Curious- Comment 7/14/08: I'd be just as interested to know whether or not anyone can get a positive return YTD, let alone 5%. Don't get too greedy now, what do you think this is, Starbucks? :) -Anonymous- Comment 7/13/08: Since the 401K+ is giving horridly bad returns (can anyone get a 5% return YTD since the pensions were frozen?) any chance we can get IBM to resume contributing to the pension plans and offer a pension to newer employees? Collective bargaining can get this for us, correct? -curious- Alliance Reply: Probably very little, if any chance that IBM will resume contributions to any pension plan or offer a new pension to new employees. IBM has spearheaded the move away from pensions, medical and other benefits; once enjoyed by IBM past employees. That said; Collective bargaining for a union contract between the IBM company and employees and their union reps is definitely an option. However, what must take place prior to that baragining, is a massive organizing campaign that successfully attracts a majority of IBM employees to join a union. in this case, it would be Alliance@IBM CWA. The amount of effort involved is no secret. It needs to be concerted and it needs to persevere through time. The employees are the ones that must step up and do the organizing, inside the company. It is best if they are union members and active employees, inside IBM. We have said previously, that US labor law requires a minimum of 30% of employees to sign union authorization cards; before the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) will allow a union election process to commence. Generally, unions don't ask for a vote until they acheive 60% or more signed cards. The irony is, that is the only way the employees can actually have a chance to negotiate for fair wages, salaries, benefits and working conditions. Individuals can claim they can do it alone; but the results in their favor are miniscule at best. Organize! Join Alliance@IBM Comment 7/08/08: Beth Steel went bankrupt. The pension plan was underfunded, so the feds had to take it over at one third the payout. If IBM goes bankrupt then it may happen. But IBM's pension fund is robust enough to give older retirees a raise; so I would think it is not underfunded. IBM is also reporting record profits and revenues. IBM also does business worldwide so they have some immunity from the weak dollar as a good portion of their income is in euro's etc. I doubt I could invest my meager lump sum in such a way it could generate more income monthly for my lifetime and my wifes then my current monthly check provides. Also worst case the feds bail it out and I would get something. If I invest poorly and lose it all I get nothing. Do not fall for the investment counselors bullshit. If you could really generate the revenue they predict to suck you in they would only work about 5 years themselves. Don't panic. -Exodus 2007- Comment 7/06/08: -Ex-IBMer- Yep, like Bethlehem Steel and other companies there is that danger that IBM can go the same route with the pension plan. If I was an ex-IBMer or retiree I would grab all your pension funds now before IBM plunders or tries to grab it. They have powerful forces and lobbyists who would love to get a "Cash Balance Pension Heist II" going if it would improve the stock price and send Sam and the rest of the thiefs fat 'n happy in their retirement. -anonymous- Comment 6/11/08: "Now that I'm ex I can pull it out and put it somehwere but I enjoy the comfort of knowing it's a guaraneteed rate of return" A guaranteed rate of return? Hardly a promise! IBM can change the provisions of the cash balance plan at ANY TIME. They can choose to make the rate of return less. Not only did they freeze the pensions for active employees NOTHING can stop them from cashing out and terminating the pension plans altogether. Pensions, no matter what type of plan they are, are only as strong as ERISA is enforced. IMHO if you are an ex employee with the cash balance pittance I would take that money out away from IBM just because they can't be trusted. You probably can get a better rate of return that is really a guarantee elsewhere. Remember: any change IBM makes to the pensions is not for the employee or retiree benefit anymore. It is to save IBM money. It is to further reward the greedy executives running the circus. -Anonymous- Comment 5/30/08: Any smart people out there care to comment on the viability of the current Cash Pension (or whatever it's called) plan? In my mind it's only a matter of time before it's disolved or somehow plundered away by IBM. Now that I'm ex I can pull it out and put it somehwere but I enjoy the comfort of knowing it's a guaraneteed rate of return.... Anywho... thoughts on how many more years it will be around? Clues, tips? Cheers! -Ex-IBMer- Comment 05/21/08: If you need a reason to join the Alliance, then this informative article (which mentions IBM) - West Virginia teachers vote on pensions versus 401(k)s – is a must read, especially the eighth paragraph: http://biz.yahoo.com/hmoney/080520/051908_west_virginia_pensions_moneymag.html?.v=3&printer=1 While I may not benefit from the Alliance as a retiree after nearly 40 years, you might. As a concerned ex-IBMer, I suggest all active employees consider joining the Alliance; and hope the Alliance continues to let me share my thoughts (for free or at a nominal retiree rate). -My Thoughts- Alliance Reply: We do have an Associate member option for $5.00 per month (Join link), that could work for you as a retiree. We appreciate your support and your posts that come from your long term experience as an IBM employee. Thanks for sharing with us. Comment 5/18/08: TO -Nine Edge First- If you were going to steal this comment from the other board, you could have at least used the one with the correct date; "1997" not 1977 as the copied item states. -F-O-S- Comment 5/14/08: I received a letter today beginning "Dear IBM Pension Recipient". It says "As you know, pension increases are not a part of IBM's pension plan formulas". (Well, I'm glad they cleared that up.) It later says that an adjustment was warranted for those who retired before January 1, 1977. That means eleven and a half years, minimum, since those guys had a change in their pensions. They get the bump in September. -Nine Edge First- Comment 5/12/08: To Anonymous - When you retire, you get to select a gift from an online catalog, similar to the 25th Anniversary. You may also be entitled to a small dinner celebration, again, similar to the 25th. You should check with your manager on both of the above. -Exodus 2006- Comment 5/10/08: I was one of the 7600 reclassified as non-exempt. I am still in the same job position now that I was in when the pension was not frozen which was before this year. Shouldn't my OT worked from last year and before be accrued to my pension since I was incorrectly classified as exempt since IBM reclassified me as non-exempt? OT is pensionable earnings correct? BTW, I was told by my management to only code 40 hours on my labor claim despite the OT I worked last year and before. So IBM probably wanted this to make their profts and also screw me out of OT pensionable benefits. BTW, I joined the Alliance. I'm tired of how I am treated by IBM. -Anonymous- Comment 5/10/08: What does an IBM employee that is eligible for retirement receive at retirement? Do they receive a retirement gift as they did at the 25 year Quarter Century Club. Do they have the opportunity to receive any else? -Anonymous- Comment 4/23/08: I can also relate to -Second Choicer- comments. IBM did not let all the definitions and criteria out to ALL employees whether they were "granfathered" or a "first choicer" or "second choicer" or not. They did not want ALL employees to be able to compare what choice or lack of choice (those folks forced to the cash balance plan and FHA have been called "non-choicers:"). All you could really determine is what choice group or not applied to you from what IBM supplied to you as your criteria. I was able to determine I was a non-choicer since I was not 40 years old in 1999. In order to have any choice you had to be at least 40 years old and at least 10 years of IBM employment service at that time. IBM also obsfucated retirement pension and health estimation tools like "ESTIMATR" from those employees where IBM determined "...since you are under this new (sic) cash balance pension and Future Health Account these tools no longer will apply to you so therefore you had no right to see them now..." in IBM's eyes. Once the pension fiasco happened now IBM loves to subjugate it's employees and retirees into separate groupings: call it their method of divide and conquer. -choice_or_not- Comment 4/22/08: http://www.allianceibm.org/ibm2cmp041708complaint-stamped/index2.htm If you were exempt and should have been classified as a non-exempt, hourly worker then your OT is pensionable earnings, provided a pension is being offered by IBM. So those folks IBM has recently reclassified from exempt to non-exempt have most likely lost pensionable earnings. This is a violation of FLSA and ERISA. No wonder IBM chose to do away with the pension plan and chose to freeze the plans for employees that had one. -Second Choicer- Comment 4/22/08: Old Plan Guy - your best bet would be to ask your question on the yahoo IBMPENSION board at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/ The membership over there know the plans better than anyone except for the Plan Administrator. They also have instructions for contacting the Plan Administrator if need be. -Second Choicer- Comment 4/21/08: -irrational- asked: "I've never before worked as a software developer where my employer "needed" my home phone number to be able to call at any time in case of an "emergency". Is this the norm in the software industry in the US these days??" I work in the Software Division and spend most of my time traveling to different customer sites. I spend anywhere from a few weeks to a half year at a customer site so I have exposure to how many companies handle the support of their applications and the answer is yes, many do expect to have the phone number of their employees supporting critical applications. In the past managers would have developers carry pagers; now they expect phones. -have laptop will travel- Comment 4/21/08: Left IBM in December for a full-time law enforcement job. Never been happier. Things are greener on the other side of the fence. Guaranteed pension, retirement, business is good, will always have criminals. Live your dreams and don't ever let anyone take them from you. Best wishes. -Former I "BM" er - Comment 4/21/08: Thank you, Second Choicer. You add some helpful clarity on the term, but confusion, or is it memory, persists, which should be easily cleared up if HR existed to help and inform the assets. I was 44 at the time when the choices were made, with less than either 15 or 20 years, yet I was given the choice. (First choicer?) However, I am on the FHA medical plan. (mistake?) Not that we can change anything here, but nearing 54 it is a topic that I would like to know more about. So, again, thank you for the help. -Old Plan Guy- Comment 4/19/08: In 1999, the eligibility for "Second Choicers" was 40 years old and 10 years of service. -Anonymous- Comment 4/17/08: When IBM first announced the pension and retirement medical cuts in 1999, there was one group (dubbed First Choicers) that got the choice of taking the old pension plan or the new cash balance pension plan and a second group (non-choicers or converteds) that were forced into the new cash balance plan and the new FHA retirement medical plan. This was a division based on years of service and age. I can't remember the division criteria for sure, but I think you had to have 20 years of service and be 45 or older to qualify for choice of plans. I know I personally just missed.There was such a public firestorm protesting the forced conversions, including Senate hearings. IBM was publicly embarrassed and chastized. At the hearing, because of the furor, then IBM VP of HR Tom Bouchard testified at the Senate hearings, announcing that IBM would extend the choice criteria downward, allowing more employees choice of the pension plans. People in this group were called "Second Choicers". Again, my menory is not very good, but I think they dropped the eligibility for choice down to 40 years old and 15 years of service. But, the second choicers did not get the old retirement medical - they could choose the old pension plan, but they were still forced into the new retirement medical (FHA) plan.I may be a bit wrong with the age/years of service criteria, if so I' certain someone will correct me. Hope this helps -Second Choicer- Comment 4/16/08: Can someone please tell me the relevance of the term "second choicer"? As I try to understand which pensioner group I am in I am confused, as it seems that it is not simply: old plan / new plan. As I read from the various fora it seems that there are subgroups; on the other hand I might possibly be misunderstanding street lingo. Could someone please give a list of all the grouping possibilities that one might be in. Amazing that such important information should be so difficult to come by - or that I could be so stupid. TIA (not meant to be transient ischemic attack) -Old Plan Guy- Comment 3/31/08: re: Leveling off pension policy. In this document: About Your Benefits - IBM Personal Pension Plan - Prior Plan - September 1, 2007 It clearly states: To understand better how leveling works, let’s assume that Jane retires at age 60 and elects age 65 as her leveling age, that her IBM retirement income is $1,500 monthly and her estimated Social Security benefit at age 65 is $980 a month. By electing the level income option, Jane’s IBM pension benefit is temporarily increased from $1,500 monthly to $2,068 for the period from her retirement at age 60 until she attains age 65. Thereafter, Jane’s IBM pension benefit is permanently reduced to $1,088 for the rest of her lifetime. However, when this $1,088 is added to her estimated Social Security payment at age 65 of $980, the total is still $2,068 per month, the amount she was receiving under the leveling feature before her Social Security payments began. -doc- Comment 3/31/08: Richard, You are naive if you think that your job may not be put into jeopardy for posting disparaging comments about your current employer in a public forum. -Huh- Alliance Reply: There are circumstances that make your statement true in a limited way. For example: If you use your real name, and you disparage the company products, services, or management ability; then you are susceptible to immediate termination. This comes under "At Will Employment". There have even been cases of Union Organizers being fired for 'misconduct" or "disparaging remarks" in a public forum, done from the privacy of the individual's home. In the past, cases such as this became "Unfair Labor Practice" cases. Sometimes the union ended up losing such a case in the Circuit Court of Appeals , after winning two earlier decisions by an NLRB Admin Law judge and the NLRB itself. Labor laws have been turned upside down by several NLRB members over the last 3 decades, who were appointed to the Board by the sitting President (POTUS). The point is: because the Internet is a relatively "new" public used technology; each case must be viewed separately and decided by the NLRB and possibly all the way up to the Supreme Court. This issue is NOT binary. Comment 3/29/08: Re: Its amazing how many people refuse to sign their names... Cowardly. ------- Oh foo... lighten up. It's certainly understandable why many don't want their name used. Hmmm...maybe you're a mgt troll looking for real names.... Anyway, my posts have been under 'anonymous' even though my real name is Neal Watkins and I have been using that real name on my posts for a long time now. Maybe they have a script that has a table of names and no time to update it. Anyway - mgt troll or not. My real name is Neal Watkins and I'm in Austin. -Neal Watkins- Alliance Reply: Our policy has always been to use "Anonymous" regardless of whether we get names and email addresses sent to us with comments. If the person sending the comments expressly writes that we can use their name; as you have, then we use it. We MUST get your permission. Without it, we sign "Anonymous" to the comments, or whatever pseudonym you sign it as. Everyone should read our web privacy policy here: Privacy Policy Comment 3/25/08: Its amazing how many people refuse to sign their names... Cowardly. Also look at the global companies that were with strong unions, i.e. Airlines, Auto. Ask the Chrysler employees what they think. IBM has always ben ahead of all major Tech companys. Obviously you all don't know what Microsoft, Cisco or Sun provide. Wake up! I thought IBM only hired intelligent adults? -Richard Harrison- Comment 3/17/08: To -no_ky- Why the personal attack on the poor person. Why would you insult someone by stating you must have been a manager. That has no place on this site. An alliance is a brotherhood. Personal attacks are certainly not in keeping with that spirit. I see this all over this website where folks attack others on a personal level and I do not understand why in most cases. This person was not being snide, or condescending or arrogant. This person was asking a question about a screw job IBM pulled on him back when we did not know we could not trust them. I am sure they already feel pretty bad . I think the alliance should stop posting anything that has a personal attack in it. It is counter productive to forming a united front.. -exodus 2007- Alliance reply: Point taken. We are constantly balancing the comments that get posted here. Our purpose here is to air the opinions and questions from IBMers past and present. We posted this comment because we saw a response that was vaild in some ways. We walk a tightrope here at Alliance@IBM. Our goal is to open this board to discussion of the meaning of a union contract and the potential of the IBM employees to acheive a voice at the bargaining table. No_ky's comments are far more constructive than some of the comments we have seen and NOT posted. FYI.. there is one person that visits this board (all sections) that goes by 3 different aliases. We have stopped posting his/her comments because we determined that this person is probably an ex-manager or at the very least, staunchly anti-union. If people, like that, want to constantly berate other employees and push against our organizing campaign, then we don't see any reason to post their comments. Besides, No_ky offered an apology for the fact that the person he addressed "ended up in this situation". Comment 3/14/08: TO:..Has anybody looked into the leveling off policy. I retired in 1993 >>> It is now obvious that you had no idea what you were signing into and did not pay the $1.95 to get legal advice about it. YOU must have been and ex-IBM manager. You signed a contract that said independent of SSA payments, you agreed to get a little bit extra immediately to have a lot taken away later. You would have been bettter to LEVEL to 64 or 65 and start taking SSA benefits at 62 or 63. BEST be would have been NO LEVELING and more expense management. A HELOC would have been a much better choice or a general LOAN if a heloc was not an option. You danced to the music and now must pay the piper. I am truly sorry you ended up in this situation, but you can't play around with finances or your future.. -no_ky- Comment 3/13/08: Regarding leveling. IBM reduces your pension forever. Never was it only until its paid back. Sorry you were not properly informed of this back then. IBM's take is they gambled you would live long enough for them to get the money back. The good news is they won. You are still alive. Every day above ground is a good one.. -Exodus 2007- Comment 3/12/08: Has anybody looked into the leveling off policy. I retired in 1993 and leveled off to 62. I paid back the amount by the time I was 68 years and 10 months. IBM still denies me the $450 they took from my pension. I have written twice and get a bunch of double talk. It's policy and can never change. Thank You. -Anonymous- Comment 3/12/08: I have an IBM friend who was reclassified from exempt to non exempt and got full 15% paycut at the same time. She said she's happy because she's now making about $1,500 more a month due to OT. I guess that's good news for some people and not for other people. -A friend- Comment 3/12/08: Folks in the PPA or cash pension plan not only have a frozen plan to contend with now they will further lose any transition credits ( from 1% to 4%) come 2009 that they are getting now. Not only is your pension frozen it will be chilled some more in the future. -Anonymous- Comment 3/11/08: The people who really got screwed by IBM are the former blue collar workers who retired under the old plan. Many of them (IMHO) were not financially sophisticated. They assumed (1) IBM would continue to completely cover the cost of health insurance, and (2) would provide periodic cost of living increases to their pension. Then IBM capped the amount they would contribute to retiree health insurance (suddenly forcing these retirees to pay a portion of their health insurance costs) and froze pension amounts. -Second Generation- Alliance reply: There are those of us in this office that resemble that example very well. Unfortunately, we were also warning IBM workers (as far back as before Alliance@IBM was formed) that because they were "AT WILL EMPLOYEES" ; this kind of activity by company management was inevitable without the protection of a contract. And very few would listen, then. They were too caught up in their own personal job/life to believe that IBM would betray them that seriously. This is one big reason why Alliance@IBM was formed in 1999. To gather together the obvious evidence of a trend by the company to shed jobs, cut pay, change and/or eliminate pensions and pull the medical coverage 'rug' right out from beneath the feet of their once treasured and respected employees and retirees. And here we are; several years later doing battle with IBM on behalf of employees who agree that there must be a change in IBM that is positive for IBM employees...a union contract. Comment 3/08/08: Hey life is goot: aren't you missing your golf tee time by posting here just trying to let everyone know you got it so good? Are you an Alliance member? You can afford $5 or $10 a month it sure seems. The Alliance is fighting to preserve retirement benefits too, since all IBMers should be retirees some day. -Anonymous- Comment 3/08/08: To those that got the 15% base pay cut shaft: If you can't get the OT to "make up" for your lost base pay rate and you were under the PPA and cash balance pension plan you lose some transition credit money accredited for your frozen pension until the credit goes away in 9/2009. It remains to be seen if IBM will compensate those with the pension credits who get the reclassification transition payment come June. Sure it might only amount to a few dollars but it goes back into IBM's pocketbook and not yours. I'm sure McDonald and Moffatt explained this to you during there "we are all not happy" USA IBM big sites tour touting the reclassification and "pay remix" crap as the only right thing IBM can do. -cash_pittance_plan- Comment 3/04/08: Former IBMer here! I left last July after much disgust with LEAN-related staff massacres. My IBM career spanned nearly 9 years so I have a few PBCs under my belt. I was a remote employee. With very few exceptions, I honestly believe that my manager didn't have too much of a clue as to what exactly I did, what I worked on, etc. other than the fact that my accounts were all happy with me and that we would have a brief monthly chat during our 1 on 1. Whenever the time came to write up my PBC rating of myself, I think that I having a gift of worthsmithing was invaluable. I was always able to justify at least a 1, mostly 2s, and finally a 2+ rating, once those came into existence. I truly believe that a key is not only what you say but how you say it that counts. It's difficult for a manager to down a rating when you indicate that what you've done has either saved some cost and/or increased customer sat. I know this is such a stinkin' chore to do at the end of each year, but it helps that whenever a project turns out right, keep some notes in your own little PBC file so that you can "spin" it during PBC rating time at the end of the year. For those of you still employed by Big Blew, I feel for you. I know the company is unstable and senior management have all lost their minds, but if you're willing to stick with it, please join the Alliance. If I hadn't left when I did I would have joined! Unfortunately, I didn't know there WAS an Alliance until after I left. Good luck to all. -Mistressofthei5- Comment 3/04/08: -72 a week- And, good for you too. I did the long days and weekends for weeks at a time when I was young. Then I noticed that I was letting my life pass me by. After that, I did 40 hours per week unless their was an emergency. I got to see my kids grow up, and still made good money. I'm retired now, and IBM doesn't give a crap about me. But, my family does, and that is what counts. - Wouldn't change a thing if I could do it all again -Anonymous- Comment 2/29/08: You already have. so just to confirm you can ignore earlier comments to life is good(sp). he got his retirement. hope he will stop gloating over it when he finds a way to spend his time. -ignore earlier comments- Comment 2/28/08: Prior Yr PBC = 2+ This Yr PBC = 2+ This Yr Bonus = 3% Prior Yr Bonus = 5.75% Message = New Manager, Probably was not happy when I used to refuse to work after typical 40% OT. And this year we were supposed to have a bigger basket for distribution. Wondering why I did not get the same % like last year if not more, for same rating and approx same % OT -Anon- Comment 2/27/08: Retirement Comparison Modeler discontinued - March 31, 2008 The Retirement Comparison Modeler — the tool currently used to model retirement benefits and compare results of the PCF and PPA plans and the new 401(k) Plus Plan — will be available until March 31, 2008. It will be discontinued after that date. -SameOldSong- Comment 2/24/08: gadfly, you had me fooled for a second.. LOL. You know, with the improvements in modern medicine, you may have a shot at making it over 100. I think that is what IBM was worried about when they took the old pension plan away. Hang in there and we'll see ya at the retirement home in 2080! -old fart- Comment 2/23/08: Just a question....someone explain to me how the case of recent, involving a gentlemen who sued over his 401k, is different from what we experienced over the pension plan. oh and BTW, I missed my 10 year credit by one day (actually mere seconds, due to my hire date) -Mouse- Comment 2/21/08: EXODUS: I'm under the old plan and get a check from IBM on the 1st and a check from SSI in the middle of the month. My spouse also gets an SSI check. Just plain old social security that we paid for since 1962. Now is the time to spend it. I did my tour of duty so now it is time to have fun.! -life is goot- Comment 2/20/08: Hey, I love the new 401-k plus program. Since IBM doesn't contribute to a pension plan any longer, my 401-k receives the additional dollars according to the plan details. The really cool thing is that with a traditional pension plan, the money remains in the account. With the new 401-k plus plan, the money is deposited into my 401-k according to my investment selection. It then promptly disappears! Isn't that cool? Since the value of the market has been declining, the value of my retirement has disappeared right along with it. I am so excited about the future! According to my modest calculations, at a 20% saving rate, I should be financially ready to retire by my 172nd birthday.....Thanks IBM! -gadfly- Comment 2/19/08: Ref: life is goot. He or she refrences getting SSI. Assuming they did retire from IBM who pays into ssa then the person would not receive ssi which is for someone disabled who has not payed in ten years worth of working.So they are either lying or just yanking peoples chain. If they are collecting Social Security Disability then life probably is goot. No thanks to IBM. Nothing to do with Career choices etc. The point is do not be jealous of what someone else may have gotten Go get yours. Get it in writing. Obviously IBM is not going to give anything BACK. We have to TAKE it back by unionizing. A company posting revenue and profits like IBM is to the SEC is ripe for the picking with UNION negotiators. I would think free medical , standardized pay. Defined on call. Bonus for higher skills etc are all on the table and many more. But nothing can happen till you stop bickering amongst yourselves and decide to live better work union!. -Exodus 2007- Comment 2/19/08: been there : I got out in 2006 with 40+ years . Anyone who retired under the old plan should be in OK shape if they did their homework. The guys in the middle are the ones most hit but they were in the 20-25 years of service range and could still work and load up their 401. The new people have the opportunity to save as much as they want to and they can take it with them as they move from job to job. If I had that option I'd have a lot more then I do now but I got enough. Spring is coming. -life is goot- Comment 2/18/08: TO>>-life is goot- >>>If you got all you were supposed to, then you have been retired since around 1985 or earlier. That would explain why "alzhiemers" has set in. The current group of retirees GOT SCREWED with no chance to adjust. Pre-1985, most retirees got 56-64% of high 5 salaries as retirement pay and did not have to spend 600-1000 of that to cover benefits, they were FREE. My guess is you never retired from IBM and just like to try and be an azz or you were a manager/executive and don't have to pretend.. -Been There - Got Screwed- Comment 2/17/08: life is goot: cut rubbing your comfortable situation in folks faces who are going to retire who will be or are not as fortunate. I assume you can't afford about $0.33 cents a day to join the Alliance since that might cut into your retirement prosperity. -don't_gloat_goot- Comment 2/17/08: frank: I earned everything that I got. IBM gave me the opportunity just like everyone else in the company. You made of it what you could and I took advantage of it. I never got screwed and enjoyed my career. Everyone that I meet with at various lunches enjoyed their careers and ar now having fun in retirement. The people still in the business have the same opportunities as I had . You sink or swim but you need to make that decision. Sorry you blew your chance. -life is goot- Comment 2/15/08: Regarding Life is Goot, he probably got his full pension and maybe his full retirement benefits to boot. So life may indeed be good for him. It doesn't matter to him how badly IBM screws you and me or how much they take away from us - he's already got his, so he doesn't care. -Frank- Comment 2/13/08: OK I must have missed the message. I just got a note the other day from a person in Dubi who's father left them a million dollar check that was made out from a USA bank. They asked me to deposit the check and implied that I would be rewarded with 10% of the value. All I needed to do was cash the check in my bank and send them 90% of the dollars. Now they wouldn't cheat me , would they. Then again I could have taken that GM job but IBM won out. -life is goot- Comment 2/13/08: Never saw "free Health care forever" in any handbook back in the 60's. As for today I'm paying a little over $600 a month for the 2 of us and that is reasonable for what we get. My pension is great and coupled with SSI I still manage to have sufficent enough money at the end of the month for savings and stock investments. -life is goot- Alliance reply: The point is that the "About Your Company" booklets never said it wasn't "free Health care forever" The implication was that it was at least 'protected' and sure to be there when you retired. Anyone that has worked for a unionized company knows that benefits; such as medical, are always negotiated within a contract. IBM implied to employees of that era, that they wouldn't have to fear losing their "free medical"; especially retirement pensions. That implication kept employees from seeking union protection. That's exactly what happened. When some of us joined IBM in the 1970's, it was a very *strong* implication, albeit not gauranteed as you have pointed out. It's all in the way IBM sold the whole package to its potential employees. They were successful at keeping unions out. However, when they saw that their style of company enprisement of employees was no longer desireable, they began firing people and cutting everything. If you had said to any employee, back in the early 1960's and 1970's "You know, your benefits are not guaranteed", they would have laughed you out of your county. Most especially, the IBMer's that already had 25 years in the company laughing the hardest. That's how well IBM did at marketing themselves to new recruits. Simple equation: IBM changed the rules while they were playing, because there was no union contract. Had there been one, the rules would have to have been re-negotiated. Comment 2/13/08: Life is goot: You are showing your lack of knowledge. It was in the employee handbook about the health benefits. What about your benefits, are they costing you over $1000/month or are you on medicaid as a pauper? -living_large- Comment 2/11/08: Anonymous: the answers are , yes , no , serious , no lotto. Anyone on the old plan should be in fair shape if they planned for the future. The folks in the middle are squeezed so they need to put a retirement plan together and sacrifice to save the money. The new employee's have a clean slate and are in a better position to determine their retirement future. So my pension and stocks and 401 has done well for my family. IBM only promised me a job for life if I performed well. I did and they did. As for benefits well there never was anything in writting so I took the necessary steps to prepare for my future. It is not rocket science and if you live under your earnings you will have a good package that you made happen. You are right healt is the big deal and I have gone through the rough times with everyone in the family. So enjoy your life and have fun (see bucket list) and don't look behind. Have fun -life is goot- Comment 2/11/08: I was an employee of IGS for a short period of time in the '90s. I left money in my 401k prior to leaving. I would llike to know who is currently the administrator of that money. -HenryK- Alliance reply: When you left IBM, you should have also had access information to your 401k account. At one time, IBM had the Hewitt Management Company LLC maintaining the 401k accounts. Prior to that IBM managed it. There was an 800 phone number that you called or a URL that you could access to review your balance, etc. IBM has recently moved that responsibility to Fidelity Netbenefits Phone:1-800-796-9876 or URL: http://www.netbenefits.com You should be able to register for account access. They will probably ask for information such as SS#, etc. Please let us know if you run into any problems with this. There should be plenty of people on this comments section that can help you. Comment 2/11/08: To: -LifeIsGoot- Are you an IBM retiree? Are you a retired executive? Are you totally serious or being a bit sarcastic here? Sounds like you might have won the lottery! You are in the minority of folks who can retire comfortably now. IBMers now have a frozen defined benefit plan pension, others have a frozen cash balance pension were the balance is just a pittance, and other newer IBMers have NO pension at all. What is next in IBM diminishing retirement benefits is a real question. Other compaines are just as bad or even worse than IBM in reitree benefits now. Don't get me wrong: I do wish you well. Just stay healthy. You'll need to if you only have Medicare paying your retiree health benefits now if you are to continue prosperity in retirement. -Anonymous- Comment 1/30/08: I just read that the avg. med. income for retiries 65 and older is $1700 a month. So you think you got it bad. Glad to have a pension -life is goot- Comment 1/29/08: Anon , yes it is relative contribution against your peers in the same band. And if you do not have enough peers then it expands to your project manager group. I agree and when the ranking is done it is 1st done at a band level and merged into your 2nd lines group. That gives you total rank by band up to the 3rd level. Now besides that each 1st level ranks their department. When time come to RA folks the 1st line looks at who he can live without in the department. They usually don't care about levels unless they need to reduce dollars (salary) in the department. So when you look at the department ranking you find high band guys both on the top and the bottom of the pile. Usually the final mark on the PBC is based on the overall ranking and the peer discussion comes in during the interview as a reason why you were a 1,2+,2 or a 3. -John- Comment 1/28/08: John - I know it says relative contribution ... but you have to understand who your "peers" are. The PBC website says "Your manager will evaluate how much you contributed to IBM's overall success for the year relative to your peers in the same band and similar job roles."... that's a lot different than just saying who contributes the most in your department from top to bottom determines PBC rating. -Anonymous- Comment 1/27/08: I retired in 2007 after a long career and now am making a great pension. Then I took SSI along with my wife and a bunch of more money came in. So now I see because I worked some last year I will be getting some of these economy $'s . So it just keeps getting better. Not only do I continue to get paid for not doing anything but I still have the ability to save money every month. Boy life is great . I guess the only downside is in the next 10 years I'll need to take money out of my 401. I guess I could use this to upgrade my vacation flights from business to 1st class. Life is goot , I hope you get yours. -LifeIsGoot- Comment 1/26/08: The value of rolling into an IRA is the ability to diversify investments beyond what a corporate plan offers. The investment choices in a 401K generally are designed for long term growth. If you, like me, are nearing retirement you need to be more strategic and protective of your retirement savings. There are myriad investments that offer growth AND protection. None of which IBMs retirement savings plan offers. -SandsPoint- Comment 1/25/08: "I was wondering if you decided to leave IBM and give no notice can IBM refuse to pay out your full vested pension amount" IBM can not refuse to pay your full "vested rights". They belong to you and have nothing to do when you give, of if you give, notice. The only consideration is how long it takes to process the departure and for you to get the money, retroactive of course. -Vested Rights- Comment 1/25/08: To "Its all but over" - found this on the Moneysmart Q & A page. Looks like pension calc is based on pre-2008 earnings: Q2. If I retire as a PCF plan participant, how will my eligible pay be determined? How will the *five year average* work after 2008? A2. You will continue to earn pension benefits, based on pay and service according to current formulas, through December 31, 2007. Beginning in 2008, your pension amount will be based the greater of the following: average of the highest five consecutive calendar years between January 1, 1995 and December 31, 2007 or average of the last 60 months ending December 31, 2007. Age and service after 2007 continue to count toward early retirement eligibility subsidies. This means that your earned benefit still increases at early retirement milestones – by roughly 25% at the age you first become eligible for retirement. -IBM Slave- Comment 1/24/08: Re: Comment 1/23/08: I was wondering if you decided to leave IBM and give no notice can IBM refuse to pay out your full vested pension amount ???? -going_going_gone- I've been gone for awhile now, so this could have changed, but when I was leaving there was a document explaining when and how you should notify IBM that you are planning to leave. It explicitly said that you are not required to give prior notice, but went on to explain why it might be to your advantage to do so (i.e., to make it easier to process your paperwork). -alreadyGone- Comment 1/24/08: Message = Was wondering if anyone would know now that many of us have received a 15% basepay cut will this cause my pension now to be less if I continue to work for IBM. I know contributions are frozen, but is how they figure the annuity still based off the last five years of pay or does that no longer play since the freeze? -Its all but over- Comment 1/23/08: I was wondering if you decided to leave IBM and give no notice can IBM refuse to pay out your full vested pension amount ???? -going_going_gone- Comment 1/23/08: I've done a lot of reading on the topic of 401K vs. IRA, and I've consulted with financial advisers. Each person should do their own research, but these are some things that I have found. Rollover of 401K to an IRA does not require age 59 1/2. You can do it any time that the plan permits. That is explained at the IRS web pages. The penalty for early distributions does not apply to funds rolled over to an IRA. In my case, I retired at 56, and did the rollover at 58. You just need to be careful to make sure the money transfers directly to the IRA. Otherwise, you may be subject to a 10% penalty. There is a subtle difference in ownership of an IRA vs. a 401K. You own an IRA. The 401K is held in trust for you, but is owned by the 401K plan. This may provide additional protection to you from someone taking your 401K funds. The trade off is that some 401K plans can restrict your choices, as was done in the Enron case. One advantage of rolling over the 401K is that when combined with other IRA funds, the amount may make you eligible for additional services. For example, Vanguard offers free financial revues and other financial services, if the total value of your accounts is large enough. They also offer a greater choice of investments. There are also more friendly rules regarding how an heir may make withdrawals from an IRA vs. a 401K. Although, those rules were changing, but still could be governed by the 401K plan administrator. Based on income and age, IRA funds can be rolled over to a Roth IRA. This will require paying taxes when the rollover is done, but the resulting funds can then grow tax free for the rest of your life. If left in the 401K or traditional IRA, there are forced withdrawals at age 70 1/2 that don't apply to a Roth IRA. An advantage of a 401K is that the 401K allows SEP withdrawals at an age of 55 without penalty, if it is from the employer where you retired at age 55. So, if you want early access, then the 401K is a better place to hold your investments. -Anonymous- Comment 1/22/08: If you are 59 1/2, why not roll out of the pension into an IRA? -Anonymous- Alliance reply: What would be the advantage? Aren't IRAs still investment funds? Don't they increase or decrease with the market, just like a 401k? Don't you pay taxes on the withdrawls you make? Explain the difference for some of us 59 1/2 year olds. Comment 1/22/08: Can the 15% reduction in Salary reduce your Pension if you are an employee with 30+ years and the Pension is already frozen?-Anonymous- Comment 1/16/08: To RA'd Bear, re your question of 1/5: "The interest is equal to the return on one-year Treasury Constant Maturity (TCM) yield plus 1% and is based on a three months’ average of the TCM during the preceding August, September and October. For 2008, the interest crediting rate is 5.2%." -Marbles- Comment 1/13/08: QUESTION : When IBM sold the PC division to Lenovo did the employees get their FHA dollars or did they lose them? Thanks -Poisoned in Endicott- Alliance reply: The FHA dollars are vapor, unless you retire as an IBMer and are able to actually collect them. Our guess here is, that when the company sold to Lonovo, that the FHA dollars evaporated. They are/were 'funny money' anyway...blue dollars, not green, from what we have seen. Read more of this comments section and the archives section to find out more. Comment 1/12/08: With regard to the recent post about IBM exec's having SERP, the poster couldn't be more correct. What I find interesting above and beyond the fact that IBM exec's are given SERP, is that many senior exec's have employment contracts with IBM as well! How ironic that the exec's understand and desire the protections written into an employment contract, but we employee's don't! What does that say to you? One thing it tells me is that the very people who made the decision to freeze our pensions, just like many of us, do not trust the IBM corporation either!! Who knows what a clause written in those indivdual contracts might guarantee an exec. One thing is for certain though, the exec's make damn sure they can sue IBM in a court of law, should IBM try to reneg on anything written into their employment contract. -Anonymous- Alliance reply: You are correct. A contract is negotiated between the company and the executives they hire. Not all executives get contracts, but those that do, have an iron-clad agreement with the company. The employees deserve the same. That's what Alliance@IBM has advocated and continues to advocate. If you want a contract, you have to organize and work to get one. It will be worth it once you have it. Comment 1/11/08: Palmisano on deciding to freeze employee pensions: "..personally it was a very hard decision for me.." Huh? You got your SERP Sammy boy. Sure, your SERP is also frozen with your regular IBM pension now but I really feel for you that you have to live on a "fixed income" in retirement at about $7000 a day. I guess you'll have to find creative ways to live off just that amount :) Didn't IBM start up the SERP when Gerstner took the helm? He was shocked IBM didn't have a "supplemental executive retention program" since IBM executives were leaving in droves (?) and needed incentive to stay. Not too many executives left and almost all the top ones are still working as IBM executives. We all know it was set up as a "Senior Executive Retirement Plan". That's what the SERP really is! The executives ensured they got their real pension before the mess they created started. -Anonymous- Comment 1/9/08: I see lots of messages about how the frozen pension would affect older employees. I retired in 2006 at 56, but since I never received a pay raise after hitting age 50, my pension was effectively frozen. It wasn't because of performance, as I was was always chosen to lead new projects. or take over projects that were having trouble. I was told that I had already had my pay raises, and the younger people would be getting what money was available. I was also told that I didn't get stock options because my "future time horizon" would not permit full vesting. That came from my second line manager. The options all proved to be pretty worthless anyway. I think for many older employees, the situation is similar. At least the ones that I knew told the same stories. Frozen pensions have been the norm for a long time. Remember IBM does not practice age discrimination. There is no need to practice when they are so good at it. -Anonymous- Comment 1/9/08: Pension article -No Way- Comment 1/9/08: Read this: IBM 401(k) article -A friend- Comment 1/8/08: If the stock market doesn't recover soon or make it back to DOW 14000+ and beyond our 401k+ will be no way near a replacement for a frozen pension plan. It is clear that for older employees who just had their pension frozen, time is not on your side for recouping funds lost with a frozen pension in a 401k+ plan. -Anon- Comment 1/6/08: To Anonymous: FHA is a NOTIONAL account. No real money is put aside by IBM. You have no real money in an account. Don't you understand this??? The FHA is like poker chips. It is not transferable at all. It is all funny $, if and until IBM allows you to use the notional funds to buy health benefits from them. Join the Alliance and educate yourself now! IBM has already renaged on their promise of employee pensions. Do you think they will honor a Future Health Account now? Get a real FHA. Work towards a contract and secure retirement medical protection! -Future_Hell_Account- Comment 1/6/08: I have have been notified that I have an FHA (Future Health Account) from IBM / Lenovo (laid off 11/1/07). Was wondering if anyone transfered successfully transfered FHA funds into another bank or brokerage account? -Anonymous- Comment 1/5/08: What is the interest rate that IBM is posting to the cash balance retirement plan? I left it in for the last half ot 07 because it was higher than the CD rate I could get at my credit union. -RA'd bear- Comment 1/4/08: On the frozen pensions, we still get interest on it...4 or 5% for this year I think. Basically the pension account turned into a savings account that won't allow additional principle to be added. -Anonymous- Comment 1/3/08: I thought with a frozen pension we still get some miniscule interest credited to the frozen balance. Is this correct? Or is the frozen pension balance as of 1/1/2008 the hard, final account balance? -Anonymous- Comment 1/2/08: To understand the prior plan in general and the conversion factors in particular, search for ushr113.ppdf on w3. I have saved ushr113 for the past few years, and comparing the conversion factor tables, I do not think that the conversion factors have changed. Using this document you can make a simple spreadsheet and forget the calculators. That can also help you demystify the plan. -Anon- Comment 1/2/08: Dear IBMer: Just want to say Happy New Year 2008! You resources are the best in the business. You make us richer by the day. We thank you! By the way, enjoy your frozen pension! When you do leave IBM you can watch it thaw, melt , and evaporate right before your eyes. To all us IBM executives it is truly a marvelous, wonderful sight! Keep up all your good work for the customer in 2008 and beyond. We know we can bank on you! Best, Sam P. and the rest of the IBM executive management team -freeze out 2008- Comment 12/31/07: To -new con factor- : I HEAR YOU!!!!! You are not mistaken! Those that don't even hit 30 years of IBM employment service are getting screwed as well. I am an IBMer in the cash pittance plan (no choicer). I ran calculations, too, from NetBenefits earlier (back in May 2007 before any possible pay raise took place) and the simple calculation I made is if I quit IBM on 01/01/2008 and decide to collect a SINGLE LIFE MONTHLY ANNUITY starting on 01/01/2008 the payout came to $602 monthly. Now today with the same parameters (with even a small insulting raise received in June 2007) the SINGLE LIFE MONTHLY ANNUITY payout is down to about $529 a month (@#$%) The only thing that changed is I got a small raise and they are going to freeze the PPA so why is the annuity LESS??? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON???? So it is clear IBM has fudged the annuity conversion factor for the PPA for the frozen pension so they can save even more money on a frozen pension! Of course IBM doesn't even make this clear at all to anyone with the frozen pension announcements. They are pulling the thick wool over your eyes again folks! Just like in 1999 with the cash balance plan "announcements". Can the Alliance explain how the annuity can go down like this? -Anonymous- Alliance reply: The answer is simple: employees do not have representation, employees do not have a contract, employees do not have any right to oversight of the pension plan. Employees need to raise their voices over this! The more you keep quiet, the more you will lose. Comment 12/31/07: I would advise EVERYONE under the IBM Personal Pension Plan reading this to print out a NetBenefits Pension Summary statement TODAY to get a hardcopy of your lump sum amount as of today, 12/31/2007. Protect yourself: get evidence of your PPA lump sum just in case IBM tries something starting in 2008. This lump sum amount should not go down on or after 01/01/2008. If a NetBenefits Your Pension Summary run after 01/01/2008 reports it down or less I would call Fidelity ASAP for an explanation. For your further information: IBM has changed the "annuity conversion factor" with the frozen PPA starting on 01/01/2008. This means if you take a monthly annuity it will be less than calculated even with the same PPA lump sum amount if you ran an estimate back in October 2007 -read_this!- Comment 12/30/07: To the poster that said "Comment 12/28/07: America has had recessions and inflationary periods and economic down periods where business bottom line profits suffered but the companies that offered pensions didn't change pension plans, freeze pension plans, or terminate/abandon too many of the employee pensions. Why now are we seeing that pensions are no longer being offered? Perhaps companies know American workers are largely weak and naive and cannot even be compared to sheep (since sheep do know how to flock together to protect themselves the best they can). So if the average American worker doesn't flock together to protect what benefits, like a pension, that are offered by an employer these benefits will surely vanish."... I suggest you borrow from the library or buy a copy of Paul Krugman's latest book, "The Conscience of a Liberal"...even if you don't consider yourself to be a liberal. He explains in very clear terms how the screwing of the American middle class by the filthy rich has been in the works for decades. It's a real eye opener for people that haven't been paying attention, which is 99% of the population. -Anonymous- Comment 12/28/07: Why did any corporation decide to offer employees a pension in the first place? The concept was to reward long-time employment and loyalty, but the workforce dynamic has changed since the time of our parents generation. Modern corporations don't want long term employees, and today's younger generation of workers are naively willing to assume the risk of managing their pension funds themselves. They also want portability, meaning they want to take their pension money with them when they accommodate their latest employers wishes by leaving. However the idea of expecting everyone to be an investment expert is crazy. -Anonymous- Alliance Reply: To answer your first question: just for the record, many companies that offered a pension to their employees, during the 1950's-1970's; were trying to head off any union organizing. IBM, supposedly modeled their employee benefits and amenities after many of the major unionized workforces in the industrialized USA, for that very reason. There was a shoe company (Endicott-Johnson) in upstate NY that also offered a generous benefits package previous to IBM's model during the 1930's and 1940's. That company fought unionization as well. Ironically, even with that model, IBM Europe still had to accept trade unions and works councils within their shops in France, Germany, Italy and even Japan, that still exist today. Comment 12/28/07: America has had recessions and inflationary periods and economic down periods where business bottom line profits suffered but the companies that offered pensions didn't change pension plans, freeze pension plans, or terminate/abandon too many of the employee pensions. Why now are we seeing that pensions are no longer being offered? Perhaps companies know American workers are largely weak and naive and cannot even be compared to sheep (since sheep do know how to flock together to protect themselves the best they can). So if the average American worker doesn't flock together to protect what benefits, like a pension, that are offered by an employer these benefits will surely vanish. Does anyone ever think hard about this: Why did any company or corporation decide to offer any regular employee a pension in the first place? Does anyone wish to answer this now? The average American worker will have no pensions and probably no retirement security unless they know the real value of what a pension provides. You can bet all CEOs and corporate executives will continue to have a pension so they can retire! Yes, they are very different than the average American worker: they demand a sure thing. They still get a sure thing. They demand retirement and retirement security without living with the fear of having their retirement income be at the mercy and whims of the bets placed in the ca$ino stock market . Why can't the average American worker WAKE UP and demand and get the same treatment??? -Anonymous- Comment 12/27/07: to no-ky, here is my understanding of the 1999 calculations. First, ERISA DOESN'T protect any 'pension' payments which might be paid prior to age 65 (or so.) SO, when IBM switched to the new cash balance plan in 1999, they calculated a starting balance, for each employee, BASED ON a few factors: 1. The net present value of whatever the employee was vested in as of 1999 (low dollars), projected out to some date when the employee would reach age 65 - 2009 (2019, or later in many cases), 2. *then* calculated the net present value of the calculation back to 1999. This results in a very low balance. All of this was quite legal, per ERISA. Any other interpretations are VERY welcome. -how the 1999 change worked- Comment 12/27/07: -Anon- Wrote: Well "It's not obvious", all we have is past history to go on. That shows the statements to be possible. How can you say they are not? -Anon- Another person who talks and talks without saying anything. You use the word "possible". Where's your proof, or is that too much to ask? Just the usual suspects making statements they can't prove. If you can show one example where a greedy IBM executive got their hands on the Pension funds I will then agree with you. Until then, all you have are the usual mindless ramblings found on these blogs. Where'z da proof? -It's not obvious- Comment 12/27/07: This post is neither an attempt to malign IBM's upcoming actions with regard to the employee's Pension Plan, nor is it to defend IBM's actions. I'm simply posting what should not come as a surprise to anyone. In today's America, with regard to corporate pension plans, the traditional meaning of retirement has vanished. Retirement as we once knew it has ended. By shifting away from defined benefit plans, American corporations have placed the burden of a lifetime of work on their employee's shoulders. The average American is not prepared to be an investment expert. Corporate employee's are not saving enough money so as to be able to retire and maintain the standard of living they enjoyed at the time of their retirement. Like IBM, many large corporations have stepped back from the pension promises made to their employee's, except of course, if you are the CEO. -Anonymous- Comment 12/26/07: There are 2 things wrong with your comment: 1. you have no evidence 2. you "assume". In other words, you don't know what you're talking about, you\'re just talking. -It's not obvious! ------------------------ Well "It's not obvious", all we have is past history to go on. That shows the statements to be possible. How can you say they are not? -Anon- Comment 12/24/07: "Obviousman" Wrote: While I have no direct evidence, I would assume that IBM executives along with execs of other large businesses with large pension assets are working to get their hands on those pension funds. There are 2 things wrong with your comment: 1. you have no evidence 2. you "assume". In other words, you don't know what you're talking about, you're just talking. -It's not obvious!- Comment 12/23/07: To "no-ky" - While I have no direct evidence, I would assume that IBM executives along with execs of other large businesses with large pension assets are working to get their hands on those pension funds. any way they can. Watch for a renewed full-court press of lobbyists and mercenaries like Watson Wyatt once the new administration and Congress is settled in office, regardless of party running the show. Once a crook, always a crook. A leopard never changes its spots. Robbers steal from where the money is and right now that's the pension funds. -Obviousman- Comment 12/22/07: -new con factor- Wrote; "have changed the conversion factors used to calculate pension payments." Read the plan. They didn't do anything outside the plan. Whine all you want, the fact is they change factors in November based on interest rate changes. -Read the Plan- Comment 12/21/07: Has anyone seen a clear explanation on HOW to frozen pension funds will be calculated and distributed ? I hope they do not use the funny money calculations that they tried to use in 1999. Cash Balance fiasco. Somehow they calculated that my total with the upgrade funds added would total UNDER $110K in 1999; then in 2005 my Lump Sum and Annuity combo was Lump SUm of over $200K and about $2K/month annuity for the second choicers new Old plan. For those of you that haven't left, I wish you the best, especially NA folks . You'll need it, if IBM succeeds in doing what it plans in 2008. -no-ky- Comment 12/21/07: TO: -new con factor- >>> Many times earlier in this forum and others, it has been mentioned that you had to retire (ie. Start collecting retirement pay) before 1/1/YEAR to get to utilize the conversion factors for the previous year. The conversion factor for the next year are made available around 11/15 and added to the estimators . Federal Law changed which rates are used in the calculations a few years back; Used to use Government Bond rates, but now it is Corporate Bond rates; which are higher. The initial year this happened, the conversion factor rates jumped over 2 percent ; now that was a BI.CH to handle. *** NOW > Since the OLD plan is FROZEN after the end of this year it won't change for any calculation for payment using a retirement date past 12/31/2007 and since they haven't formally disclosed how that frozen amount will be handled, if you haven't already retired (and already scheduled for a Retirement Check in 2007, you "MAY" be SCREWED more than you think. -no-ky- Comment 12/20/07: The form 5500 data for 2006 is available now at freeERISA.com. The pension fund net assets increased by $4,368,041,043 in 2006 to $52,909,773,120. The 2006 fund income was $7,351,433,007. Subtracting pension payments of $2,846,823,230 and admin expenses of $136,568,735 yields the net increase in assets. YE 2006 liabilities were $43,397,934,404. It appears that the fund has an excess of $9.511 billion. Think they are after this?. -FreeERISA- Comment 12/19/07: What action should we take to fight for our pensions? Does anyone have a plan? Has anyone drafted a union contract that we can post on this site to look at and see? Perhaps we could collaborate online to create the contract via these forums or on a wiki. That might help inspire the huddled masses. Otherwise it is too late... kiss it good bye as another lost & stolen promise. In this world, there is no safety net... you are on your own, baby! They will promise you all sorts of things, but in the end you cannot count on the word of liars. They will use you up and spit you out. It makes it easier on the wolf when there are only sheep. The next step will be to freeze and eliminate employer match contributions on your new enhanced plan. What are you going to do about it? It is easy to take candy from a baby. They may as well just go ahead and do it. -Joe punchclock- Alliance reply: The Alliance has had sample union contracts on our web site for some time. Considering that the pension will be frozen in 1 week we think it would have been wise for employees to speak out long before. The Alliance has consistently encouraged employees to join the organization, to write letters to the editor and raise their voices on this issue. Unfortunately most employees (many who have less than 5 years with the company) don't see the point. Comment 12/19/07: I am on a LOA to retirement and am on the prior plan, when I will hit 30 years on the nose. I just noticed that these IBM bastards have changed the conversion factors used to calculate pension payments. When I did a NetBenefits calculation in October, it used a 11.835 conversion factor. Today, for the EXACT SAME parameters, it used a 12.042 conversion factor. That's a reduction in monthly payments. An HR VP told me point blank that these factors wouldn't change. What a lying bunch of bastards. And, the lump sum payment was reduced by 2 percent, too. All I can say to Randy MacDonald and the rest of the idiots who came up with this screw job - GO STRAIGHT TO HELL. -new con factor- Comment 12/18/07: two weeks to a frozen pension. Any way to warm it up a bit? -Anonymous- Alliance Reply: How about organizing your co-workers and raise your voice to fight for a union contract? It's not too late, unless and until IBM shuts it doors and turns out the lights in the USA. Why not go for it? Comment 12/07/07: Still-Not_sure. I do not think anything affects your pension until you actually take it. You can select 0 percent for the spouse but any amount less then 50 percent( the PRSO percent) the spouse must sign off on to allow it. This was to prevent spouses from losing half your pension without their knowledge. If you die before collecting your spouse does not get an annuity but rather a small lump sum. so anything you would select pre retirement is a moot point if you die. A simple call to fidelity can confirm all this and in fact may be the only way to be sure as things have changed so much from what we were promised and what we supposed to what we are actualy getting we can no longer trust what we "THINK". -Exodus 2007- Comment 12/05/07: To Exodus 2007: As I understand it you retired on Oct 31, so you have 100% option for your spouse. But, I am still not sure if it applies to"pre-retirement spouse option" or if this option is still available for pre-retirement IBM employees? -Still-Not_sure- Comment 12/05/07: According to the IBMPENSION board, the default is 50% for the spouse if you die after retirement eligibility, but before retirement. -Joe- Comment 12/04/07: Yes the 100 percent option is still available. I just took it on Oct 31. -Exodus 2007- Comment 12/02/07: There used to be a pre-retirement spouse option that would let you specify the percentage of your pension that would go to your spouse if you died before retiring. I thought it became a default at 50% many years ago. I guess with all the pension changes, that may have gone away, but I don't remember ever reading that it did. -Jim- Alliance Reply: In 2002, the "pre-retirement spouse option" was also available in 100% choice for your spouse if you died before he/she did. It is unclear whether this 'option' was taken away or is still available. As an IBM'er with 28.5 years of service, at that time, that was the choice selected by several IBM'ers that I knew, including me. Those same IBM'ers were cheated out of a full retirement pension, when IBM sold off the Microelectronics division. They were short by 6 months, to 'bridge' to retirement. This meant only "vested rights" pensions for those individuals and no medical to boot... a fraction of what they should have gotten for 28.5 years of service . Comment 12/01/07: Congratulations to all who will be employed in Big Blew through 12/31/2007. As an IBM "benefit" you'll get to enjoy your full, deep frozen pension for 1/1/2008. If more of you reading this had joined the Alliance maybe we would still have a real pension. IBM corporate management to their employees: Seasons Beatings! -Anonymous- Comment 11/30/07: You don't choose the Joint&Survivor option until you actually retire. Prior to that you get nothing and your spouse gets nothing. That's why you must keep your insurance coverage until after you retire and get the first check. BTW: your pension and your wife's survivor benefits are in different "buckets". If you die and you still get a couple of pension checks before they find out, then they have to be paid back. Your surviving wife contacts the ESC and they start her share from the other "bucket".. -Anonymous- Comment 11/30/07: Frank. That selection is made as part of your retirement paperwork when you are actually retireing. It has always been that if you are not collecting pension you cannot leave any percent to your wife. All she would get is the lump sum death benefit. What it may have been is irrelevant. What it is now is what you get. I just retired Oct 31 by the way so I am current on this. Call Fidelity and ask them > Thats what they are paid for. -Exodus 2007- Comment 11/29/07: Anon, Exodus2007 and others - At one time, once you are eligible to retire (usually at 30 years of service or at 55), you had to select whether you want the joint and survivor option for your pension annuity for what they now call the prior plan. Can someone confirm that they still do that? If so, and you select the joint survivor option, that should provide benefit to your spouse in case you die before you retire, correct? I've also heard of retirees taking the single life annuity which gives a greater benefit, but they also take out term life insurance on themselves to provide for their spouse after they die. This is one of those topics where a fee for service financial planner can be helpful in figuring options and in mitigating risk. -Frank- Comment 11/28/07: For -whatif-. It stays in IBM's pocket. Your widow gets your death benefit. by the way, its frozen for those 2 years and you gain nothing on it. -Exodus 2007- Comment 11/28/07: To WhatIF - if you're an active employee and are on the previous pension plan and you die, there will be no pension payments since you haven't started collecting it yet. Having your 30 years in isn't relevant to that. I had a friend who was terminally ill and he retired because of this, so that his wife would get his Joint Survivor amount on his pension when he died. -Anon- Comment 11/27/07: On the Fence> Remember the cash balance forced conversion. If you do not take your pension IBM might very well take it for you. Away that is. I just took mine and hope everyone who can get theirs goes and gets it. That annuity stream is the only benefit we have left from the glory days of IBM. Get it while you can. -Exodus 2007- Comment 11/27/07: On the Fence - A mailing was made several weeks ago which had a brochure about the new 401K plus plan, however along with that was a separate 4 page notice regarding the old pension plan, which should answer some of your questions. Alternatively, the IBM Pension board on yahoo (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/) can answer many more of your questions. -Not a pension expert- Comment 11/27/07: I have a simple question. lets assume I have reached 30 years at IBM, and I want to retire in two years. So, I stick around for two more years. What happens to my retirement $$, if for some reason I die before i reach my retirement goal? -whatif- Comment 11/27/07: On the Fence.... I'm already retired, but Fidelity NetBenefits is where my pension information is. Just point your browser at http://netbenefits.fidelity.com When you log in, it should have a link to "IBM Personal Pension Plan - Prior Plan" -Jim- Comment 11/26/07: Is there any information about the availability of the old pesion plan after 2008 for employees who are elligable to collect a monthly check but still working past 2007? On the Fence- Comment 11/26/07: Income leveling is IBM's way of helping you to be sure you wont have any extra money when you are too old to work. Its like that J.G Wentworth commercial. Got a structured settlement or an annuity. Want your money NOW. We can help. Your better off working at McDonalds full time with benefits and leaving your Social Security to be a windfall when you can no longer make it to McDonalds and really need the money. Just my opinion. Also saves you money on benefits . -Exodus 2007- Comment 11/23/07: FICA is only deducted from earned income (wages and salary). FICA should never be deducted from pensions or anuities -RA'd bear- Comment 11/21/07: "IBM pension cks... do they withhold FICA and medicare? or only state and fed. taxes???" Why does this matter? -Anonymous- Comment 11/17/07:IBM pension cks... do they withhold FICA and medicare? or only state and fed. taxes??? -mr Tee- Comment 11/13/07: Go to www.freeerisa.com and sign up for free. You can then view the 5500 form for IBM, as well as schedules B, C, D, H, P, R. Most current is 2005. -Anonymous- Comment 11/11/07: I read in Businessweek Nov 2007, page 78) that starting in 2008, companies won't be able to make lump-sum distributions if their pension plans are more than 40% under-funded. Has anyone seen IBM's pension data "Form 5500" with the IRS to see if our pension plan is 100% funded, or at least healthy? I want to cash out if I get ditched-out. -Joe punchclock- Comment 11/09/07: Regarding the comments about SS leveling below: Although they change the rules all the time, I'm pretty sure that the way SS leveling works currently, they do *not* change the numbers once they are locked in. The amount that is deducted from the pension payment at the projected SS age (which doesn't even have to match the *actual* age at which you start getting SS) does not change at that point. It is the same number that was calculated at the beginning of retirement. The exception is that one can contest the original estimate from IBM, but only within a certain number of days from the beginning of retirement. If this initial recalculation results in a different amount, the employee might be asked to pay back the difference for those first few payments that used the wrong number. The numbers will *not* be adjusted after that initial lock-in however, regardless of the amount that SS eventually pays. Here are the precise words from some documents I saved last year: Note: Income leveling is not coordinated with the Social Security Administration and represents an actuarial adjustment of your benefits from IBM based on an estimate of your Social Security benefit. Once you elect this option, the IBM benefit payment amounts will not be changed, regardless of the actual amount you receive from Social Security or when Social Security payments commence. -alreadyGone- Comment 11/09/07: CNNMoney is running this story as well, but here is the law office link to the ERISA investigation of ya'lls 401k investing options. http://www.erisafraud.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1874 -BlueBlows- Comment 11/09/07: Interesting reading: Press Release Source: Keller Rohrback L.L.P. Keller Rohrback L.L.P. Announces ERISA Investigation of the IBM Savings Plan Thursday November 8, 5:20 pm ET
SEATTLE, Nov. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- Keller Rohrback L.L.P. (http://www.erisafraud.com)
today announced that it is investigating the IBM Savings Plan (the "Plan")
(NYSE: IBM - News) regarding the investment options offered to participants.
In particular we are concerned about the fees, expenses and performance
of investment options. If you are a participant in the IBM Savings Plan
and are concerned about the fees, expenses or performance of the investments
in your Plan, you may contact paralegal Jennifer Tuato'o or attorneys
Karin Swope or Derek Loeser toll free at 800/776-6044, or via e-mail at
investor@kellerrohrback.com. Comment 11/09/07: Remember the reason the pension ruling was overturned is that IBM was equally unfair to all those affected. -Anonymous- Comment 11/08/07: IBM recently sent employees on the former retirement plan a letter stating Federal law requires them to notify employees on the former retirement plan their retirement benefits are being completely reduced. IBM said earlier they estimate these reductions will save 200 to 500 million in the next 3 years. Therefore, if one does the math the total “savings” for the entire group on the former retirement plan is less than 5 billion. Considering in Q2 IBM added 14 billion to buy back stock and spent 12 billion of that within a month to artificially increase the price of the stock, it is not surprising that IBM stock is now approaching where it started from after getting a temporary $20 a share increase. Why spend 14 billion to make one quarter’s earnings projections and not spend 5 billion to keep promises made by management to employees for over 20 years? Especially since this five billion if fully funded for this purpose. How do you think the current employees feel about these types of decisions? Is this an incentive for employees to put in many hours of unpaid overtime? Was this really a wise business decision? We all know this was not a necessary decision. -Anonymous- Comment 11/07/07: Anyone who thinks that IBM's new 401k+ plan is going to allow you to replace what your frozen pension will cost you: THINK TWICE. Unless the stock market and higher risk and yielding funds do extremely well over the next few years and that is a BIG IF, you in all likelihood will not be able to save enough of money to replace benefits lost with a frozen pension with this new 401k plan. But you can be assured of this: IBM is saving money by doing this change (they admit it) and what they are saving is your deferred compensation that was a pension promise they made and now broke to you. -big_freeze&broken promise- Comment 11/02/07: I have heard horror stories from people who have taken the SS leveling option. If I understand correctly what they told me, the leveling is based upon what the projected SS payout will be. When you actually start to collect SS the actual number is deducted from your pension. In the cases I heard, the projections were always significantly less than the actual. The net result was the pension goes up slightly before SS, and goes to almost nonthing after SS starts. I heard of people who then owe IBM to cover their medical insurace because the pension once SS starts is so low. -Anonymous- Comment 10/31/07: To the SS leveling option is a poor choice, "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" seems to fit here. Especially with not having a job now and never knowing what IBM might change again down the line, I'd rather have the money now for I may die tomorrow. Also, with the TDSP and SS down the road plus any future jobs 401k I may be able to collect down the line, I should be able to cover the decrease come 62 since I am 51 now. Everyone's different though so it's not s good idea to generalize or say most to mislead people without them doing the research and soul searching on their own circumstances. -Anonymous- Comment 10/31/07: I think the SS Leveling option is a poor choice for most people. What this does is give you a higher pension payout in the years before you become eligible for SS. After eligibility the pension drops back so that your total income remains the same. The problem I see is inflation. I think it would be better to start with the lower pre-SS total income and get a bump when you reach the SS eligibility age. Thus your (total) income gets a shift in the same direction as inflation. BTW Social Security is inflation adjusted every year so you get a percent or two increase -- about equal to what one performers are getting nowadays. -Feeding On SS Now- Comment 10/29/07: Whenever I've had problems going to the NetBenefits site, I just to the fidelity site and login with my netbenefits id/pw. bingo - I'm there.... -Anonymous- Comment 10/29/07: Cant get to netbenefits site? Anyone experience this and find fix? -Anonymous- Comment 10/25/07: Pension plan changes coming up how do they affect you? The following IBM website http://www.incomesolutions.com/AnnuityCalculator.asp (Part of the TDSP IBM site ) is provided by IBM via the TDSP website to estimate annuity costs, Don't forget it is an "estimator" and make sure you run your own numbers for your own circumstances, and contact an Independent financial planner (not a company one) for a accurate assessment, the following is not intended for your unique circumstances, Questions to ask: - How much money will the company save money? Look for red flags like executive telling shareholder they will be reducing pension costs - Would the closure of the plans benefit employees? - When the plan closes would only the "notated value" or "actual value accrued" to date be paid would be payable. - What is the interest rate ? The interest rate historically it has been stated (by company executives) that investments typically grow at 8%, - Would the company use a higher interest rate to deflate the annuity value ? - Lower interest rates mean annuities cost more money, higher interests rates means annuities cost less, so the percentage used is key. - Do you understand your numbers ? what is your actual amount ? 1. An employee eligible to retire at the time of plan closure Dec 31 2007 , Say a Female age 51, with spouse as 100% survivor benefit 3.The payout at the time of closure (Dec 31 2007), would be approx $199,006 4. The cost of a pension annuity value would be $588,336 (if the employee actually retired) in 2007 5. So the difference in cost is ($588,336 the full annuity value minus - the cash out value of $199,006) = $389330 (Cost avoidance to the company) 6. Theoretically an the amount of $199,006 was invested at age 51 at 8%. At age 65 the amount would be $588,336. No difference in value at age 65 7. However , the employee would have to work another fourteen years to achieve the same pension value. 8. The benefit to companies is that the "future liability" is avoided, however those eligible for early retirement may have to take "an adjustment " 9. To achieve a value of $588,336 by age 65 at a compounded rate of 8% (the higher the percentage, the lower the starting value) the amount invested at age 51 would be aprox $199,006 at age 51. At age 60 the amount invested would be 387,000 to achieve $588,336 at age 65 -Pension Myths- Comment 10/24/07: Rolled my pension over to my TDSP. It took about 7 weeks from start to having check in my hand to forward onward to Hewitt. -Printer_Princess- Comment 10/23/07: Showmethemoney: Even when IBM freezes the pension plan they still get nice tax breaks. They still control the money in the plan even with ERISA. Except the tax breaks they get ny offering a pension aren't enough for these filthy, stealing, greedy, f***ing SOB's to continue funding an employee pension. If they terminate the plan and let you "have the money" they lose the tax break. So they probably will not do this. So IBM wins twice and you lose: they still get a nice tax break for"offering" a pension previously and they rob you of your full pension by freezing it. It's so simple, ain't it????? But everyone who has not joined the Alliance so far thinks IBM would not do this to them..ever.. guess what they are doing it to you and will continue to stick it to you without a contract. -pension-me-this- Comment 10/23/07: For those who have rolled over your pension when you left, about how long did the process take, start to finish? Did you have any problems in doing so? -Anonymous- Comment 10/22/07: Big Question. If IBM chooses to not invest my pension money then why not hand over the money and let me invest it? They keep telling me it's wonderful that we get to manaage our own 401k plans now . So give me the money and I'll put it in a 401K. Pracitce what you preach. Can we sue for incompetent management of our retirement funds and refusal to invest? -Showmethemoney- Alliance Reply: The burden of proof that IBM, not the fund manager (s), mismanaged or broke their own rules of fund investment wisdom(?), is totally and completely on your shoulders. Lawsuits against companies for breaking their own rules, never really see the light of day. Research it, and let us know if that's not true. Organize. Work toward a contract that negotiates things like 401k plans, benefits, pensions, among other issues important to IBM employees. Comment 10/22/07: Hey if anyone of you folks thinks the "new IBM 401K+" will compensate you for your frozen pension better THINK Twice! You can still try to negotiate with IBM to save your pension and keep it liquid: but you need a contract and you need it NOW. Without it you might as well keep kicking yourself. You can be assured IBM will keep kicking you. -pensionornot- Comment 10/21/07: >> ALSO as a side note, the detailed report seems to now include the settlement figure from the cash balance lawsuit. In my case, the 'settlement' appears to add about $10 (that's ten dollars) PER YEAR to my reduced IBM pension. I do see all the thank you notes to the individuals who negotiated this settlement. I don't know if they are aware of how small the settlement actually is. Ten dollars per year. -Anon-<< To Anon: I don't know how closely you watched the progress of the lawsuit. Just as a refresher, IBM won their appeal of the cash balance issues. The only part of the settlement that is being paid out is based on the 1995 age discriminatory conversion from a traditional pension to a pension equity plan. That piece of the settlement was only $300 million and was divided across 250,000 employees and retirees. If you didn't have a substantial earned pension already in 1995, then you didn't get a very large share. I wish we had won the appeal. I wish the other $1.4 billion of the settlement was being paid out. But wishes don't get us very far. And by the way, I was not a party at the settlement table; I am only an informed reporter. -Janet Krueger, Rochester- Comment 10/21/07: Hello, I posted yesterday a comment about the impact of the cash balance plan and the later settlement. My post probably made it sound like I was blaming the team who negotiated the settlement. That would be unfair. My message should have been, that ERISA only protected benefits which Would have been paid out after age 65. For me, that would have meant staying at IBM for over 40 years. Since I didn't plan to stay that long, I lost out on the expected value of the benefits I'd have received after age 52. I'd appreciate if you would not post my earlier comments since I wrote them after coming across some old estimates I had run, and was reminded of what a huge impact this had on me (and all others in the same boat.) Credit to the team who took a stand and tried to negotiate a settlement. Thank you. -Anon- Comment 10/20/07: I've asked before, and will ask one more time. I was a long time IBM employee when the cash balance plan was established. I missed the deadline because I was just a few months younger than 40. I then waited for the 'settlement'. Very recently, IBM appears to have added the 'settlement' information to the annuity 'estimates' in 'Netbenefits'. To sum up, it appears TO ME, that my annuity under the old plan would have been in the range of $40-50K, and that my annuity under the cash plan is in the range of $8-9K PER YEAR. SO two questions to 'Janet' (she negotiated this?): 1. Is this what you thought you negotiated? 2. Any other guidance? I assume you had some idea of what was happening, right? Thanks so much for your guidance, support, or whatever. -Have asked before- Comment 10/15/07: So......... does either the W3.ibm.com internal pension calculator or the Fidelity NetBenefits calculator accurately reflect the pension changes coming at the end of the year? Any new news there? Tks! -2nd Choicer- Comment 10/15/07: To 10/13/07 2nd-choice questioner: From your original post, it sounds like you're stuck in the job, but the good news is that you won't be hurt by the pension freeze as much as some others will, since you've already hit 30 years. (And the really good news for you came in '99, when you got that 2nd choice, which a lot of our friends and colleagues didn't get.) If you run NetBenefits for an end-of-year departure and look at the link that shows how your pension was calculated, you can see how many points you'll have accumulated at the end of this year, when the freeze takes affect, versus the maximum possible points. I doubt that you are maxed out. If not, then your pension would have continued to grow without the freeze. On the plus side, you will get some extra money in your 401K next year. The biggest risk you are taking though, is that they could decide to do another cash-balance conversion on the remaining 2nd-choicers. I retired out of fear that this would happen, but I think now that I might have been overly paranoid. There's nothing to stop them from doing it again, however. -alreadyGone- Comment 10/15/07: no_ky - Agreed, I did need to do more legwork myself. That's exactly why I have been reading Netbenefits, run the estimator and callled the ESC. As a result, I'm only slightly more knowledgeable than I was on 10/12 when I originally posted my question about the 1/1/08 pension freeze. By running the estimator, I saw what my monthly pension anuity check **might be** depending upon the various ages I might retire from IBM. What I did find useful in your response is that IBM has yet to detail the conditions of the freeze and must do so by 11/15/07. I didnt know that piece of information, and it's certainly worth knowing. If you see it prior to 11/15, you gonna post it here? -Anonymous- Comment 10/15/07: It's sad that IBM doesn't educate us all more about what the pension freeze will mean to all of us: either "traditional", grandfathered/grandmothered defined benefit plan, first choicers, second choicer, those forced to the cash balance plan, and later 401k pension plan, etc. will mean to us all individually. Let's not make them successful in dividing us in our confusion and discussion of this. An anonymous poster mentioned "forgive me for my ignorance about the upcoming pension freeze" and I can have sympathy with since IBM is purposely confusing the issue by their lack of communication! Just goes to show IBM doesn't care about any of our pensions and what impact it will be to us. So let's all try to constructively help each other understand what IBM wants to continue to obsfucate from day one of the announcement of the pension freeze and what it'll mean to each of us individually. -sby_willie- Comment 10/15/07: To anonymous who made comments about to the reply about "are you a second choicer" and to "BigBlows" replies about the upcoming freezing of the IBM pension plans: Remember that folks are worse off than you when it comes to the pension plan. We are all frustrated. We are all, like yourself, not ignorant either. I understand you can be upset, but understand the ignorance of many IBMers who have NO CLUE and are ASKING NOW what a frozen pension means shows they still just don't get it! If you haven't joined the Alliance you would have had the answer to your question months ago. It's sad now..now IBM has nothing to stop them from freezing the pension come 1/1/2008 and the ramifications we all will experience because of it. If we stood united earlier this year we could have pressured IBM to reconsider. Collective action works. But we have to all be in solidarity and working together for it to happen. -frozen_solid- Comment 10/15/07: RE: Comment 10/13/07: I dont want to make trouble here, but this is just too much to take a pass on. I asked the question if anyone knew what impact freezing pensions on Jan 1st might have on my pension, since mine was frozen last year. I also stated " I'm in the defined benefit prior plan as a second choicer". You need to do some "leg-work" yourself. If you are a second choicer, then your plan has NOT been frozen yet. You need to go to the NETBENEFITS site and read up on your plan and what it entails. Call IBM-HR and ask for them to define what the conditions of your plan are to you. The documentaton on Netbenefits does this, but may not easily explain the answers to your questions. If you have not run the RETIREMENT ESTIMATOR programs, WHY NOT ?? It is your retirement that you should be looking after. The answers to your question cannot be answered until IBM details the conditions of the FREEZE, which I have not seen yet. If they do not do so by NOV. 15, then the freeze "should" need to be delayed, due to the NOTIFICATION period and federally mandated time allowed to choose. BUT, IBM probably has gotten some advice on how to dance around this "law". -no_ky- Comment 10/13/07: I dont want to make trouble here, but this is just too much to take a pass on. I asked the question if anyone knew what impact freezing pensions on Jan 1st might have on my pension, since mine was frozen last year. I also stated " I'm in the defined benefit prior plan as a second choicer". The first reply I saw begins by asking "Are you in the cash balance plan?" I apologized for my ignorance. If you really want to help the Alliance's cause, maybe you should apologize for yours. All you did was hurt the Alliance's credibility when you post statements like that. And then "BigBlows" tells me what I already knew, namely that IBM will come out ahead with the new pension rules and to join the Alliance. I thought I could come here and use this site as a source of useful information, but obviously I cant. -Anonymous- Comment 10/13/07: Be careful with the SS leveling option. IBM will cut your retirement once you are eligible for SS even if SS is not there once you reahc the age. -An Observer- Comment 10/13/07: "I've never run the pension estimator, and I'm wondering what the impact of IBM freezing pension's on 1/1/2008 will be on mine, (if any) since it has already been frozen" You better believe that IBM will come out adead with the new pension rules. you lose and IBM wins. IBM could care less about your pension. join the Alliance and help us make a difference for the IBM employee. -BigBlows- Comment 10/13/07: DM. Age matters only because IBM uses it to reduce your monthly payout from say 2200 per month at age 65 to 1650 per month at age 50 even with 30 years at 50. The answer your given is its an anuity and you will be collecting it 15 years longer so its reduced accordingly. The question of frozen Jan 1 is how they will decide to distribute said pension. Fear is a cash balance conversion if you have not taken it as an annuity prior to jan 1. The difference also is frozen at 30 accrued benifits untill 30 years. Frozen jan1 stops any accrual say at 20 years. one third less pension possibly, or less because of compounding interest etc. Based on track records I would get it now, lock it in, work at another job( walmart, lowes etc) just to get benefits saves a fortune. Look for better while you work but start enjoying life. Good luck to all! -exodus 2007- Comment 10/12/07: To anonymous on 10/12/07: Are you in the cash balance plan? If so, the frozen pension is going to hurt you since a frozen cash balance plan means you will collect less pension credits than if it wasn't frozen. Your pension will be less, much less. That is why IBM decided to freeze the pensions: to save them money and screw you out of what they promised! In my case, I needed to not have worked 30 years to collect a "full IBM pension amount under the old defined benefit plan" as a cash balance pension "non-choicer", but needed to work at least 37 years to get close to what I would have gotten under the defined benefit plan if I was not "forced converted" by a callous unfair, and age discriminatory IBM. Now with being an IBM employee for 23.5 years I have no chance with a frozen pension on 1/1/2008 to ever dream of getting my "full IBM pension" by working at least 37 years since the pension will be frozen well before this time! -Anonymous- Comment 10/12/07: This will sound ignorant, so I apologize. In October of last year I reached 30 years of service with IBM and I'm aware that my pension has been frozen. I've never run the pension estimator, and I'm wondering what the impact of IBM freezing pension's on 1/1/2008 will be on mine, (if any) since it has already been frozen. I'm in the defined benefit "prior plan" as a second choicer. I'd appreciate any comments/insight anyone may have to offer, however, as much as I'd love to take that pension and leave IBM, I have personal reasons (which I'll not discuss here with anyone) that preclude me from doing so. -Anonymous- Comment 10/11/07: I left last November with 29 years and change with a bridge at age 50. I just started collecting my annuity in August at my 30 year aniversary. Age doesn't matter if you have the 30 years. The part you will be getting screwed on though is that since you are not gonna be age 50 if you leave at 49 you lose you FHA, future health account. So if your planning on leaving stay if you can till at least your 50th birthday if at all possible or you lose the whole FHA. Even then you won't be able to collect your FHA till your age 55. I have about $29k in the FHA now and it keeps collecting interest so it will be somewhat of a help at age 55. As far as if you get laid off, you can collect COBRA at the same rate as when you got laid off for a year and a half, so use that as well. Beware though cause there's somehow 2 Cobra rates. The first one I got quoted in the mail shortly after I left and it was some redilculus amount like $600 a month for my wife and I. Turns out I had to call the special number in the severance package which was different that the quote I was sent in the mail and it was only $130 for wife and I for the benefit package I left with again for a year and half. I think the first COBRA rate I was issued was if I was later to use the FHA benefits to buy IBM benefits, what I'd be paying then but it was very confusing at first. Luckily I talked to a guy that I was laid off with and he set me straight otherwise I would have been out in the dark cause you have like 60 days to file for the cheap severance COBRA after you leave. Hope I haven't confused you. The Main thing is to try and get the 50 age in addition to the 30 years to lock in FHA. But after that you can collect immediatley as I have the annuity. Also, I took the age 62 Social Security Leveling. Which is allowing me to collect $1800 a month from now till age 62 then it goes down to $500 for life with my wife getting $600 when I die. It was that or $700 from now on till life. I'm rounding figures so don't quote me, I'm just giving you an idea with out having to get exact numbers but their close. I was collecting $58000 a year salary also when I left for your reference. I took the leveling at the earliest age as well cause I need the money now and it is worth more to me now than later and I still have my 401k and hope to work on another retirement if I can find a new job hopefully soon, cause even with the leveling I can't pay the bills. -DM- Comment 10/11/07: You can retire and collect your pension with 30 years of service (any age). -ex-manager- Comment 10/11/07: I can't tell you about now since I recently retired but it "used to be" that you could retire (with pension) at any age with 30 years of service. You will need to check the plan documents. Here's where they WERE when I left 6 months ago: Check them often. As you can see, they change often and without notice..... -Anonymous- Comment 10/11/07: jk update: I called HR, and was directed to http://w3-01.ibm.com/hr/images/ushr108.pdf This may not format well, but here it is (I am eligible for an enhanced pension & asked for an estimate): Per the "About Your Benefits" Doc: 1.6.4.1 Enhanced Annuities You are eligible to receive an enhanced annuity under the Personal Pension Account if you met the following three criteria: * You had been continuously employed by a participating employer during the one-year period immediately preceding July 1, 1999, or were rehired prior to July 1, 1999, and had at least one year of benefit service as of July 1, 1999 (based on pension reference date); * Your age plus service equaled at least 50, or you were at least 40 years old, as of June 30, 1999; and 21 * You remain continuously employed by IBM from June 30, 1999, through your earliest retirement eligibility date as defined under the prior plan. -jk- Comment 10/11/07: printer_princess is incorrect. there is an enhanced annuity which I believe applies to a small number of IBM employees who 1. lost the defined benefit plan and got the cash balance plan and who also 2. reach a certain number of years at IBM (30 years sounds correct). The only way to determine whether you are eligible for this 'enhanced annuity' is to run some estimates on the IBM cash balance netbenefits site, AND to examine the reports related to 'how this benefit was calculated'. If you choose an estimate in your 30+ year of IBM employment, you May see an enhanced annuity figure. ALSO as a side note, the detailed report seems to now include the settlement figure from the cash balance lawsuit. In my case, the 'settlement' appears to add about $10 (that's ten dollars) PER YEAR to my reduced IBM pension. I do see all the thank you notes to the individuals who negotiated this settlement. I don't know if they are aware of how small the settlement actually is. Ten dollars per year. -Anon- Comment 10/10/07: I will have 29 years when the pension freezes and im 49 years old. Does anyone know if i can collect a pension with 30 years of service or do i have to wait untill im 55. I've asked management, but of course they dont know or will find out for me...I appreciate any feedback..... -Anonymous- Comment 10/10/07: jk- you're not eligible for the enhanced annuity. Like you, I was 9 months too young for the defined benefit. Only the people who were 40yrs old as of June, 99 are eligible for the enhanced annuity. When printers was sold off to Ricoh, I transferred my cash balance out of IBM and into my TDSP. The IBM TDSP is one of the least expensive 401Ks available. Well managed, and provides the means for a much better return on your investment than the measly 6% IBM is giving you on your retirement fund. But, as long as you remain with IBM, the money must stay in their hands. -printer_princess- Comment 10/10/07: to jk: I'm in same position as you...11 months too young to have had a choice. Yes there is an Enhanced Annuity option that applies if you leave IBM after 30 years, are still not 65, and take the PPA as an annuity. Haven't found any specifics as to exactly how it works but if you use pension calculator to look at annuity at various retirement ages and then look at the Details view you'll see it there. -victim too- Comment 10/09/07: Less than 90 days till a frozen pension. If you don't know what a frozen pension is going to mean to you you better learn and plan fast since time is running out. Without a contract you can't negotiate anything with IBM and can expect more bad surprises from IBM. -sby_willie- Comment 10/09/07: Hey, did IBM ever get around to officially filing papers for the upcoming 2008 pension freeze? My understanding is this hadn't happened and they have a deadline to do so - 60 days perhaps? -Anonymous- Comment 10/08/07: I missed the defined benefit in 99 - only 39 yrs old. While converted to the cash balance pension, I always assumed, that, when leaving, I'd take the money and roll it into some IRA... My question: Is there a large annuity bump given to guys in my position, if I manage to stay 30 years? I am hearing I should check out something called an Enhanced Annuity, and not give up on the annuity from IBM just yet. -jk- Comment 10/04/07: This could explain why those SSR's selected for IPS have been told if they retire before transitioning they cannot work for the new company. Keep them waiting to transition while their pension annuity little as it may be is stolen out from under them. Then they will be at the mercy of whatever lowball job offer they get from IPS as they will not have the pension annuity to fall back on. Ibm hands them their puny cash balance and walks away. Then patents the move as a way to reduce penion obligations while outsourcing and downsizing an old workforce into poverty. -Exodus 2007- Comment 10/04/07: To alreadyGone - thanks for the clarification. What I had missed, was the possibility that even those who kept the original IBM defined benefit plan, might still see their benefits reduced! My own experience was that I wasn't given a 'choice', and I saw the benefits I thought I had earned greatly reduced. Or to put this more specifically (for anyone who is between age 51 and 65 today, and who has the original IBM defined benefit plan): ERISA DID NOT PROTECT OR GUARANTEE any retirement payments which I would have received between age 51 and age 65. This resulted in a ridiculously low net present value for my expected benefits, when the cash balance plan was first set up. Or to put this another way, if you expect to draw a defined benefity annuity between your 30 year IBM anniversary and your 65th birthday, and if IBM *were* to convert again to a cash balance, then don't expect your cash balance to include that potential 14 (or so) years of pension payout between age 51 and 65. Also alreadyGone - thank you for not questioning my intelligence! -Thank you!- Comment 10/04/07: To Thank you!: I won't call you an idiot! We have evidence (on tape, once played on NBC Nightly News) that the pension laws are obscure and confusing by design, so that corporations can skin employees before they know it's happening. Under current US law all IBM pensions (1st choice, 2nd choice, and cash balance) are protected, assuming that IBM is not privatized or bankrupted. So they can't take away the "value" of your already-earned pension. They can decide to pay it in a different form, and the so-called Pension Protection Act of last year gives them some accounting tools that could make a cash-balance conversion an even worse deal going forward. If that's not enough to concern folks, though, there's this: over 50% of federal judges are now of the political persuasion that would not be expected to support employee rights versus interests of corporations. So choose wisely when you vote for legislators, since there is no longer a backstop in the courts. -alreadyGone- Comment 10/02/07: Thank you. And if I didn't make it clear before, I wasn't a 'choicer' (whatever that is... apparently it means something to someone.) So, Anonymous, I hope that whoever does - or did - have a 'choice' - that they understand that their pension is still NOT guaranteed. If that's true. If I understand you. Or if someone on this board doesn't call me and idiot. Which they will. -Thank you!- Comment 10/02/07: to is this correct?: Check out the Yahoo! pension site and the cash balance pension site that discusses this further. Well, yes, they can steal your future pension benefits since the current laws say that cash balance pension conversions are legal. So if IBM wants to force convert the second choicers it legally can do so now. I wouldn't put it past them come 2008 and beyond. Legal battles have been fought over this and I hope the battles continue and overturn current ERISA laws since companies like IBM go back on promises made and practice stealing employee pension benefits and defend doing it as the "right thing to do" for their continuing business. BTW, Don't think Sam Palmisellout will ever have his IBM pension stolen or force converted to a pittance pension plan. If anything, his might even get more lucrative than it already is. -Anonymous- Comment 09/27/07: Reference: 'They can, however, for as long as you are an employee, use creative accounting methods to change the assumptions about how much the pension is worth, and change the method of payout. (For example, they could convert it to a cash balance again.)' -alreadygone- Is the above reference correct, and if so, does this mean that employees who thought they had a DEFINED BENEFIT PLAN (the original IBM pension plan), might get the same bad treatment that others of us have had? That is to say, get their pension stolen? Thanks! -is this correct?- Comment 09/27/07: Completely baffled: "Second-choicers" are the folks who were originally dumped into the new cash-balance plan in 1999, then, later, given a choice of going with the new plan or staying with the old one (modulo the medical benefits of the prior plan). Given your age and service, I assume that you are in that group. When I was trying to figure out whether I could/should retire, I got a lot of information from the Yahoo! IBM pension board (the link above). It sounds like IBM hasn't published the details of the new (2008) plan. They will have to do this when the new plan takes affect. Until they officially publish the new plan, there's really only one thing that you know for sure: under current law, they cannot deny you the pension that you have earned at the end of this year. You should be able to calculate that with the Netbenefits tool. They can, however, for as long as you are an employee, use creative accounting methods to change the assumptions about how much the pension is worth, and change the method of payout. (For example, they could convert it to a cash balance again.) -alreadygone- Comment 09/26/07: -Completely baffled-wrote: To C B N, I calculated for withdrawal at age 62 for all scenarios, so something is still unclear. Then you need to take the results of each individual run, print out the details of the run - the report that shows the detailed calculations. Take a close look at which numbers are higher. Then call the ESC and ask for an explanation as to why the numbers change from run to run. The first person you get at the ESC will not be able to answer the question, you'll need to escalate to get an expert in the plan . You didn't say how much the numbers grow, some growth is probably normal because of interest compounding. -C B N- Comment 09/25/07: To Been Screwed: We got hired the same year! You are so right. It is time to move on. If we don't do it of our own accord, IBM will do it for us. We're at the point in our careers, where our salaries are too high, and there are lots of others out there on H1b visas who would love to fill in for us. -miss understanding- Comment 09/25/07: Thank you to both Completely Baffled Not and Already Gone for your input. To C B N, I calculated for withdrawal at age 62 for all scenarios, so something is still unclear. To A G, I realize this is all fuzzy math from your perspective, but it did give me continuingly increasing numbers at several departure ages, not just a 55 bump. BTW is "second choice" old plan? Other than here, where do folks go for information to attempt to make informed decisions. Please don't say HR. Thanks again. -Completely baffled- Comment 09/25/07: For Completely Baffled: I haven't looked at NetBenefits recently, but that calculator used to say that it was not accurate going forward after 2007. If it's still giving you estimates for post-2007, you can play around with them and see how badly you've been screwed, as long as you understand that it's for entertainment purposes only. One useful thing you may be able to figure out, though, is your early-retirement "bump" if you stay for 2 more years ('til full-retirement eligibility at age 55). Last year, when Randy McD. came around for Q&A's about the announced freeze, he said that the exception to the freeze would be that there would still be a bump to the otherwise frozen benefit for second-choice employees who stayed until age 55 or 30 years. This was confirmed in the online Q&A...subject to change based on needs of the business, I'm sure. Janet K. or Kathi C. might contradict this (they'd know better than me), but I don't think this "bump" is considered to be earned at the time of the program change, so it may not be legally mandated in any way. -alreadyGone- Comment 09/24/07: To RA;d bear - aren't you better off rolling your cash balance into your 401K and let it continue to grow tax free until you are of the age to take some out without penalties? -Anonymous- Comment 09/24/07: When a lefted my state job in 1984 I was told that IBM benifits were the best in the industry. We were given a benefit booklet that showed your age and years of service verus pension revenue returns. Its a sorry day when the rules of the game change ! Sorry thing is that most major companies still offer pension and 401K plans. specially state and government career positions. Time to move on! IBM, thanks for wasting 23 years of my life !! -Been Screwed- Comment 09/24/07: -Completely baffled- wrote: What part of frozen pension do I not understand? Having just got off of the Net Benefits pension calculator, and been given data for monthly pension benefit for working: 1,2,3,5... more years and seeing the monthly payout rise, I am completely confused. The longer you delay your retirement (collecting your pension) the fewer years the pension plan will pay you an annuity that's based on the value of your accrued pension value. Therefore, the monthly payment will increase. The frozen pension isn't increasing, you're taking the money over fewer years. -Completely Baffled Not- Comment 09/22/07: Anybody know when we are supposed to receive our Cooper settlement? I opted to roll it into my 401K but have heard nothing more. I'm getting the princely sum of $377 but every little bit helps. Sign me -ExBigBlueandGlad- Comment 09/22/07: Where's the NEW retirement tool?? It's almost October. Still hearing the 'leave in 2007 if you have 30 yrs in, get the old plan... Leave in 2008 and after everyone gets the Cash balance" rumor...... -Ole d. Guy- Comment 09/22/07: What part of frozen pension do I not understand? Having just got off of the Net Benefits pension calculator, and been given data for monthly pension benefit for working: 1,2,3,5... more years and seeing the monthly payout rise, I am completely confused. For the record: age 53, old plan, and 21 years. -Completely baffled- Comment 09/20/07: This all assumes you're retirement eligible. If not, then it's a different ballgame. -Still Confused- Comment 09/20/07: -RA'd bear- said "I am better off putting the balance in a CD and drawing the interest from a IRA. That way we keep the principle and live off the interest. My wife's benefit would be 100% of what I would get and on our demise, the principle would go to the estate." Absolutely correct, and the way to go if one has the discipline invest the money, and tolerate market fluctuations. Although a CD won't fluctuate, the return is low compared to the market return over time, as in years. I still don't understand your issue. You said earlier "got my pension settlement estimate from IBM on the cash balance plan." Cash balance plan would indicate you're getting cash to invest? Under the old pension plan you can take the accrued pension value thru (I think June) 1999 as lump sum (rolled into an IRA) and the value from June 1999 must be taken as an annuity. Are you in the old plan or the cash balance plan??. -Still Confused- Comment 09/20/07: -lump_sum_for_2008- I'm curious about folks leaving Oct 1st. I'm retired now but I remember the estimator showing Oct. 1st as the max value for the year. It had something to do with the "fiscal year" being Oct->Sept and the interest rates as set by the GATT treaty. -Anonymous- Comment 09/20/07: To: Confused. The point is that they are giving me the interest on the money that I would normally make if I put in a CD. If I was to die, my wife would only get 50% of what I get. Then on my or her demise the principle with revert to IBM. I am better off putting the balance in a CD and drawing the interest from a IRA. That way we keep the principle and live off the interest. My wife's benefit would be 100% of what I would get and on our demise, the principle would go to the estate. -RA'd bear- Comment 09/20/07: -RA'd bear- wrote: What they are offering in pension anuity is basically the annual interest income I can get on the balance by dropping it in a long term jumbo CD. And my wifes survivor benefit would be 50% of my monthly anuity. Gee whiz IBM. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's getting screwed! Why do you say "getting screwed"? You're getting the guaranteed income from the plan as promised. What's your issue? Can you elaborate? -Confused- Comment 09/19/07: To Pension Analysis: Your plan sounds good, but we need more details/explanation of how it works. Can you expand on the details? -Ironman- Comment 09/18/07: Yesterday I got my pension settlement estimate from IBM on the cash balance plan. Although I am not 55 yet, I am suprised that I could imediately start taking my money in an anuity. Looks tempting when you look at the sum I can actually start drawing until you get a closer look. What they are offering in pension anuity is basically the annual interest income I can get on the balance by dropping it in a long term jumbo CD. And my wifes survivor benefit would be 50% of my monthly anuity. Gee whiz IBM. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's getting screwed! -RA'd bear- Comment 09/13/07: -TrustIBMNot- : You got it right! Let's see how many employees will leave on 1/1/2008 when the pensions are frozen. Most I reckon will take their piddly cash balance plan lump sum and run with it. Who can blame them, right? -lump_sum_for_2008- Comment 09/11/07: IBM has no ethics and would rob a baby for more profit. So, how hard is it to think that IBM wants to find a way to rob all IBM US retirees of their pension money? After all, the bottom line will be improved and that's good for us all, I'm sure IBM will tell you... Keep a close eye on iBM what laws the company is pushing for. Your lifes work and pension compensation may count on it! -TrustIBMNot- Comment
08/30/07:
Yes, but you
must have the full life insurance in force to cover the pension BEFORE
you retire. In my case, I started this planning years ago, but realized
whole life insurance that I had gotten in the 80's was not as financially
attractive. Within 180 days of retirement, I started getting quotes, analyzing
the viability of the quoters, then chose a quote. Got the policy, made
sure it would pay as soon as I left, then took the SLA. Used the Berkshire
site to get the actuarial amount, then used Merrill Lynch to validate
my work. If you have a sizeable estate, you might consider a life insurance
trust, so the proceeds upon your death are not considered part of probated
estate, thus saving you some estate tax exposure. Another advantage of
life insurance is that you can change beneficiaries if your wife dies
first. You might look into a policy that has a declining payment over
the term of 20-30 years to match the declining actuarial value of the
DB pension. -Pension Analysis-
Comment 08/29/07: To -Pension Analysis- Thanks for the info. So, just to clarify, you took the pension from IBM as a single life annuity ? -pension-question- Comment 08/29/07: The decision to have the J&S option penalty to your pension is not to be taken lightly. Everyone should fully analyze their individual situation. In my case, I was very wary of my wife dealing with IBM after I die. So instead of taking any J&S, I took a very large 25-year term life insurance policy to supplement my current life policies in force. Essentially, I converted my SLA (Single Life Annuity) monthly amount into an actuarily equivalent total dollar amount. That meant that if I died, my wife would get from several insurance companies, not IBM, a lump sum which she could then either put into an annuity or to dispose of as she felt. It turned out for me that the net result saved me about 300/mo as compared to going through J&S. It also gives me peace of mind that IBM will be totally out of my wife's life (with the possible exception of FHA) if I die. This is very much an individual decision. Your health, your wife's health, your policies in force and the financials will influence your decision. Do the analysis, get a professional to review it. It may save you significant money. -Pension Analysis- Comment 08/27/07: "The thing to be careful: the money needs to be transfered directly from Fidelity to your IRA trustee. If you handle the money, it is taxable as well as incuring a 10% penalty. -RA'd bear-" Not exactly correct. The money will be sent to you, by Fidelity, in the form of a paper check. You must then deposit the check into your IRA account. Fidelity does not transfer the money directly to your IRA trustee. This is the case for both moving your 401K money out of IBM or taking part of your pension as a lump sum. The pension lump sum amount can be rolled into an IRA with no immediate tax burden. -Been there-Done that- Comment 08/23/07: USA IBM Folks: your pension is going to freeze dried come 12/31/07. IBM will keep the pension money of yours in their pension coffers until you leave or they can you. You will get no further increase to your pension other than maybe some piddily "interest credits" likely to be pathetic %. Do you understand this???? Don' think that on 1/1/2008 you can roll a freeze dried pension over to your 401k or anything. Want to change this? GET A CONTRACT and UNIONIZE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -frozen_solid- Comment 08/22/07: If you are age 55 or older the year you retire then you can access your 401K without any penalty, under current law. RE: Comment 08/18/07: If you retire and are not 59 1/2 yet (say you are 43) and you have pension money coming, are you able to roll it into an IRA? If not then if you do not want to take a tax hit what else could you do? -no_ky- Comment 08/20/07: 59 1/2 retirement question. Your pension balance can be rolled into a standard IRA (not a Roth). The IBM pension web site has instructions on how to do this. The thing to be careful: the money needs to be transfered directly from Fidelity to your IRA trustee. If you handle the money, it is taxable as well as incuring a 10% penalty. -RA'd bear- Comment 08/18/07: If you retire and are not 59 1/2 yet (say you are 43) and you have pension money coming, are you able to roll it into an IRA? If not then if you do not want to take a tax hit what else could you do? -Anonymous- Comment 07/27/07: To Significant Other: I'm retired now and did quite a bit of research regarding my Pension. IBM had or still has 4 or 5 different pension options, depending on your age and years of service. The Prior Plan which I was under previously actually saw my pension amount decrease monthly once my spouse reached a certain age (approximately age 56 I beleive). It took a SpeakUp and several months to figure out why my pension was going down yearly. The insurance company finally gave me a copy of their actuary tables. I think that was Aetna at the time. The older my wife got, the more my pension decreased for a J/S 50% option. I hung out for a few more years and had enough points for the Personal Pension Plan, but then the highest 5 year averaging hit me. IBM recalssified my job position, which decreased my salary for one year and that affected my 5 highest year's calculation. So in effect, my pension was frozen, no matter how many more years I remaind at IBM. One peice of information, before deciding whether to retire or remain, check out IBM's documents, the PDF manuals relating to the pension plan and medical benefits. The last pages document new changes or take-aways from employees. Sometimes employees are never made aware of changes by way of an announcement. Best of luck. -Anonymous- Comment 07/27/07: To Already Gone: Thanks again for the help in analysis. You hit my question straight on, as my confusion has been the frozen pension relative to any previous bump at 55. I haven't been able to reconcile how both points could be factual. -significant other- Comment 07/25/07: To significant Other: If I understand your situation correctly, if you make 55 and retire, you get a lovely parting gift and a letter from Sam (oh wait, Sam will be on the Riviera by then, so, Sam's follow-on) thanking you for your contributions (insert your own joke here). You also get a bump to your pension, even though pension contributions are otherwise frozen by that time. (Standard disclaimer: based on Q&A's by HR and presentations by Randy M. Actual mileage may vary.) In addition, if you have *any* reason that you will have trouble getting insurance (e.g., too tall, too heavy, etc., see "Sicko" for examples), the FHA (again, not guaranteed by law, etc., etc.), as it currently stands, will allow you to continue to get, albeit expensive, health insurance. I know a few people who are continuing at IBM precisely for this reason. Even though the IBM insurance is expensive, it is available. Otherwise, they would probably be unable to get insurance at all. -alreadyGone- Comment 07/24/07: Thank you, anonymous, for your thoughts. Perhaps I should have added (1) old plan (2) age 53 (3) plus or minus 21 years. What is gained by staying til 55? Thank you. -significant other- Comment 07/23/07: To Significant Other.... I can answer for the cash balance plan, there's actually a little discussed part of the plan that if you retire after 30 years and before age 65, that will boost the amount of annuity you can get with your cash balance. Still haven't found the formula anywhere, but have seen description of this boost....5 years and counting. And as for FHA, you have to collect it for 10 years to max it out....if it's worth having and that's still debatable. -Anonymous- Comment 07/22/07: Given the grain of truth to the idea that at some point a person is"hanging on until retirement", I am not sure, other than the need to work somewhere and perhaps the 25k donation to future health insurance, what advantage there is to reaching retirement, given the pension changes and IBM insurance cost to retirees. Please enlighten me if I have missed something. -significant other- Comment 07/21/07: Regarding terminating the pension plan - termination of a pension plan incurs a 50% tax of the pension funds, thus it is likely IBM or any other large company will terminate a plan unless it is a distress (as in near bankruptcy) termination, in which case the tax is 25%. However, since IBM has a recurring history of violating and stretching the pension and tax laws, the company leadership is fully capable of doing so again. -Anonymous- Comment 07/18/07: i work at east fishkill. ive been with the company 28 years. i remember about 20 years ago reading on the bulletin board at work that ibm had 27 billion in the pension fund. now they say they have 2 billion. to say they screwed the employees is an understatement. they stole our pension, plain and simple. -Anonymous- Comment 07/18/07: I wouldn't be surprised IBM will not only freeze the pension plan on 1/1/2008 but they will terminate it if it saves them money and just give everyone who is vested for a pension the lump sum and be done with it just to save paying the paltry interest credits on the frozen pension balances. -Anonymous- Comment 07/10/07: I called the service center and told them I wanted to continue to recieve my monthly EFT Form. I was asked why and I told the woeman that IBM keeps reducing my Pension through increased costs of medical, etc. I want to know when my Pension is exhausted. I also told her I was concerned because IBM's letter stated that it was expensive to mail all these statements. If IBM wants to share the savings with the retiree community, I might reconsider my position. I also told her that if Sam or Randy had any questions, pleaehave him give me a call. -Anonymous- Comment 06/30/07: IBM achieves an efficiency! In my pension statement received today it says ". . . we will no longer be mailing monthly payment statements effective with your August 1, 2007 statement." This will save postage plus a penny or two for producing the statement itself. It does say that you can request to continue receiving paper every month. -Auld Phart- Comment 06/21/07: I'm no expert, but I thought that Roth IRA money is taxed before being deposited, and the 401k is taxed when it is withdrawn. If you rollover into a Roth I believe you have to pay taxes on the converted money. There may be situations where it makes sense to do this, but you have to look closely at tax implications. -Griff- Comment 06/21/07: Wouldn't it be better to wait to roll the 401K over to a ROTH IRA? I understand it is going to be allowed perhaps later this year?? Anyone know? -Puddintain- Comment 06/20/07: RA'd and TAKING ALL I HAVE...I live in Cambridge MA. Remember a little company called Polaroid? It was every bit the blue chip ibm was. Those employees LOST IT ALL, PENSION , 401K, Health Care..LOST ALL OF IT...! GET IT QUICK, GET IT ALL, GET IT CASH... -RemoteBoy- Comment 06/19/07: Pension? Damn man, I already took several loans on my account to make ends meet. No such thing as a pension. It's over -Mr tAKE A LOAN- Comment 06/13/07: If you get a new job or assimgment in IBM, or a new manager in IBM you are bottom of the barrel. Consider yourself lucky or just plain great if you can swing a PBC "2" first time around. If you were a PBC "2+" or a "1" you think your previous manager would let you go easily? So you wonder why folks are happy being stultified where they are and doing the jobs they have been doing for years? IBM you suck!!!!!!!!! -suckarama2- Comment 06/09/07: Back in the 1970's in the USA we had recessions and a lousy stock market (with the Dow in the low thousands (and maybe even below 1000 at one point I believe)) but somehow the corporate leaders of the USA at that time stood by their employees and still offered them traditional pensions. If it was time to be "competitive" and be greedy to protect themselves then that was surely a time for these executives and CEO's to freeze or even get rid of pensions altogether. Now in the next century with the the USA economy supposedly "strong" and a Dow over 13,000, the corporate leaders now say they definitely have to freeze pensions and do away with traditional and even hybrid cash balance pittance plans. They justify their minds be saying they have to do this to keep their companies' "competitiveand is necessary to control costs". What gives folks? I guess the old guard was less greedy than this new breed of modern day robber baron bastards we have in place now, which undoubtably has Sam P. as a head honcho. I also reckon the old guard in the 1970's were MUCH, MUCH better executives and CEO's who knew truly how to compete and knew things would get better under their watch and leadership without taking away pension benefits from their employees. Not like these bunch of losers we got now who might not even be considered junior executives or CEOs compared to the old guard of yesteryear! Let all the new guard rot in hell. GREEDY bastards all! Let 'em all move out of the USA. -sby_willie- Comment 06/08/07: Yes, you can rollover the "cash balance" pension, in addition to your 401k money, into one "Rollover IRA". I was laid off from IBM STG on 12/4/2006, and have rolled over my pension "lump sum" and 401k into one "TD Ameritrade" rollover IRA. I'm even making money in it holding 'puts' on IBM, options which rise in value as the underlying stock goes down- the last two days have been great! -aLayoffVictim- Comment 06/06/07: "I just got laid off right after vesting ..." I was RA'ed Nov '06, soon after vesting (5 yrs) in the pension plan. I opened a Schwab IRA account for the rollovers, and rolled both my 401K and my pension into it. ... I'm currently collecting unemployment and "retraining" for my next career. When I'm done with school and working again, I'm going to gradually convert the rollover (regular) IRA money into my existing ROTH IRA (by paying income taxes on it). ... Don't leave any money at IBM. There are much better options available. -Movin' On- Comment 06/06/07: I just got laid off right after vesting in the pension plan. Can I roll the small 5 years worth of pension into my 401K? I am 37 so I still need to work... -Anonymous- Comment 06/06/07: Maybe worth posting again for all those being cut. This is what I found out being cut in April: 1) Call the Employees Service Center (ESC) asap. They will assign you a benefits coordinator. That's the person you work with for your pension and medical choices. This can take a while to make contact so you need to get this started as soon as you can. 2) The estimator tool is very close but not precise. The ESC needs to schedule an official calculation of retirement benefits. (My official one was $1 more than the estimator.) 3) They send you a package with your pension choice (you told the coordinator). Sign and return asap too. 4) It can take a month or more to get your pension started so make sure you have cash in the meantime. It is retroactive to your effective date though. 5) Be aware. Retirement is effective at the end of the month BUT you will get the first paycheck of that month and your manager has your last paycheck (maybe separation check too) in their desk. You are off the payroll system after that first check. Make your 401K deduction choice far enough ahead to be in that last check. 6) There is a lot of "jiggling" with your name on lists. Off this list...on that list. It takes time to settle. 7) Make every Dr. appointment before you are off the system. Order all Rx drugs too. See that dermatologist you always wanted. Do it while you are still on the active list. 8) Medical: a) I chose TMP/COBRA. This continues my
current plan choices. Otherwise, I would have had to sign up for all
new plans under the retiree choices. See netbenefits to see the retiree
choices. 9) Get organized: 10) GUL - Maybe you signed up for a lot of extra insurance so your family would have money if you died and didn't get a pension. Now is the time to reduce that - you got the pension. 11) I recommend the 100% spouse replacement option for your pension. Discuss it with your spouse. 12) Discuss it all with your spouse. This is a big deal and they need to be involved. 13) I called Vanguard to set up a rollover IRA of my
401K. I got the accounts,etc ready to accept the money. 14) I transferred my 401K to a Vanguard IRA. Go on the
401K website and follow the prompts to do a rollover. Make sure it's
a ROLLOVER! As you fill out the steps in the request, you will get to
a point 15) Medical, dental,etc is not automatically taken from your retirement check. You need to fill in the forms to make that happen. More time passes...you will get a bill in the mail for those things until the auto-deduction kicks in. 16) FYI - hopefully not soon a) your pension and your wife's part of it come from different accounts. If you die, your wife needs to contact the ESC asap so her part can start. Meanwhile, a check or 2 of yours has come but you are not around anymore. That money has to be returned to IBM. (Only an accountant could love this system...) 17) Got any old stock options? They time out soon after you leave (90 days). Check the web site. 18) Getting
a retirement gift? Went online and didn't see anything you liked or
the one you liked was discontinued? You have a year to claim it. Check
every couple of weeks. The selection changes. Comment 06/04/07: But somehow our IBM executives know when to sell and take their stock options and not take such a big hit on their taxes. They call it "tax planning". Why are they so special and know when to do it to maximize their benefit? American royalty perhaps alive and well in IBM? And for those employees that have stock options why is it basically a crap shoot on taxes when you decide or have to exercise your options? Insider trading? Go figure! -sby_willie- Comment 06/04/07: To anonymous who wants to sell stock.... No one here knows your financial situation, so any advice will be poor advice. When I sold my stock, I sold it in one big lump. It resulted in a big tax hit at the end of the year. About 1/3 of the gain on the stock will have to go to taxes. That is the gain, not the overall sale. Selling in small chunks can add broker fees or transaction fees, in addition to the taxes. Spreading it out over multiple years may reduce taxes, but opens you up to the possibility that the stock price could go down. Of course, it could go up also. No one can predict the stock price, or know your personal financial situation. If it is a lot of money, consider spending a few hundred dollars on a financial adviser. -Anonymous- Comment 06/03/07: Advice for employees planning to sell stock: - Remember that buying or selling stock should be an objective decision, not an emotional decision. Do you need the money now? Do you anticipate that the stock price will decline soon? Do you have too much of your savings in one investment? You won't send anyone a message by selling your handful of shares now. Your first priority should be what makes most financial sense for you and your family. - If you sell stock which you purchased within the past 12 months (which not the case for Anonymous) you will have a "short term" gain taxed at your current marginal tax rate, which may be higher than the 15% capital gains tax rate that is now in effect for "long term" investments. (This assumes that you are in fact selling at a profit.) - If you are selling stock for a short-term gain, consider your anticipated earnings this year versus next year. If you expect to be retired or "between jobs" next year, you may be in a lower tax bracket then. For Anonymous, you will probably owe the 15% Long Term Capital Gain tax either way. Remember to set aside money to pay that tax bill in April of the following year. - Selling stocks in many small lots will likely incur higher commissions costs than selling all your stock at once. However, selling all your stock at once will guarantee that the stock price will rise soon after you sell it. (Some corollary of Murphy's Law.) I'm joking of course. - Take any advice you read on the Internet with a grain of salt - including this advice. -Employee_and_Stockholder- Comment 06/03/07: Cash it now while it's still high from the IBM buy back. This would be a good idea for all employee's and stockholders to dump their IBM stock now. Hit em where it hurts, in the stock market. I sold everything when I was laid off in November and I still don't regret it. -Anonymous- Comment 06/03/07: I accumulated stock for about 5 years. Not the past two years. What advise do you have - sell it all at once or some each month or some each year? What strategy is best to cash in the stock? -Anonymous- Comment 05/24/07: Alfred, be sure you check out the IBMPENSION board on Yahoo for info. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/messages -being_flushed- Comment 05/24/07: I retired from IBM in 1995 after about 30 years service. For some years now it has become extremely difficult to receive the refunds on my IBM Medical Policy. I live overseas but some of my former colleagues in the USA tell me the same. I would like to exchange ideas/opinions with others having the same problem. Perhaps there is a good course of action. Thanks -Alfred Inselberg aiisreal@math.tau.ac.il- Comment 05/20/07: Question for Janet Krueger: In my Cooper settlement package there is a number called 'Age Reduction Factor' which is multiplied on your benefit after it is calculated using the formula in the Settlement document. Since (in my case) the factor was 0.49, it cut my benefit in half. Any idea where this factor comes from? Thanks. -Bear_in_NH- Sorry, no. I have not done a detailed analysis of how each share of the settlement is calculated or what factors are used. I would suggest you send a written inquiry to class counsel; include both your question and a copy of what you are looking at. His address is: Douglas R. Sprong, Korein Tillery, LLC P.O. Box 4310, Fairview Heights, IL 62208. Hope that helps! Janet Krueger, Rochester, Mn- Comment 05/16/07: Any comments on the recently announced DCPP change to fund selection for Canadian IBMers? Usually when a change is made to the benefits, there is a "screw you" to the employees in there somewhere...just want to know what the gotcha is this time (i.e. where it will cost us) -Anonymous- Comment 05/12/07: > Question for Janet Krueger: I got my Cooper v IBM paperwork. It tells me that I can either select "Single Annuity" or "50% Joint Option" payout. I only have a vested rights pension; because I missed full pension on account of being sold to another company. When I elected to take what I could, I chose the "100% joint restore" option which pays my wife the full payment after I'm dead; However, this settlement document doesn't seem to offer a lump payout or a 100% restore option payout in my case. Did I read this wrong? Will IBM oblige me or not? -thinker- IBM will only provide the payout options that were provided in the settlement agreement; please be assured that the 100% selection option you took on your base pension will not be changed by the option you take for the Cooper settlement. If you did not keep a copy of your base pension paperwork, you may want to call Fidelity and get a copy now, so you can file it for your spouse along with a copy of your Cooper settlement papers, so that your spouse will know exactly how much to expect if you die first. Hopefully whoever is handling IBM's pension trust fund at that time will do the calculations correctly, but it can't hurt to leave your spouse with the paperwork they would need if the amounts end up wrong. -Janet Krueger Rochester, MN- Comment 05/12/07: > So its now almost June and the new pension program goes in affect at the end of this year. We as IBMrs STILL do not have a tool for doing any sort of planning for a retirement date after /1/2008. Its absurd that the announcement of the new program came over a year ago and we still dont have a way to do a accurate forecast of what retirement looks like. Well actually I do it looks bad since I wasnt old enough or in service at IBM long enough to not be royally screwed by the new plan. -still wondering- IBM can legally reduce your future pension benefit accruals to nothing at any time, which is basically what they have announced with the planned freeze on 1/1/2008. If you do a retirement forecast with a planned retirement date of 1/1/2008, that is probably a fairly accurate projection of what you would get by staying at IBM and retiring later. The only way to earn any substantial retirement benefits after that, in a form that can be relied on for retirement planning, would be to lock them into a negotiated union contract -- perhaps you should start explaining this to your coworkers, as over 50% of you would need to be on the same page to make this happen! -Janet Krueger Rochester, MN- Comment 05/12/07: > My Cooper settlement is supposedly $35/month but they assume my wife is my same age. When they get the papers with her actual age, I expect this will be cut but I don't know how to do this projection myself. -Auld Phart- If the projection will impact your decision about which option to take, call Cooper Settlement Claims Administration at 1-866-716-4098 and tell them you need an estimate based on your wife's birth date. You might have to do some arguing and insist on talking to a manager to get the information you want, as the pnone operators won't find it in their database and someone will have to do some work to figure it out. If it won't change your decision, since it probably won't change your benefit by more than a dollar or two a month, then send back the paperwork now. -Janet Krueger Rochester, MN- Comment 05/12/07: I do see that my retirement change has included the SMALL increase as a result of the Cooper settlement BUT the lump sum amount has dropped by about 15K. So what have I actually gained??? I'll have to live into my 100's to make up the difference. WHAT'S THE STORY HERE!?!?!?!? -Confused- Comment 05/12/07: Thanks Kathi and Janet (and all others) who took on IBM. I'm grateful for the small amount that I am going to receive. -Retiree- Comment 05/10/07: So its now almost June and the new pension program goes in affect at the end of this year. We as IBMrs STILL do not have a tool for doing any sort of planning for a retirement date after 1/1/2008. Its absurd that the announcement of the new program came over a year ago and we still dont have a way to do a accurate forecast of what retirement looks like. Well actually I do it looks bad since I wasnt old enough or in service at IBM long enough to not be royally screwed by the new plan. -still wondering- Comment 05/9/07: For all those people who are complaining about how little the pension settement is to them: you should THANK Kathi Cooper (and others behind the scenes like Janet Krueger too) that she stood up for YOU and fought to get you SOMETHING that IBM was able to legally STEAL and TAKE AWAY away from you!!!! Almost all of you who complain are spineless morons. Why not complain to the real ENEMY which is IBM!?!? Keep reminding those bastards how unfair it still is to you! You folks who are complaining or are being factitious about the settement make me puke. -Thanks_Kathi- Comment 05/8/07: Question for Janet Krueger: I got my Cooper v IBM paperwork. It tells me that I can either select "Single Annuity" or "50% Joint Option" payout. I only have a vested rights pension; because I missed full pension on account of being sold to another company. When I elected to take what I could, I chose the "100% joint restore" option which pays my wife the full payment after I'm dead; However, this settlement document doesn't seem to offer a lump payout or a 100% restore option payout in my case. Did I read this wrong? Will IBM oblige me or not? -thinker- Comment 05/8/07: Received my Cooper settlement summary today. Base Annuity amount was $45.47. However the next line says 'Settlement Benefit = Base Annuity x Age Reduction Factor'. Age Reduction Factor is .4942 so Base Annuity as of BCD ends up at $22.47 ($45.47 x .4942). My question is where did this 'Age Reduction Factor' comes from? I have read through the legal settlement agreement on the Cooper web site, and while I can find references to the elements of the formula for the 'Base Annuity' amount, I can find no reference to any 'Age Reduction Factor'. In my case it cut my final benefit in half. Do other people see this mystery number appearing in their detail of benefit paperwork? Does anyone know where it comes from? Thanks. -Bear_in_NH- Comment 05/5/07: > To retired in 2004. My benefit was $250 lump sum for my cash balance plan converted in 1999 after 17 years in 2003. -Ron- Once again, we lost the part of the lawsuit against the 1999 cash balance conversion on appeal. Your $250 lump sum was for the plan conversion in 1995, when you would have only had 12 years in... -Janet Krueger Rochester, MN- Comment 05/5/07: My Cooper settlement is supposedly $35/month but they assume my wife is my same age. When they get the papers with her actual age, I expect this will be cut but I don't know how to do this projection myself. -Auld Phart- Comment 05/3/07: I signed my Cooper settlement paperwork and got $7 a month. Whoo Hoo!!! I'm going out to celebrate!! I don't know what I am going to do with so much extra money. IBM screws its retirees once again. -Anonymous- Comment 05/3/07: To retired in 2004. My benefit was $250 lump sum for my cash balance plan converted in 1999 after 17 years in 2003. -Ron- Comment 05/3/07: If the first part of the Cooper settlement ($300M) yielded a certain amount, does it follow that the $1.3 - $1.4B might have yielded roughly 4.5 times that in addition? (For ex., would someone who received $10 a month from the first settlement then receive $55 a month had we been successful in both parts of the suit?) -Mathophobe- Alliance Reply: Yes, you're projections are about right. That's why we had to fight to reach that goal and show IBM that the employees will not stand idly by while they get robbed. We lost the big one, but won the small one. To do nothing would have been worse than the result we got. Comment 05/3/07: Once again, class action lawyers make mega-millions and the little people get peanuts. The class action lawsuit was a huge waste of time. Shame on Janet and Kathi for leading us all to believe this was a big deal. -Anonymous- Alliance Reply: Yes it IS a big deal. Unfortunately, a Reagan appointed circuit court judge ruled against justice for IBM Employees; and the Supreme Court refused to hear our appeal. The Alliance@IBM and its members thank Kathi and Janet for their hard work fighting the good fight... no 'waste of time' about it! Comment 05/2/07: Comment 05/2/07: If you are still employeed with IBM (don't know if that's a good thing) and the settlement has started to be issued, will I hear anything as to the amount that I will receive ? -FedUp- Active employees cannot collect their share of the Cooper settlement until after they leave IBM. They can get an estimate of what their share will be from Fidelity on www.netbenefits.com. -Janet Krueger Rochester, MN- Comment 05/2/07: Wow!! My Cooper settlement letter arrived today. I get (on the 50% J & S) a total of $5.31. I may go buy a new car. What a hoot!! Sad really. -Anonymous- Comment 05/2/07: I retired in 2004 as a band 8 after 38 years. My Cooper settlement is about $29 per month that will be added to my pension check. Are these other amounts like $250 a one shot payment or an ongoing payment? -Retired in 2004- Comment 05/2/07: If you are still employeed with IBM (don't know if that's a good thing) and the settlement has started to be issued, will I hear anything as to the amount that I will receive ? IBMer 23+yrs...actively looking else where. btw I have joined and encourage(as I am doing now) everyone you know.....we need to get this company and this nation back on it's feet! As the Alliance has said, any layoff whether they are large or small, contact the news media...let them know what's going on...because you know management(upper) won't! -FedUp- Comment 05/2/07: > Comment 05/1/07: My Cooper settlement came today. Wow! $250. 17 years of service and in 1999 I was age 39 just missing the cut-off to stay with the traditional pension. Bernie Sanders (Vermont Congressman) was right back in 1999. We really were screwed. 3 years later I was laid off. IBM wins again! The Cooper settlement only covered the 1995 conversion to a pension equity formula. You were much younger then, and not very much impacted by the age discriminatory aspects of it. The 1999 cash balance conversion hurt you much more, but that portion of Cooper was overturned on appeal. That is what the $1.4 billion of the settlement that we did not get would have covered. -Janet Krueger Rochester, MN- Comment 05/2/07: > I'm on the cash balance plan and considering leaving IBM. I have 25 years. If you make 30 years, you become eligible for the enhanced annuity which appears to be about a 20% bump in monthly income should you choose an annuity at seperation. You also keep you FHA credits. Is it worth it? Can you equal the annuity enchancement some other way? Any thoughts would be appreciated. -isitenough- IBM still hasn't finalized the details of their planned pension freeze at the end of this year. I wouldn't count on the FHA credits or the enhanced annuity still being available after that date -- both can be eliminated. That said, I wouldn't base my decision on when to leave IBM on potential pension changes. Do you have another job lined up? Can you support yourself AND buy health insurance on your savings? Do you like your current job and your current management chain? There are LOTS of factors that could be far more expensive for you than the 20% bump in the enhanced annuity! -Janet Krueger Rochester, MN- Comment 05/2/07: > Comment 04/24/07: "the plan will be ammended so that the only payout will be through a single, one time payment, a la cash balance, rather than an annuity." Pension Risk, Is this your speculation or do you have facts to back this up? -No Way- IBM could not do this under current federal ERISA law -- once you are vested in a pension annuity, your employer CANNOT replace it with a lump sum without your permission. Congress did change this for multi-employer pension plans, such as those provided for truckers, in the so-called Pension Protection Act of 2006, but they have not [yet] eliminated the protection for the rest of us... -Janet Krueger Rochester, MN- |
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